Accuracy Of The Book Of Mormon

[CrimsonKairos]

You should really see an optometrist about your eyes, Luke.

In alot of your posts, they're rollin' around in your head like hamsters in an exercise wheel (to wit: ). That can't feel good.

[Saab900man]

Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Hey this site helped me alot

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/

[Snow]

Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Undoubtedly you are headed toward a setup but so what.

Specify what you mean by accurate...

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Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

What CK and a-train said.

And I'll ask you a question: How accurate is the Bible? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Find me the burning bush that Moses saw. I'd like proof of the altar that Elijah built that was completely consumed by fire from Heaven. I'd like a shard of the jar in which Jesus turned water to wine...

Do I believe all those things happened, and exist? Absolutely. But because it was an answer to prayer and study, not something someone found and showed me or the world.

Read the BOM. Ask God. He'll tell you.

The Bible is very accurate. And I have links to back this up:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

http://www.carm.org/bible.htm

Oh - so it didn't take long to spring your setup now did it.

1. I don't bother with dishonest hate sites like CARM so that doesn't count,

2. I am uninterested in reading some lengthy apologetic website. Care to make the case yourself and we can debate it?

Okay - I couldn't resist.

I checked the non-CARM website you listed. I only read one line.

It showed (tried to show) that the bible is scientifically accurate because it describes gravitational fields - Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."

Come on PaladinGirl - do you have any evidences that aren't jokes?

[Traveler]

Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

I agree with Snow (surprise) This post appears to lack honesty. Most likely PaladinGirl02 has already made up her mind about the Book of Mormon and will at one time or another prove that she never intended to learn what she thinks she already knows.

All that aside -- the location of the Nephite civilization is not known so it is difficult to make a true and honest scientific comparison but the Book of Mormon begins with a narrative of a 600 BC crossing of the Arabian Peninsula. In that Narrative the Book of Mormon has proven to be the most accurate description of such a crossing existing in Western Civilization for all of the 19th and 20th Century or any document previously existing outside of Arabia. And it is significantly more detailed, exact and accurate than the Bible is concerning the description of a crossing from Egypt to the area now known as Jerusalem.

But we have learned by sad experience that fact seldom stands in the way of or competes with prejudicial (pre-determined) opinion.

I would add on other thing about the Book of Mormon - that is that the so call evidences (scientific and otherwise) that are used to discredit the Book of Mormon also disprove the Bible - which makes me wonder why a Christian would reference and use such arguments.

The Traveler

[Guest Yediyd]

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Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

I agree with Snow (surprise) This post appears to lack honesty. Most likely PaladinGirl02 has already made up her mind about the Book of Mormon and will at one time or another prove that she never intended to learn what she thinks she already knows.

All that aside -- the location of the Nephite civilization is not known so it is difficult to make a true and honest scientific comparison but the Book of Mormon begins with a narrative of a 600 BC crossing of the Arabian Peninsula. In that Narrative the Book of Mormon has proven to be the most accurate description of such a crossing existing in Western Civilization for all of the 19th and 20th Century or any document previously existing outside of Arabia. And it is significantly more detailed, exact and accurate than the Bible is concerning the description of a crossing from Egypt to the area now known as Jerusalem.

But we have learned by sad experience that fact seldom stands in the way of or competes with prejudicial (pre-determined) opinion.

I would add on other thing about the Book of Mormon - that is that the so call evidences (scientific and otherwise) that are used to discredit the Book of Mormon also disprove the Bible - which makes me wonder why a Christian would reference and use such arguments.

The Traveler

You know what Traveler, it all boils down to faith. But what gets me is that these people can whole heartedly believe that an axe handle floated, a fish swallowed a man, and a donkey talked...but refuse to accept the BoM. It takes JUST as much faith to believe the Bible than it does to believe the BoM. (Yediyd shakes head in discust)

[Wyntrewolfe]

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Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Hey this site helped me alot

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/

Darn, I was reading through the posts, hoping no one would post that site. Beat me to it, why don't you?

Here are some questions for anyone that doesn't believe in the Book of Mormon's veracity: If it isn't true:

• How did Joseph Smith (since, obviously, he "wrote" the Book of Mormon) know so much about ancient olive culture as practiced in ancient Israel? (See Jacob 5)
• How did he know about a rare river and valley in Arabia, or about the location of a forested and fertile place along its coastline = Bountiful? (Most people even today laugh at the idea.)
• Why would Smith have the records written on golden plates? The idea made him a laughingstock in the 1800's, but nowadays it's been revealed as a well-established practice for sacred Semitic records.
• Why also would he have claimed to have found them buried in a stone box? Also a well-established practice for Semitic records that no one knew about in 1830.
• Why would he have the hierarchy of the Lamanites be cities over other cities, instead of city, county, state? Accurate, but a completely foreign idea to him.
• Why would Smith originally write in a grammatical structure that, while incorrect and awkward in English, is perfectly correct Hebrew? (e.g., "if/and" instead of "if/then"; the style was changed in later editions to make for more correct English.)
• How could he have a complex description of the weights and measurements of Book of Mormon times that almost exactly matches up to Egyptian weights and measures?
• How in the world could he possibly have written the Book of Mormon using such inticrate examples of chiasmus, a Semetic writing style that's rather too difficult and complex for someone with a third-grade education to emulate?

