Question About Something My Husband Said

[sharyll]

Hi - My husband and I were discussing the story about David and Goliath. Known my most LDS and other Christians, etc. Well he made a comment about other Giants mentioned in the Bible I am not saying there isn't but I don't remember it being mentioned. However what bothered me was the comment that he said it was because of Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed. Has anyone else heard of this?

Sharyl

[Guest Yediyd]

Hi - My husband and I were discussing the story about David and Goliath. Known my most LDS and other Christians, etc. Well he made a comment about other Giants mentioned in the Bible I am not saying there isn't but I don't remember it being mentioned. However what bothered me was the comment that he said it was because of Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed. Has anyone else heard of this?

Sharyl

Yes, look at Genesis 6:4

[Gwen]

i've heard of there being other giants. however the issue of them being the product of "Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed" is something i've never heard. i assume this statment is refering to a procreative union between an angel and men. that being the case i wouldn't give it much thought.

i guess the biggest question is how do you define angel? if angels are a different "species" as i've been told by some non lds friends before, then i guess they could be with "humans". however, my understanding of angels is that they are ppl that have been on the earth, just like you and i, who are on an errand from the lord. thus ppl here can at times be angels. you do something at the lords request that is very meaningful to another person they might call you an angel. but the true since of angel as i see it is one who has already passed and is litterly comming in behalf of the lord. like the angel moroni helping joseph smith recieve the gold plates. with that understanding, not sure they could, but why would an angel and a "human" have a procrative union? that just makes no since to me. not to mention if they were worthy to be on errands from god, then they themselves must be good, thus they would not violate such sacred laws reguarding such secred acts.

the idea of an "angel" (as another species) and a human creating a giant, somewhat reminds me of my classes in greek and roman mythology. not that i retained all that much but i recall stories filled with gods (who were a different species than ppl) having all these sinful human emotions of lust and jealousy, and comming down off the mount to "be with" mortals and some crazy quasi something being born; often there was some other god angry about this and then some curse followed........just a mixed up mess that leaves me with little reason to have faith in such ideas. why follow a god that is living a soap opra themselves? i understand those that did believe it and how they would laugh at my beliefs and i respect their faith as i respect any other. just what came to mind and the impression it leaves me with.

my 2 cents though probably worth less (but not worthless, i'm sure there is something of value in there). lol

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

Hi - My husband and I were discussing the story about David and Goliath. Known my most LDS and other Christians, etc. Well he made a comment about other Giants mentioned in the Bible I am not saying there isn't but I don't remember it being mentioned. However what bothered me was the comment that he said it was because of Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed. Has anyone else heard of this?

Sharyl

Yes, look at Genesis 6:4

Genesis 6:4 talks of men of renown that were the sons of the daughers of men and the Sons of God.

I have always taken that to mean the sons and daughters of the ancients, like Adam, Seth, etc., IOW, great men. Also, Sons of God doesn't necessarily mean angels. We males are all sons of God, there being only one Son. So, taking that verse in that way could be just like today, when my wife and I had kids...

I know that there is some interpretations by other religions that the angels spoken of by Jude were ones that did what you were referring to (mated with people on earth and created the giants. Weren't those angels referred to as gnaulim, or something like that??), but I can't see that connection.

[Guest Yediyd]

i've heard of there being other giants. however the issue of them being the product of "Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed" is something i've never heard. i assume this statment is refering to a procreative union between an angel and men. that being the case i wouldn't give it much thought.

i guess the biggest question is how do you define angel? if angels are a different "species" as i've been told by some non lds friends before, then i guess they could be with "humans". however, my understanding of angels is that they are ppl that have been on the earth, just like you and i, who are on an errand from the lord. thus ppl here can at times be angels. you do something at the lords request that is very meaningful to another person they might call you an angel. but the true since of angel as i see it is one who has already passed and is litterly comming in behalf of the lord. like the angel moroni helping joseph smith recieve the gold plates. with that understanding, not sure they could, but why would an angel and a "human" have a procrative union? that just makes no since to me. not to mention if they were worthy to be on errands from god, then they themselves must be good, thus they would not violate such sacred laws reguarding such secred acts.

