Friends of Scouting

[Backroads]

It was brought up that boys and girls have different needs but since it takes so much time to get through all the requirements, etc. that's where the time and focus is but it doesn't interest every boy - different boys have different needs as well. Scouts isn't for everyone but that's how it's treated.

I agree with this, but this has absolutely zilch to do with someone leaving the Church.

[skippy740]

The only person in the ward that should have a calling longer than the Bishop is the Scoutmaster / Cubmaster.

To do scouting "right", you can't have a perpetual revolving door on your scouting leaders. Then it gets implemented POORLY.

My ward:

- I've been cubmaster for nearly 3 years, and I teach Den Chief training on the district level now.

- My Webelos leader has served over 5 years and also teaches Webelos leaders on a district level.

- My Wolf den leader has served also for over 3 years.

My son is in another ward (outside my stake & outside the BSA council boundaries). I went to his Blue & Gold banquet on Tuesday night. Here's the synopsis:

- No pledge of Allegiance. (This is the BSA... and no pledge?)

- No one stood for the National Anthem when the scouts sang it in sign language... well, I did.

- No one appears to be "trained" based on the absence of the patch from their uniforms. Okay, there was one leader who had 4 rows of "leadership knots"... but he wasn't helping anything. He just seemed to 'be there'.

- No parent recognition for cub scout ranks being earned.

- No one was helping to control the meeting or run the meeting so that it would end on time (okay, that's more of a personal pet peeve).

- Parents were giving the prayers... when it's a primary activity, it should be the boys.

- The boys were playing ball before helping to clean up from their activities... and no leaders correcting the behavior, as though it was the leader's job to clean up. I helped to correct this... and my daughter said that I was "commanding" them. Well, yeah, that's the way it works... and most of the boys responded by helping to clean up all the popped balloons from the earlier activity.

I may be nit-picking on a few of these, but the top two REALLY bugged me. I sent an email about it and asked that it be forwarded. My son doesn't live with me right now, but he deserves to have TRAINED LEADERS. These leaders SEEM to be anything but "trained".

I'm making plans right now to have my children move in with me for the next school year. I was convinced that they were better off with their mother... and right now, I'm not sure that's good for them long-term.

Scouting works best with the entire family, with leaders who are dedicated to making it a success. I'm using my son's ward & experience to show what can happen with the "revolving door" and "temporary nature" of most church callings gets into the LDS scouting program.

BTW, no matter what anyone says... it's not "one hour a week". :)

Edited February 27, 2014 by skippy740

[Wingnut]

The only person in the ward that should have a calling longer than the Bishop is the Scoutmaster / Cubmaster.

I agree with everything you said except for this. I agree that a Scoutmaster/Cubmaster should have a long calling. I don't think it's the only person in the ward, though. :) Other callings I can think of that can/should have a longer tenure than bishop:

-Young Women President

-Young Men President

-Ward clerk

-Executive Secretary (possibly)

[Guest]

You = preaching.

Me = choir.

See, I didn't know this. I don't know much about Scouting outside the USA, which is why I made sure to include the word "likely" in my above comment. Thanks for the perspective...it helps add to that aspect of the conversation!

More info -

Girl Scouts of the Philippines is also a thriving organization in the Philippines although not as big as the BSP. Schools also use the GSP program - but a lot of them don't. Why? Because, Scouting is not compulsory, and historically, the boys eagerly join the Scouting Program from beginning to end whereas girls are either not interested or do not continue with the program. This makes schools think that the GSP program is not being tailored well to the needs of girls so they just drop it.

The Dept of Education has a Scouting drive - where they do a lot of programs to encourage children in schools to participate in Scouting. They give lots of incentives and are very active in national and international activities - such as jamborees, leadership training, etc. But even then, girls are not signing up.

My high school had a Girl Scouts program and I did scouting for a year. I didn't like it. It was just not interesting to me. We did knot tying and had this contest and I'm like... whatever. Whereas, the boys were spending weekends tying all kinds of ropes to win the contest. So, I don't know. I was 12, so I can't tell you any deep insights to the GSP program any more than my 12-year-old impression of it. So, the Church not having a GS program but having a BS one doesn't trigger any protest bone in my body.