I'd be fascinated if anyone could explain away the above questions...

[CrimsonKairos]

Satan made him do it.

That's the only explanation other than God inspired Him.

Only problem is, the Book of Mormon's single unifying message is we need Christ as our Savior and Satan/sin is evil.

Satan would have to be an idiot to preach against himself, and Satan ain't no idiot.

A bad man couldn't have fabricated such an inspiring book, and a good man wouldn't have fabricated such an inspiring book.

[Wyntrewolfe]

Satan made him do it.

That's the only explanation other than God inspired Him.

Only problem is, the Book of Mormon's single unifying message is we need Christ as our Savior and Satan/sin is evil.

Satan would have to be an idiot to preach against himself, and Satan ain't no idiot.

A bad man couldn't have fabricated such an inspiring book, and a good man wouldn't have fabricated such an inspiring book.

Ibelieve the quote is "By their fruits ye shall know them". Matthew 7:16-20, reiterated in 3 Nephi 14:16-20.

[MaidservantX]

The thing about bringing up the (shall we term it?) the "DNA" argument in interfaith dialogue (benefit of the doubt as to what this discussion is) -- is that those who bring up this point are actually talking to thin air: no one is there. The room is empty. There is nothing about the faith in the heart of the Mormon believer that corresponds that title: "DNA evidence or lack thereof of the Book of Mormon".

The faith that is in the heart of the Mormon believer is in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer and Savior of mankind -- that he is resurrected and living and still directing His work; and that Jesus Christ's atonement (sacrifice) made it possible for each individual to repent, be completely forgiven and cleansed, to have protection and peace in this earth life, and to return to live with our Heavenly Father.

Are there those who wish to argue us out of this faith? Some in doing so would be arguing themselves out of their faith as well.

No sermon in the family service (Sacrament Meeting), no Sunday school class, in none of the other meetings (Priesthood Quorums and Relief Society) are you going to hear a teaching regarding DNA and the Book of Mormon. Perhaps, in a lively Sunday School discussion, it might come up, as it is certainly an interesting thing -- but no pronouncement will be handed down on it. Last week in Sunday School we learned the signs of the times; Relief Society and Sacrament Meeting were both about self-reliance and preparedness (a little theme going on, I guess). I went to a fireside that night and learned about the founding of the United States. Lately in the Book of Mormon, I have been reading the story of Ammon finding the people of Limhi, and how excited and relieved Limhi was and looking forward to rejoining loved ones and also God's redemption. In the Bible, I have been studying bits of Genesis and Isaiah.

Now, Mormons like to learn things. They like to delve. They have huge imaginations. There may be a great many Mormons with a variety of views of DNA matters as they may or may not relate to the Book of Mormon. There are Mormon scholars who are studying it in depth -- not for the church, but out of their own interest; in fact, they have no vested interest in coming up with Judaic DNA here in America. You don't know Mormons very well if you don't know that Mormons would be equally excited (and would not stop believing in Jesus Christ) by evidence that showed -- anything at all! about DNA. :) Going on, there may have been pronouncements by past church leaders and thinkers. I am not up on all the academic area and I don't have my handy-dandy obscure last century church leader quotes for all argumentative occasions concordance at my finger tips, so I can't speak to either of those kinds of things.

But I can tell you that there are some heritages and lineages spoken of in the Book of Mormon. I am aware of at least three. Lehi and his family were descended from Joseph/ Manasseh (so not Jews). There was a group of people who left the tower of Babel, so whatever that makes them. There was a group who were descended from the king Zedekiah (Jerusalem), and I am thinking that is descent from Judah. There is nothing within the Book of Mormon itself that states that these three groups are the only possible heritages of the indigineous peoples of these continents.

The constantly changing picture of DNA and other things regarding anthropology and archaeology in regards to the Book of Mormon has about as much impact as does the same scientific disciplines as applied to the Bible. Just as an example: what if I were to tell you that the place where Jesus was born was NOT a stable nor was the place where he was laid an animal feeding trough? Did you know that translation and a newer understanding of how inns in those days work paints a very different picture? Does it make our God of the Bible worthless because he let us figure that out for ourselves instead of stopping the molds of all the BEAUTIFUL nativity sets? (God has his own purposes for things.)

