Not sure if I can join LDS

[skippy740]

I'm sorry, but I just did a copy/paste from lds.org.  One of the questions within #4 would be a question of one's gender.  That question does require mission presidency, and perhaps First Presidency review & approval.  It may/will take longer, but just trust that everything will work out.  :)

[echosparks]

I tried to post this and I think I accidentally deleted it. 

 

My bishop said he'd have to talk to the mission president but as of right now I can't get baptized. If the mission president would say I can or can't (either way actually) would it then be pointless to attend the YSA that is around here and it's activities? No matter the outcome I know I will be able to go to institute.

 

For whatever reason the missionaries I have been seeing for the past 2 weeks said I had to go to RS yesterday. I sat there crying to myself the entire time knowing that I shouldn't have been there. I don't know who told them I had to go. Bishop said that I could go where I feel most comfortable at. 

[skippy740]

I'm sorry.  I tried to merge your post with your old thread.  

[Guest]

Hi echosparks, you can attend YSA and join any activity even if you're not yet baptized!  Well, okay, you can't go inside the temple when they do temple trips but you can still go on the trip and go to the visitors area.  It's really cool and peaceful.

 

And RS is awesome!  I'm not sure why you cried... where did you want to go instead?  Is there a back story here I'm missing?

 

Give it time, RS have really cool stuff - they also have lots of activities...

 

Hope that baptism gets here soon!

 

Best wishes and may God shower you with his many blessings.

[skippy740]

Here's the backstory... and it's key to understand this thread:

 

http://lds.net/forums/topic/53952-not-sure-if-i-can-join-lds/

[Guest]

Oh!  I just remembered your other thread (saw it down the list)!

 

Ok... I understand now about RS...

 

So sorry for what you're going through, it's a tricky situation.  I can kinda understand why they told you to go to RS.  Sometimes, we kinda just have to go with the flow until God reveals to us the better path or He reveals the purpose of the current path that opens our eyes to higher learning and acceptance.  I'm sorry I can't really relate to what you're going through.  I'm a woman and I am super grateful to be one... you know what they say, women rule, and men drool... okay, okay, I was just kidding. :)

[echosparks]

No offense but if I end up not being able to get baptized which means no temple recommend or marriage(i still like guys) then how could I go to YSA? I thought the whole point of YSA is so you can find someone to marry....

And yes depending on the situation sometimes women rule and men drool;) guys aren't the best at everything like some think they are.

[notquiteperfect]

No offense but if I end up not being able to get baptized which means no temple recommend or marriage(i still like guys) then how could I go to YSA? I thought the whole point of YSA is so you can find someone to marry....

 

Finding a mate is the point for some but there's great value in fellowshipping with the Saints and you'd still be welcome to participate.

[Quin]

I had my baptism kicked up to the mission president.

I've even known a few who have had their baptism kicked all the way upstairs to SLC.

While most probably have their baptism interviews by the other team of missionaries ("yours" never do the interview), it's not an insignificant number that need approval from higher up. I actually found it comforting, because I had a whole lotta those little "no" boxes ticked "yes"... I would have hated to have been accepted into the church just because I'm friendly & people like me (really, in real life I'm waaaay less cranky than I am online)... Only to be kicked out or excommunicated later on because I shouldn't have been allowed in to begin with.

So having my baptism kicked upstairs was a HUGE relief for me.

Q

[Lakumi]

I thought the whole point of YSA is so you can find someone to marry....

 

 

That's why I avoided it lol

Sorry just thought some humour was needed

[Guest]

No offense but if I end up not being able to get baptized which means no temple recommend or marriage(i still like guys) then how could I go to YSA? I thought the whole point of YSA is so you can find someone to marry....

And yes depending on the situation sometimes women rule and men drool;) guys aren't the best at everything like some think they are.

 

It's not the whole point to YSA.  The whole point to YSA - or any other church service - is to worship God and fellowship with the Saints - a place to practice following the 2 greatest commandments - Love God and Love your neighbors as yourself.  Everything else is just secondary.

[echosparks]

I'm guessing even if i can end up getting baptized that dating within the church would never happen for me? And that's if I'd find someone.... (i am pre-op).

[estradling75]

I'm guessing even if i can end up getting baptized that dating within the church would never happen for me? And that's if I'd find someone.... (i am pre-op).

