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lm0913

Non-Utah Mormon attending BYU

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I'm speechless! I've never know or heard anyone describe fellow Mormons as hedonistic. Big grin or not.

Only at Lds.net I guess.

I'm out of this thread.

Best wishes to the OP.

I guess that depends on your definition of fun, pleasure, and enjoyment.

Outside of the LDS church, I've never met a group of people so focused on having fun.

Whether it's cleaning up after a disaster, getting kids eyes to light up as they're learning something new by making it exciting, bringing what joy they can in times of grief, making friends with strangers to go do a sport or help get a broken car out of a ditch, or devoting their lives to a loving god and making the world better. The "I'd love to!" Attitude manifest in every area of their lives that they can make it.

Dissipation, debauchery, drugs, et al are about misery. At least in my book. They're not fun. Not happiness.

Hedonism is about happiness.

So it really depends on your definition of what makes you happy.

Q

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Huh, I think Wing's bias against Utah Mormons match my bias against Southern California (or any part of California) people (Mormons included as people).

I went to BYU and I'm not from Utah. I was a non-member when I started at BYU. I absolutely loved my BYU years. The social life is great (I'm an extrovert, but sometimes find it hard to adjust to large crowds). I didn't always enjoy the larger events (like dances), but because the wards were so inclusive (your RS president is your roommate and your EQ pres lives across the street), I felt included and a part of a group.

I enjoyed the learning experience at BYU. I have always loved school, but BYU was exceptional to me. To get educated from most professors who are LDS was very unique and special (to me). I loved having opening prayer before football games, some classes, and all the other quirks of being a part of the LDS school. The religious classes alone made my years worth it. The monthly firesides and weekly devotionals (firesides always had some GA and many of the devotionals did too) were awesome. I loved hearing from prophets on a nearly monthly or more basis--aimed at me, my circumstances, and station in life.

If you want negativity, you will find it. I knew girls and guys who didn't dress according to the Honor Code, who lived a lifestyle not in keeping for LDS or the honor code and never "got caught" at it. I knew people who did drugs, drank, and other things. But, it wasn't something I looked for even if I were aware of it. So, it didn't have a negative effect on me to know that Mormons sinned. I met alot of hypocrits, holier than thou, and general snobs. I never allowed their snubs to bother me.

Provo is very much a college town. Crazy full in Fall/Winter semesters. Craziest drivers I've ever seen (Missouri drivers included). The summer semesters are the BEST! Love, love, love the summer I spent there. I still say it was the best summer I've ever had.

So, here is one Non-Utah Mormon who absolutely loved her experience at BYU. I met many, many "Utah Mormons" and they are annoying. But, I've met alot of Utah Mormons in Indiana too. As Dravin said, there many numbers of Mormons in Utah means you will meet more Utah Mormons in Utah than you will in other communities.

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Has anyone here NOT from Utah attended BYU? How did you like it?

I keep hearing about the difference between "utah mormons" and other mormons. Can anyone give a good explanation of this?

I am a recent convert who will be attending law school this fall. BYU is obviously a great option, but I'm wondering how adjusting to life in Provo would be, especially as a non-Utah convert.

Go 4 it!!!! I say you will have a great time and meet many nice people and have great experiece there.

I loved living in Utah I'm orignially from Ny and live in Florida now and most of my life and I'm a Jewish convert. People are people theirs good and not so good in each of us.

Not all who live in Utah are Lds. And just like every where alse some live the gospel totally, some live it partically, some dont live it!! Also we are all on different levels spiritually, physically, emotionally etc....

You have your choice with whom you will be friends with in utah and hang around with just like we do if we lived anywhere alse. I am still best friends with my first roommate I met at the Y she was a convert and lived in Ca. Went to Ricks first which is now byu Idaho. then byu Provo and it's been along time ago. I was out there 80/81

There is a small % of non Lds going to Byu. I had my step sister and a gf go out with me neither were lds. Utah is not all Mormon!!!