So, to repeat, the constantly changing picture of academic disciplines as they apply to ancient texts and historical claims has NO impact on the MESSAGE of REDEMPTION and the plan of salvation as is being spread throughout the world by the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon and as it resides in the heart of the believer.

"Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I AM, whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sins." Doctrine and Covenants, section 29, verse 1.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3

"Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world" 3 Nephi 11:10-11

"Hear, O Israel: THe Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:5

This is the faith in my heart: my Savior and my Father in heaven.

Between this joyful knowledge -- intertwined with my sorrows, weaknesses and trials -- I don't have a lot of room left over for DNA evidence.

(Except when I do just for fun!! ha ha)

[Wyntrewolfe]

..... Plus, the DNA argument has no leg to stand on. There has been DNA evidence that supports a Jewish origin of the NAtive Americans jsut as strongly as a far Eastern origin.

Just bringin' up tidbits!

[MaidservantX]

It's odd (?:)) that you would say that, because in my (Mormon, ha ha) opinion, a Far Eastern origin fits quite well in with my reading of the Book of Mormon. I think I've said before that it is my personal opinion that the northern Native Americans are actually remnants of Jaredites (from the tower of Babel). So, Far eastern, judaic, pre-adamic --- doesn't matter to me, it's all waaaay too fun!

[Wyntrewolfe]

It's odd (?:)) that you would say that, because in my (Mormon, ha ha) opinion, a Far Eastern origin fits quite well in with my reading of the Book of Mormon. I think I've said before that it is my personal opinion that the northern Native Americans are actually remnants of Jaredites (from the tower of Babel). So, Far eastern, judaic, pre-adamic --- doesn't matter to me, it's all waaaay too fun!

No no, faaaaaar east. Like, Russia. Across the landbridge. :wink:

[CrimsonKairos]

I think the Jaredites would have had their descendants in the central american region. That is the general area where I believe the Hill Cumorah is which is identified with the gigantic last struggles in the Book of Mormon.

[a-train]

Those antis running around screaming: 'DNA has proven the Book of Mormon false!' have only demonstrated that they know nothing about the Book of Mormon or DNA.

-a-train

[Dale]

John Tvedtnes an LDS scholar gave examples of Bible variants that are as significant as Book of Mormon changes. He gave his examples in a FAIR talk. http://www.fairlds.org The article was entitled something like The Mistakes of Men Are The Scriptures Error Free. The claim the Book of Mormon changes were made to cover up for modalism is untrue. 3rd Nephi affirms the distinctions between Father and Son.

The Book of Mormon has persons that propose evidences for antiquity they have discovered within the text. External evidences for or against it's reliabily arn't that impressive. A single ancient map by people's who lived in Book of Mormon times would settle the historicity debate. As they left no clear maps, histories, people names it's the ambiguity in Meso-American archeology that keeps some believing in the book.

The DNA issue is complecated by the Book of Mormon text. FARMS has several articles on the DNA issue rebutting the critics. You can reach FARMS by following the links section of the FAIR website.

Archeology can't confirm the existence of the garden of Eden in the Bible. What has been discovered suggests by DNA studies man pre-dated Adam and Eve. Death was happening long before Adam fell. Living Hope Ministried who put out DNA vs. The Book of Mormon left out Tom Murphy's full conclusions. They did this to mislead the public into thinking Tom Murphy's research only challenges the Book of Mormon. In his belief man originated in Africa, and is a relative of the chimpanzee.

Without Adam and Eve being our first parents death started long before them. I was always told growing up that death didn't happen until they fell. This belief may be untrue, but I use my Bible anyway as scripture. But without a literal fall how do I know my need for Jesus doesn't exist only in my imagination? That a lot inbetween might be historical doesn't prevent the Bible from being of man only.

Is the Book of Mormon historical? I doubt it. I am open to it's historicity as a possibility. I have my reasons for and against it being considered possiblehistory at this point. My testimony of the book is mixed as it is for the Bible atleast in parts. I find the book inspirational. I will let God worry more about it's scriptural status. If the book isn't history I think it's best only use the Bible as scripture. If Joseph Smith lied about the book then he would be a deciever. He wasn't so dumb he didn't know he didn't make up experiences with God, angels. They told him he had real plates.

[Holly3278]

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Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Hey this site helped me alot

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/

Darn, I was reading through the posts, hoping no one would post that site. Beat me to it, why don't you?