Edited February 27, 2014 by anatess

[Wingnut]

...Scouting is not compulsory, and historically, the boys eagerly join the Scouting Program from beginning to end whereas girls are either not interested or do not continue with the program. This makes schools think that the GSP program is not being tailored well to the needs of girls so they just drop it.

That's not unique to the Philippines. It's endemic in the States as well, within Girl Scouting. I know this from my own years as a girl in Girl Scouting, as well as my current role as a troop leader.

My high school had a Girl Scouts program and I did scouting for a year. I didn't like it. It was just not interesting to me. We did knot tying and had this contest and I'm like... whatever. Whereas, the boys were spending weekends tying all kinds of ropes to win the contest. So, I don't know. I was 12, so I can't tell you any deep insights to the GSP program any more than my 12-year-old impression of it.

Sounds like you probably didn't starting Girl Scouts until you were older, and I can see how it would be a turn-off. I stuck with Scouting because I was in it since kindergarten and I loved it. If I had started later, I might not have gotten as hooked.

[Guest]

Sounds like you probably didn't starting Girl Scouts until you were older, and I can see how it would be a turn-off. I stuck with Scouting because I was in it since kindergarten and I loved it. If I had started later, I might not have gotten as hooked.

No, we have Scouts in Elementary School too. I was just talking in high school. The Scouts in my Elementary School is under the Home Economics class, so it's just part of Home Ec for the whole year, not an activity of its own. We wear uniforms on Friday only, so GS is only on Fridays. But, with it being in Home Ec - it's all just one class - and it's just another class to get a good grade for.

[Palerider]

I agree with everything you said except for this. I agree that a Scoutmaster/Cubmaster should have a long calling. I don't think it's the only person in the ward, though. :) Other callings I can think of that can/should have a longer tenure than bishop:

-Young Women President

-Young Men President

-Ward clerk

-Executive Secretary (possibly)

I agree with what your saying. We do have a tendency to change things too quickly in regards to callings. As long as the person doesn't burn out we need to leave them in callings longer. Including the others not on your list. Unless they are not doing anything in their calling.

We have two units that meet in our building and we combined our scout troops to have one nice troop. I mean functioning cubs and scouts and committee. These leaders have been in their callings for quite awhile now.

[MarginOfError]

I agree with what your saying. We do have a tendency to change things too quickly in regards to callings. As long as the person doesn't burn out we need to leave them in callings longer. Including the others not on your list. Unless they are not doing anything in their calling.

We have two units that meet in our building and we combined our scout troops to have one nice troop. I mean functioning cubs and scouts and committee. These leaders have been in their callings for quite awhile now.

Someone should notify my stake president, who directly advised all of the bishops in our stake that no one should hold a single calling for more than three years.

:facepalm:

[Palerider]

Someone should notify my stake president, who directly advised all of the bishops in our stake that no one should hold a single calling for more than three years.

:facepalm:

In our stake it's just the opposite of what you said.

[Jenamarie]

Someone should notify my stake president, who directly advised all of the bishops in our stake that no one should hold a single calling for more than three years.

:facepalm:

My husband was ward financial clerk in our old ward for 9 years under 3 bishops. He was only released because the new EQ pres. wanted him in his presidency. That lasted 3 months until we moved.

[Guest]

I agree with what your saying. We do have a tendency to change things too quickly in regards to callings. As long as the person doesn't burn out we need to leave them in callings longer. Including the others not on your list. Unless they are not doing anything in their calling.

We have two units that meet in our building and we combined our scout troops to have one nice troop. I mean functioning cubs and scouts and committee. These leaders have been in their callings for quite awhile now.