Again I loved my days at BYU!!! I highly recommend it!!! I hope you go for it, please let us know if you do. It is also a beautiful state but I believe most are. There is beauty everywhere we just need to open up our eyes.

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Wherever you go you will find what you're looking for.

I'm a transplant from California to Utah. I love California. I love Utah. And, please forgive me, but I live in Happy Valley (Utah County). And I love it here.

In my younger years I attended BYU, Dixie College, Utah Valley State College, and finally graduated from the University of Utah about 16 years ago. All these Utah schools have their negatives and positives. If you're looking for it, you will find it.

I have traveled extensively in Europe, been to Asia, and visited a great number of States. It's always nice to come home to Utah. And in my experience Utah Drivers are fairly mild compared to other areas.

Every single person who visits Utah is going to have a unique experience. Negative or positive. You get to decide what it's going to be.

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I realize my perception will be different because the experience I had in Utah was different. I am from Southern Alberta Canada where we also have a large percentage of latter day saints. I served my mission in Utah and I loved it. I can honestly say that I don't think "Utah Mormons" are any different on average than simply "Mormons" in general.

The main difference I observed is that because Utah was settled by the saints and historically has consisted of mostly church members, it is assumed that everyone is a member. This assumption is not exclusive to members of the church either. The non-members often call out the members for hypocrisy because of what other non-members, or less active members are up to. In Utah the membership is judged by what the society as a whole is up to, whereas in other places I've lived church life and secular life are more easily separated.

At the same time the opposite also holds true; those who know better "feel" more judged in everything they do because they know others who hold high standards are likely to be watching. It can be difficult to "hide" from the church in Utah.

As for Utah Mormons being more self indulgent or judgmental than anywhere else I call Bull Crap. I met many of the most diligent and hard working people who honour their covenants there.

Observations I had as a missionary about Utah/Non-Utah interactions:

Missionaries (especially from the eastern states) felt a particular need to "rebel" by drinking colas to protest against the notion that is inappropriate. I can see how this concept is mormon culture, but not doctrine. Even so it is not a big deal.

Until they get a few years of college, Utahns do tend to be under educated... the kids never seem to be in school. Late start Wednesdays, early out Fridays, Canada is a favourite (cough) state in the union.

A few strange colloquial sayings like "might could" (I think it means maybe) and a "couple three" (possibly means two or three, or perhaps six :confused:) or calling what I'd call an overpass a viaduct. You get used to it.

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Until they get a few years of college, Utahns do tend to be under educated... the kids never seem to be in school. Late start Wednesdays, early out Fridays, Canada is a favourite (cough) state in the union.

My husband attended one semester of college in Utah. When he told people he was from Maine, he was actually asked, "Oh what country is that in?"

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My husband attended one semester of college in Utah. When he told people he was from Maine, he was actually asked, "Oh what country is that in?"

I spent part of my mission in Maryland, and spend pretty much my entire workday talking on the phone to people all over the country. I'd say 80-90% of the people I talk to from the east don't realize there's a difference between Idaho, Iowa and Ohio. As far as they're concerned all three are the same "flyover" state.

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While at BYU, when asked from whence I hail, my response of "Indiana" caused a "Cool! East coast!" I had to explain the difference between east coast and midwest. I can't tell you how many times that conversation occurred. Basically, anything east of the Mississippi was considered "east coast."

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I get that now, Beefche. So many of the people in my ward are here temporarily (anywhere from 3-6 years), and most are from Utah, Washington state, California, or Idaho. They love living on the East Coast. Cleveland, if anything, is sometimes referred to as being on the North Coast, because of Lake Erie.

Still though, in both of the above examples, the people you were talking to still knew those states were in their own country.

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You know what guys... that is not limited to Utah...

A lot Floridians think Toronto is a State too. And they will look at you like you've grown another head when you tell them that Georgia used to be a part of the USSR.

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While at BYU, when asked from whence I hail, my response of "Indiana" caused a "Cool! East coast!" I had to explain the difference between east coast and midwest. I can't tell you how many times that conversation occurred. Basically, anything east of the Mississippi was considered "east coast."