Here are some questions for anyone that doesn't believe in the Book of Mormon's veracity: If it isn't true:

• How did Joseph Smith (since, obviously, he "wrote" the Book of Mormon) know so much about ancient olive culture as practiced in ancient Israel? (See Jacob 5)
• How did he know about a rare river and valley in Arabia, or about the location of a forested and fertile place along its coastline = Bountiful? (Most people even today laugh at the idea.)
• Why would Smith have the records written on golden plates? The idea made him a laughingstock in the 1800's, but nowadays it's been revealed as a well-established practice for sacred Semitic records.
• Why also would he have claimed to have found them buried in a stone box? Also a well-established practice for Semitic records that no one knew about in 1830.
• Why would he have the hierarchy of the Lamanites be cities over other cities, instead of city, county, state? Accurate, but a completely foreign idea to him.
• Why would Smith originally write in a grammatical structure that, while incorrect and awkward in English, is perfectly correct Hebrew? (e.g., "if/and" instead of "if/then"; the style was changed in later editions to make for more correct English.)
• How could he have a complex description of the weights and measurements of Book of Mormon times that almost exactly matches up to Egyptian weights and measures?
• How in the world could he possibly have written the Book of Mormon using such inticrate examples of chiasmus, a Semetic writing style that's rather too difficult and complex for someone with a third-grade education to emulate?

I'd be fascinated if anyone could explain away the above questions...

Wow this is very interesting and really proves to me the accuracy and divine inspiration of the Book of Mormon. Thank you!

[Wyntrewolfe]

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Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Hey this site helped me alot

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/

Darn, I was reading through the posts, hoping no one would post that site. Beat me to it, why don't you?

Here are some questions for anyone that doesn't believe in the Book of Mormon's veracity: If it isn't true:

• How did Joseph Smith (since, obviously, he "wrote" the Book of Mormon) know so much about ancient olive culture as practiced in ancient Israel? (See Jacob 5)
• How did he know about a rare river and valley in Arabia, or about the location of a forested and fertile place along its coastline = Bountiful? (Most people even today laugh at the idea.)
• Why would Smith have the records written on golden plates? The idea made him a laughingstock in the 1800's, but nowadays it's been revealed as a well-established practice for sacred Semitic records.
• Why also would he have claimed to have found them buried in a stone box? Also a well-established practice for Semitic records that no one knew about in 1830.
• Why would he have the hierarchy of the Lamanites be cities over other cities, instead of city, county, state? Accurate, but a completely foreign idea to him.
• Why would Smith originally write in a grammatical structure that, while incorrect and awkward in English, is perfectly correct Hebrew? (e.g., "if/and" instead of "if/then"; the style was changed in later editions to make for more correct English.)
• How could he have a complex description of the weights and measurements of Book of Mormon times that almost exactly matches up to Egyptian weights and measures?
• How in the world could he possibly have written the Book of Mormon using such inticrate examples of chiasmus, a Semetic writing style that's rather too difficult and complex for someone with a third-grade education to emulate?

I'd be fascinated if anyone could explain away the above questions...

Wow this is very interesting and really proves to me the accuracy and divine inspiration of the Book of Mormon. Thank you!

You're certainly welcome, but I have to confess that I pulled most of those questions from Jeff Lindsay's website, mentioned above. ^^;

[Holly3278]

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Hi everyone. I am interested in learning more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How accurate is the Book of Mormon? What evidence can you produce to support your claim?

Hey this site helped me alot

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/

Darn, I was reading through the posts, hoping no one would post that site. Beat me to it, why don't you?

Here are some questions for anyone that doesn't believe in the Book of Mormon's veracity: If it isn't true:

• How did Joseph Smith (since, obviously, he "wrote" the Book of Mormon) know so much about ancient olive culture as practiced in ancient Israel? (See Jacob 5)
• How did he know about a rare river and valley in Arabia, or about the location of a forested and fertile place along its coastline = Bountiful? (Most people even today laugh at the idea.)
• Why would Smith have the records written on golden plates? The idea made him a laughingstock in the 1800's, but nowadays it's been revealed as a well-established practice for sacred Semitic records.
• Why also would he have claimed to have found them buried in a stone box? Also a well-established practice for Semitic records that no one knew about in 1830.
• Why would he have the hierarchy of the Lamanites be cities over other cities, instead of city, county, state? Accurate, but a completely foreign idea to him.
• Why would Smith originally write in a grammatical structure that, while incorrect and awkward in English, is perfectly correct Hebrew? (e.g., "if/and" instead of "if/then"; the style was changed in later editions to make for more correct English.)
• How could he have a complex description of the weights and measurements of Book of Mormon times that almost exactly matches up to Egyptian weights and measures?
• How in the world could he possibly have written the Book of Mormon using such inticrate examples of chiasmus, a Semetic writing style that's rather too difficult and complex for someone with a third-grade education to emulate?

I'd be fascinated if anyone could explain away the above questions...

Wow this is very interesting and really proves to me the accuracy and divine inspiration of the Book of Mormon. Thank you!

You're certainly welcome, but I have to confess that I pulled most of those questions from Jeff Lindsay's website, mentioned above. ^^;

Ah I see. Well Jeff Lindsay has an excellent website!