 

Echosparks given your condition your dating pool is already going to be smaller then most people.  When you add an additional limit of looking for an other LDS member of course this is going to make it even smaller.  This appears to be the simple reality of your condition.  So you need to ask yourself why do you want to be baptized?  If you desire to be baptized because you know church is true, you have a testimony of it and you know this is the path the Lord has for you, then you need to move forward with faith.  Even if you can't see how the Lord will make it all work for you.  If that is not why you are looking to be baptized then you should really rethink why you are looking to take this path.

[echosparks]

Echosparks given your condition your dating pool is already going to be smaller then most people.  When you add an additional limit of looking for an other LDS member of course this is going to make it even smaller.  This appears to be the simple reality of your condition.  So you need to ask yourself why do you want to be baptized?  If you desire to be baptized because you know church is true, you have a testimony of it and you know this is the path the Lord has for you, then you need to move forward with faith.  Even if you can't see how the Lord will make it all work for you.  If that is not why you are looking to be baptized then you should really rethink why you are looking to take this path.

Yes the BoM is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet. I was just asking since family is important in the church. I have no family in or out of the church. No friends in the church but 2 outside of it. Otherwise it's just me on my own learning all of this. I've been done with the missionary lessons for a couple weeks now.

[estradling75]

Yes the BoM is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet. I was just asking since family is important in the church. I have no family in or out of the church. No friends in the church but 2 outside of it. Otherwise it's just me on my own learning all of this. I've been done with the missionary lessons for a couple weeks now.

 

 

Family is important... But there are also many reasons that a person might be single, that doesn't make them unworthy or unwanted, in the eyes of the Lord or in the eyes of the Church.  Unfortunately it can be harder for such a family centered group to reach out an include singles but that is because of human failings, and not because they are some how lesser. 

[Guest]

Yes the BoM is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet. I was just asking since family is important in the church. I have no family in or out of the church. No friends in the church but 2 outside of it. Otherwise it's just me on my own learning all of this. I've been done with the missionary lessons for a couple weeks now.

 

Yes, family is important.  But, we don't just count LDS people as family.  Your family is your family regardless of religion.

 

As far as getting married and all that.  Yes, that is a great blessing (I've been married going on 17 years to my eternal companion).  But, that doesn't mean that those who have not found their eternal companion are somehow missing out.  For quite a number of years, our RS President was a single woman in her late 50's.

[Roseslipper]

I have been in here but didn't post or read many of the post either. Their are so many intelligent people  in here and Im not one of them.  I want you to know up front that I don't consider myself to be smart.  I think im just simple.  I do know that Heavenly Father Loves us All.  And He knows all and understands all, and we do not!!  I do think things get messed up while the fetus is being developed if this is true, then Heavenly Father knows this truth and why this happens some times.  It could be for many reasons, maybe1 is its a (trail) and im probably spelling this wrong. Or maybe its another reason, we just don't know.  But above all alse I know that We Are All Heavenly Fathers Children and That He Loves us all and wants the very best for us All.  His path is the way, the truth and the light.

 

I know what ever trails we have, and some have many the way to true happiness is following the Lords way!!

 

With Love from one of your sisters in Christ.

[CiVi]

I happen to know for a fact that there are transgendered people in the Church. Their uniqueness of their situations are handled with the care they deserve by Church leaders, through love and the influence of the Spirit just like everything else. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is for absolutely everyone with a willing heart. If you believe, don't let fear stand in your way. Talk to the missionaries and Church leaders, and, if other members don't accept you as readily as they should, don't ever let that discourage you on this pursuit of His Truth. You're on the right track, I guarantee it.

[echosparks]

Bad news:(This is what my missionaries said-

I can get baptized but I'd have to stop living as a man, stop taking hormones, and stop attending priesthood (my bishop told me I could go where I feel comfortable. And yes i know i could never hold the priesthood). That's what the mission Pres. and first presidency said.

I wrote a letter to first presidency last week asking if I could get baptized. I sent an extra envelope with a stamp on it and my address on it so hopefully I will still get a written response back in the mail. Like I told my Bishop, I'd rather be dead than go back to living as a girl.