See, I would have told them, "No, it's part of the Old Northwest." It would have caused some interesting reactions.

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While at BYU, when asked from whence I hail, my response of "Indiana" caused a "Cool! East coast!" I had to explain the difference between east coast and midwest. I can't tell you how many times that conversation occurred. Basically, anything east of the Mississippi was considered "east coast."

Come to think of it, my mom did that. I was living in Oregon when I was accepted to BYU (where I attended only one year). My roommate was from Wyoming. When I received the information packet about her and shared it with my mom, she said, "Oh, well, at least you're both West Coast girls -- that'll give you some things in common!" I grew up in Orange County, CA, along the coast, and then only 2.5 hours from Oregon's coastline. I pointed out to my mom that WY was land-locked. She said, "well, I just mean the western United States. Easterners are different."

My parents live in Connecticut now.

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I didn't get a lot of geography in school. And I think the kids now days don't get much either. This is not just a Utah problem! Utah actually has a very good educational system. This is a problem across the entire United States. And it isn't only a lack of knowledge about the US, it's a lack of knowledge about the entire World. And, it's sad.

In order to combat this lack in my own home, I had a huge map of the United States tacked up on our dining room wall, and next to it a huge map of the World. My husband and I would randomly ask our kids to find ____ on the map. They seemed to enjoy it. Those maps are still there today, and the grandkids get asked to find ___. When I babysit my two little grand daughters while their parents are off to some exotic place for their business, we will look to see where they are on the map. They are still too young to understand the perspective of distance, but that will come in time.

BTW, those maps are not the most beautiful thing to hang on my dining room wall. But, I didn't care back then, and I still don't care. I want my children/grandchildren to have an understanding of their world.

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I didn't get a lot of geography in school. And I think the kids now days don't get much either. This is not just a Utah problem! Utah actually has a very good educational system. This is a problem across the entire United States. And it isn't only a lack of knowledge about the US, it's a lack of knowledge about the entire World. And, it's sad.

But surely kids learn the names of all fifty states before the end of elementary school?

In order to combat this lack in my own home, I had a huge map of the United States tacked up on our dining room wall, and next to it a huge map of the World. My husband and I would randomly ask our kids to find ____ on the map. They seemed to enjoy it. Those maps are still there today, and the grandkids get asked to find ___. When I babysit my two little grand daughters while their parents are off to some exotic place for their business, we will look to see where they are on the map. They are still too young to understand the perspective of distance, but that will come in time.

What a great idea! I think I might do this!

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I didn't get a lot of geography in school. And I think the kids now days don't get much either. This is not just a Utah problem! Utah actually has a very good educational system. This is a problem across the entire United States. And it isn't only a lack of knowledge about the US, it's a lack of knowledge about the entire World. And, it's sad.

In order to combat this lack in my own home, I had a huge map of the United States tacked up on our dining room wall, and next to it a huge map of the World. My husband and I would randomly ask our kids to find ____ on the map. They seemed to enjoy it. Those maps are still there today, and the grandkids get asked to find ___. When I babysit my two little grand daughters while their parents are off to some exotic place for their business, we will look to see where they are on the map. They are still too young to understand the perspective of distance, but that will come in time.

BTW, those maps are not the most beautiful thing to hang on my dining room wall. But, I didn't care back then, and I still don't care. I want my children/grandchildren to have an understanding of their world.

I wondered if this problem extended beyond Utah, but I didn't want to make the assumption since my experience was with the people of Utah. You are right that there are many dimensions of education and geography is only one.

Any way I love the people in Utah... I would seriously consider moving there myself, but I'm a proud Canadian and my family and life are here.

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But surely kids learn the names of all fifty states before the end of elementary school?

Right. You would think so. Have you ever watched Jay Leno's "On the Street" questions to random people? Some of these people are college educated and still can't answer simple questions as to who the vice President is, where such is such is, etc. I find it amazing. And not in a good way amazing.

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But surely kids learn the names of all fifty states before the end of elementary school?!