My husband was the 11-year-old scout leader for 5 years. He got released because he went back to college and he can't get out of Wednesday class schedule. He tried to negotiate with the Bishop to move Scouting to a different day - he only had 2 boys at that time with one about to move to YM in 2 months and the next boy not joining 11yo scouts until 3 months after the 2nd boy moves out of 11yo scouts. But, I guess it has to be Wednesday or they think he has served long enough because he got released instead.

He had a super excellent program in conjunction with the great Cub Scout program. The boys leave cubs with at least an arrow of light and they leave 11yo with at least 1st Class. Great foundation for Boy Scouts. But, the Boy Scout program is terrible. None of his 11yo Scouts has gotten Eagle. Granted, his oldest scout is only 17 so there's still time for them to get Eagle. It's just that nobody seems to be working towards getting it.

[Palerider]

My husband was the 11-year-old scout leader for 5 years. He got released because he went back to college and he can't get out of Wednesday class schedule. He tried to negotiate with the Bishop to move Scouting to a different day - he only had 2 boys at that time with one about to move to YM in 2 months and the next boy not joining 11yo scouts until 3 months after the 2nd boy moves out of 11yo scouts. But, I guess it has to be Wednesday or they think he has served long enough because he got released instead.

He had a super excellent program in conjunction with the great Cub Scout program. The boys leave cubs with at least an arrow of light and they leave 11yo with at least 1st Class. Great foundation for Boy Scouts. But, the Boy Scout program is terrible. None of his 11yo Scouts has gotten Eagle. Granted, his oldest scout is only 17 so there's still time for them to get Eagle. It's just that nobody seems to be working towards getting it.

I am far from a scouting expert but I enjoy scouting and try to be involved in some capacity. One of the best things I ever did as a leader in scouting was go to the leader training that was offered and years later I went to Woodbadge Training. I enjoyed that the best of all. I earned my beads back in 1996 and try to be involved. I can't speak for all Bishops but I do know it always bothered me when our Scout Troop wasn't functioning like it should. My councilors and I talked about this for several weeks and finally one of my councilors had an idea and long story short we implemented his idea and it worked out. Our troop got better.

I know church sponsored troops struggle at times and it will if no one has a scouting mind and keeps pushing.

[Wingnut]

I agree with what your saying. We do have a tendency to change things too quickly in regards to callings. As long as the person doesn't burn out we need to leave them in callings longer. Including the others not on your list. Unless they are not doing anything in their calling.

We have two units that meet in our building and we combined our scout troops to have one nice troop. I mean functioning cubs and scouts and committee. These leaders have been in their callings for quite awhile now.

There is one young lady in my ward who is almost 17 (in a few weeks). She is on her fourth YW President. Having been one of those four, and having been released abruptly (5 minutes before Sacrament meeting started) and without good reason (great relationship with girls, had been in less than 2.5 years, wasn't moving, wasn't having a baby, etc.), it makes me absolutely livid. The youth, more than any other group, need non-parental adults that they can trust and build relationships with. I worked so hard to do that for my girls. It's not fair to them to toss their leaders around willy-nilly.

A quick rundown of my ward. I've been here just over 6.5 years. In that time, we have had:

-four bishops

-five YW Presidents

-four RS Presidents

-at least four EQ Presidents

-five Primary Presidents

-seven or eight (seriously, I've lost count) YM Presidents

So maybe you (rhetorical) can understand why this is justifiably something about which I say I am "absolutely livid."

Edited February 27, 2014 by Wingnut

[Wingnut]

Sorry...I really went off on a tangent there. This is something that really bothers me, obviously.

But it has little or nothing to do with the thread and topic at hand.

Carry on!

[Guest]

I am far from a scouting expert but I enjoy scouting and try to be involved in some capacity. One of the best things I ever did as a leader in scouting was go to the leader training that was offered and years later I went to Woodbadge Training. I enjoyed that the best of all. I earned my beads back in 1996 and try to be involved. I can't speak for all Bishops but I do know it always bothered me when our Scout Troop wasn't functioning like it should. My councilors and I talked about this for several weeks and finally one of my councilors had an idea and long story short we implemented his idea and it worked out. Our troop got better.