I thought getting baptized was not gender specific?? Apparently not

I think it'd be better if I just do what I was planning on doing all along-skip church and just learn all of this on my own. At least I wouldn't have to be around others who wouldn't like me for me staying who I know I am.

[Lakumi]

Church has people and people complicate everything lol I too never went through with baptism, as I didn't think it felt right at the present.

I avoid the whole scene and read and whatnot, on my own. If you'd like I can give you some tips and ideas, or just have a dialog.

[Guest]

Echosparks, I'm so sorry for your struggles.  I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you.

 

Baptism is not gender specific.  But our covenants are.  The Kingdom of God is an Eternal Family, therefore, our gender is an eternal quality of our spirits.  Whether your eternal spirit is male or female we cannot know unless given through Divine Revelation.  Most (if not all) of us are born in mortality with the same gender as our eternal spirits.  But each of us have our own mortal challenge to overcome.  I have what them newfangled psychologists call Intermittent Explosive Disorder (hah hah, it has IED as its acronym - funny how that works out).  It's a challenge that I have to overcome.  It could be that your specific challenge is a mismatched eternal gender to mortal gender  - but, it could also be that your eternal and mortal genders match it's just that you have a physiological condition that prevents you from expressing that mortal gender.

 

Choosing to Die is pretty serious... so it seems like an impossibility to reconcile these in this mortal state.  What would happen if you ease off on the hormones?  Would that maybe give you a chance to explore the possibility that your eternal and mortal genders match?

 

In any case, there is no requirement that you have to be baptized to join in sacrament meeting, sunday school, ward activities, etc. etc. etc.  That doesn't have to change for you.  These are great places for you to learn more about the gospel of Christ, line upon line, precept upon precept...

[Quin]

I'm confused.

When I first read what you wrote, I took it to mean that AFTER baptism you'd have to chose to change genders (again) in order to progress.

On re-read... Am I understanding correctly that your mission president says you cannot be baptized?

And even further... FIRST presidency is saying you cannot be baptized?

Purely do to being trans?

Because that would be news, big news, if trans people were not allowed to be baptized into the church.

Q

[echosparks]

What's the order in which you go when you have to ask the first Pres. if someone can get baptized? I never met or talked with the stake Pres. I never met or talked with the mission Pres. I asked the missionaries and they said it was a phone call maybe this past wed. with the first Pres. saying what I posted a couple of days ago. Wouldn't the mission Pres. have to interview me, and if finding me otherwise worthy, then WRITE to the first Pres. about me? and then would/ was first Pres. supposed to WRITE back to the mission Pres. about all of this? For all I know, for the mission Pres. talking on the phone about this and never meeting me, some things may have been said that aren't true.

If it makes anyone feel any better (and it won't) the same exact feeling I get when being told the BoM is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, etc. is the same feeling I get when asking Heavenly Father if I should be living as a boy.

When I ask Him if I should go back to living as a girl, I get nothing.

[echosparks]

I'm confused.

Am I understanding correctly that your mission president says you cannot be baptized? CORRECT

And even further... FIRST presidency is saying you cannot be baptized? CORRECT

Purely do to being trans? Obviously so. I didn't ask but haven't been told otherwise.

Because that would be news, big news, if trans people were not allowed to be baptized into the church.

Q

Keep in mind I'm still waiting for a written response from the first presidency on the letter I sent out a week ago. I doubt I will get a response but I will post what it says if/when I get one.

[princess.davidann]

I am in a similar position to echosparks.  My wife and i have considered joining your Church, having read quite a bit on the web.  We have been happily married for 5 years,  but for the last 4 I have been living as a female, and have changed my name from my birth name to a female number which reflects the way I now live.  I must point out that although I have taken female hormones, which helped to develop my breasts, I have no thoughts in my mind to change sex.

From all of the threads which I have read, we would not be able to join.   We do not want to waste the time of your Church missionaries, by letting them teach us, if it would not go any further,

 

My wife and I are 100% in agreement, that as I live as a female, would always go to church, wearing either a dress or Blouse and Skirt, that if I cannot attend the same meetings as my wife, we will have to go to another Church, where we can be together.  This is a shame, because we have read so much, and know the church is true, that if we cannot be baptised, or attend the same meetings, we will not join.

 

Is there any advice that anyone can offer, although likely to be similar to that given to echosparks.

 

Many thanks anyway.