We learned the name & location & Capitol of every country in the world (and major geographical features) when I was in middle school (Finland Helsinki, Oman Muscat, Painted Desert, Marianas Trench, etc...and could write them in on a blank outline map)... But NOT the name/location/Capitol of all 50 states!

Our music teacher, in elementary however, taught us the 50 Nifty United States song... And that has served me in ridiculous good stead over the years. Albeit, I only know them in alphabetical order, so I so entires have to run 2/3s of the way through the song to get to Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee ... Okay. We have 2 states with a "south" in them). Even the SATs at the time had a "list as many states as you can in however many seconds, ready start go!

So I taught my kids that song!!!

(And then hammer in territories, like Guam).

Q

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Maybe its some social equilibrium at play, when people criticize the cultural aspects of Utah. It seems to me that anyone outside Utah is expected to have some kind of awe for the state, because that is where we are told the Saints are and then its reinforced by the stereotypes that anything outside Utah is a mission.

My brother served in the bishopric here a few times, served a mission in Ukraine when they just opened the mission, then when he moved to Utah and they asked for his church resume, he was told, "Oh, that was the mission field, this is different." Ahaha. The atmosphere of the state and most of its citizens, just seemed so cliche to me, as if the cliche was more important than living life as it was. However, as always, there are exceptions and variables that most won't accept or dismiss.

If you look for the negatives, you will find them, sure, but as a Canadian, I was startled when I went to Utah and my expectations of finding Mecca and pleasant people was shattered, then again, I am not that friendly of a person anyway. I spent about a whole day touring Temple Square and the most friendly person I met, was Ray the homeless guy. Everyone else seemed like...oil on water.

I miss the mountains though, but not the crazy drivers or the crazy roads. As if traffic lights telling you to move onto oncoming traffic to merge is safe.

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Yesterday hubby and I drove I-15 from North Ogden in Weber County to the University Parkway Exit in Utah County. That's through most of Weber and Utah counties and all the way through Davis and Salt Lake Counties. On the way down to the freeway I was telling hubby about some of the conversations happening here and mentioned this one. So we decided to county the billboards and what is on them.

491 billboards (we counted both sides if both sides had something on them). We didn't count a board that was empty.

There were Five for plastic surgery. I almost missed one because it wasn't the usual half naked woman and didn't have the usual wording. But....5.

One for tattoo removal. One for derm abrasion. One for laser hair removal. I don't consider these three "surgery."

I can't think through math today so maybe someone else can do the percentage. But 5, or even 8, is not a third.

I know there used to be more but I still doubt it was a third. Sometimes when we're more sensitive to something that's all we seem to see or hear.

EDIT: I know I said I was done with this thread but a day away and an awesome experience yesterday changed my mind just a little bit. :)

Edited by applepansy

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Maybe its some social equilibrium at play, when people criticize the cultural aspects of Utah. It seems to me that anyone outside Utah is expected to have some kind of awe for the state, because that is where we are told the Saints are and then its reinforced by the stereotypes that anything outside Utah is a mission.

My brother served in the bishopric here a few times, served a mission in Ukraine when they just opened the mission, then when he moved to Utah and they asked for his church resume, he was told, "Oh, that was the mission field, this is different." Ahaha. The atmosphere of the state and most of its citizens, just seemed so cliche to me, as if the cliche was more important than living life as it was. However, as always, there are exceptions and variables that most won't accept or dismiss.

If you look for the negatives, you will find them, sure, but as a Canadian, I was startled when I went to Utah and my expectations of finding Mecca and pleasant people was shattered, then again, I am not that friendly of a person anyway. I spent about a whole day touring Temple Square and the most friendly person I met, was Ray the homeless guy. Everyone else seemed like...oil on water.

I miss the mountains though, but not the crazy drivers or the crazy roads. As if traffic lights telling you to move onto oncoming traffic to merge is safe.

Utah has been the "mission field" for years now. The church started calling missionaries to missions in Utah when we lived in Bountiful 20 years ago. I realize it takes some people a long time to change their attitudes but where I live we consider ourselves in the mission field. But then...I have an awesome and unusual ward. :D

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