I know church sponsored troops struggle at times and it will if no one has a scouting mind and keeps pushing.

Training! Definitely! Several Cub Scout Leaders and my husband, the 11yo Scout Leader went to Woodbadge together! My husband is super duper proud to wear his woodbadge neckerchief holder thingee... He loved woodbadge.

But he grew up in a really good scouting program. No, he didn't get eagle because they moved from California to Florida before he figured out his eagle project and he went on a rebellion stage for having left everything familiar to him. But he has lots of fond memories of his Scouting days... Canoeing down the Colorado for 3 days with nothing besides what would fit in his backpack... he ran out of food on day 2 and had to hunt for squirrels and such to eat. Can't fit his tent and sleeping bag, so he brought his sleeping bag and dug up a place to sleep and covered himself with leaves and that kind of thing... He also went hiking up a mountain with the troop and ended up in the newspaper for preventing a wildfire after they saw stuff burning and the entire troop went around the burning area digging a ditch...

None of that happens in our Scouting Program here. Camping is a truck load of kitchen equipment and cooler upon cooler of food and drinks and DVD players...

[Palerider]

There is one young lady in my ward who is almost 17 (in a few weeks). She is on her fourth YW President. Having been one of those four, and having been released abruptly (5 minutes before Sacrament meeting started) and without good reason (great relationship with girls, had been in less than 2.5 years, wasn't moving, wasn't having a baby, etc.), it makes me absolutely livid. The youth, more than any other group, need non-parental adults that they can trust and build relationships with. I worked so hard to do that for my girls. It's not fair to them to toss their leaders around willy-nilly.

A quick rundown of my ward. I've been here just over 6.5 years. In that time, we have had:

-four bishops

-five YW Presidents

-four RS Presidents

-at least four EQ Presidents

-five Primary Presidents

-seven or eight (seriously, I've lost count) YM Presidents

So maybe you (rhetorical) can understand why this is justifiably something about which I say I am "absolutely livid."

I can understand your concern.....just for my own curiosity ....did those Bishops move away ??

[Wingnut]

I can understand your concern.....just for my own curiosity ....did those Bishops move away ??

I live in an area that attracts a lot of grad student families (medical, dental, law, podiatry), as well as medical residents. We get nearly a whole new ward every three years or so, because about 1/3 of it turns over every summer. The last few years have been not as bad, because we've actually had a fair amount of permanent families move in.

But when I first moved here, a new bishop had been called two weeks earlier. He had a solid steady job here, and he and his wife were raising their four kids with Cleveland as home. They'd been here for a few years already, and (I think) had moved here for his job. That was July. The following March, he was released after accepting a job in California. Super Awesome Bishop was called. Just over four years later, the ward boundaries were realigned and he was dumped into a neighboring ward (a year after that, he learned he had stage 4 cancer, so perhaps it was for the best). When he was released, a new bishop was called, who had only been in our ward for two months. Seventeen months later, he was released after accepting a job in Qatar (yes, Qatar). And now we're on bishop #4, who, when he was asked to serve, told the stake president that he wasn't happy with his job and was looking for new work, including out of state. They said, "oh that's okay."

[Palerider]

I live in an area that attracts a lot of grad student families (medical, dental, law, podiatry), as well as medical residents. We get nearly a whole new ward every three years or so, because about 1/3 of it turns over every summer. The last few years have been not as bad, because we've actually had a fair amount of permanent families move in.

But when I first moved here, a new bishop had been called two weeks earlier. He had a solid steady job here, and he and his wife were raising their four kids with Cleveland as home. They'd been here for a few years already, and (I think) had moved here for his job. That was July. The following March, he was released after accepting a job in California. Super Awesome Bishop was called. Just over four years later, the ward boundaries were realigned and he was dumped into a neighboring ward (a year after that, he learned he had stage 4 cancer, so perhaps it was for the best). When he was released, a new bishop was called, who had only been in our ward for two months. Seventeen months later, he was released after accepting a job in Qatar (yes, Qatar). And now we're on bishop #4, who, when he was asked to serve, told the stake president that he wasn't happy with his job and was looking for new work, including out of state. They said, "oh that's okay."

Then of course with each new Bishop they feel the need to "change things" and when you call and release one the revolving door starts.

I only served 3 yrs my first time and was released because of boundary changes. My family and I were moved into a Branch. It was probably best for us. Our kids were young and my wife had gone thru a breakdown two yrs before this. Six years later when called to serve as BP the Stake Pres told me not to get in a hurry and change things. That's was good advice. I learned a lot during my second time and did leave people in their callings longer unless I felt a strong impression to do otherwise. I am far from perfect but I did the best I could.

[mnn727]

I agree with everything you said except for this. I agree that a Scoutmaster/Cubmaster should have a long calling. I don't think it's the only person in the ward, though. :) Other callings I can think of that can/should have a longer tenure than bishop:

-Young Women President

-Young Men President

-Ward clerk

-Executive Secretary (possibly)

-Executive Secretary -- NO!!! its a thankless job, you are the one person no one wants to see walking their way or on their caller id.

Brother M, our last Ward scoutmaster (now age 71) had the calling 22 years, his assistant scout master of 12 years recently took over (about 2 years ago). And that's really how it should be if you have a good scout leader.

Brother M thought he was going to die with the calling, but his assistant is so good he didn't have to.

Edited February 27, 2014 by mnn727

[skippy740]

Interesting blog post about being a "Professional Scouter":

The BSA’s looking for a few good men and women to be professional Scouters « Bryan on Scouting

[Backroads]

I'll tell you one thing, Bryan's right about never being able to find those guys at their desks...

[Wingnut]

Interesting. I clicked through to the job postings. The district executive for my area has a "competitive salary of $34,500."

[Backroads]

Interesting. I clicked through to the job postings. The district executive for my area has a "competitive salary of $34,500."

And this is why I don't always accept the complaints about salaries.

The only DE I know who is "rich" is only rich because he's a retired doctor.

One's living in his friend's basement.

Wandering thoughts of Backroads:

Looks like you can make 36 grand in my council. Now I'm wondering who quit/retired/got in trouble.

And I'm surprised they're not calling me to get my brother's phone number as they've been trying to hire him for years and he can't stand the thought of doing what they do.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Backroads

[Guest]

Interesting. I clicked through to the job postings. The district executive for my area has a "competitive salary of $34,500."

It gets bigger the higher you go.

But usually, when they post salary things in the news that says $200K and such - they don't just count salary. They count benefits and pension plans with it.

There's a post above about how $200K is a lot of money. It is. For a District Executive or a McDonald's Shift Manager... but $200K is peanuts for a Chief Executive and about right for one or two levels down from there. And I'm only talking salary - not counting benefits and such.

Let's put it this way... before I had kids - that was 12 years ago, I was making almost that much. And I was nowhere near Executive. Not even District Executive. I wasn't even management. My direct manager was 4 levels down from CEO. And he made more than me.

So, right now, I'm making peanuts. Because, I opted to go with the work-from-home-with-a-flexible-schedule-pay-per-hour-contract job. I'm very happy with my peanut salary because it fits my life right now. But, if I'm going for a Career Bread and Butter position with my skillset, I'm not going to settle for peanuts.

There's that post above also about the Executives spending BSA funds on first class travel accomodations. Now that I have a beef with. The BSA pays for business class travel, you can use your own money or your Travel Points to upgrade to first class. So, I don't know what the story is on that one - but as a FoS donor, I would investigate that further.

Edited February 28, 2014 by anatess

[mnn727]

Let's put it this way... before I had kids - that was 12 years ago, I was making almost that much. And I was nowhere near Executive. Not even District Executive. I wasn't even management. My direct manager was 4 levels down from CEO. And he made more than me.

Did you work for a non-profit that's only income was through soliciting donations? or did your company actually make or sell something, or offer a service? Cause theres a BIG difference in many of our minds between the two.