the idea of an "angel" (as another species) and a human creating a giant, somewhat reminds me of my classes in greek and roman mythology. not that i retained all that much but i recall stories filled with gods (who were a different species than ppl) having all these sinful human emotions of lust and jealousy, and comming down off the mount to "be with" mortals and some crazy quasi something being born; often there was some other god angry about this and then some curse followed........just a mixed up mess that leaves me with little reason to have faith in such ideas. why follow a god that is living a soap opra themselves? i understand those that did believe it and how they would laugh at my beliefs and i respect their faith as i respect any other. just what came to mind and the impression it leaves me with.

my 2 cents though probably worth less (but not worthless, i'm sure there is something of value in there). lol

Some very good points!!! I am thinking about the virgin Mary who became pregnant by the Lord. But I guess he was an exaulted being with a physical body, right? I don't know...but the verse in Gen. makes it seem as though it were celetial beings that impregnated the women....be intersted in other thoughts on this...

A good topic...BTW.

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Hi - My husband and I were discussing the story about David and Goliath. Known my most LDS and other Christians, etc. Well he made a comment about other Giants mentioned in the Bible I am not saying there isn't but I don't remember it being mentioned. However what bothered me was the comment that he said it was because of Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed. Has anyone else heard of this?

Sharyl

Yes, look at Genesis 6:4

Genesis 6:4 talks of men of renown that were the sons of the daughers of men and the Sons of God.

I have always taken that to mean the sons and daughters of the ancients, like Adam, Seth, etc., IOW, great men. Also, Sons of God doesn't necessarily mean angels. We males are all sons of God, there being only one Son. So, taking that verse in that way could be just like today, when my wife and I had kids...

I know that there is some interpretations by other religions that the angels spoken of by Jude were ones that did what you were referring to (mated with people on earth and created the giants. Weren't those angels referred to as gnaulim, or something like that??), but I can't see that connection.

I'm not sure, but this is a good point...remember that the sons of Adam were in better physical shape than later generations.

[CrimsonKairos]

I think some NBA stars went back in time, probably with the Chinese guy as their (very tall) leader.

Sounds like a B movie idea. Maybe a C movie.

[prisonchaplain]

There are three or four theories about the beginning part of Genesis 6. That the giants were angels is one of them. There are other theories that are less fantastical.

[Maureen]

Hi sharyll,

Here's some information from bible.org that might give you some answers:

The Sons of God and the Daughters of Men

(Genesis 6:1-8)

Who are the ‘Sons of God’?

The interpretation of verses 1-8 hinges upon the definition of three key terms, ‘the sons of God’ (verses 2,4), ‘the daughters of men’ (verses 2,4), and the ‘Nephilim’ (verse 4). There are three major interpretations of these terms which I will attempt to describe, beginning with that which, in my mind is the least likely, and ending with the one that is most satisfactory.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=67

I've only given you an excerpt. The essay is quite long.

M.

[BenRaines]

Maureen, that is a very good piece.

Welcome back haven't seen you in some time.

Ben Raines

[orrinjelo]

Hi - My husband and I were discussing the story about David and Goliath. Known my most LDS and other Christians, etc. Well he made a comment about other Giants mentioned in the Bible I am not saying there isn't but I don't remember it being mentioned. However what bothered me was the comment that he said it was because of Angels and Men being together that Giants were formed. Has anyone else heard of this?

Sharyl

I remember hearing this idea on my mission from one of our investigators, and she took it real literally. Seems like it was something she got from the JWs, but don't quote me on that.

Basically, I interpret this passage to mean that several of the righteous sons, or those born into the Church, married out of the covenant. Lineages were mixed, ie the lineage of Shem and lineage of Ham. Seems like I got somewhere that many of Kain's seed were giants...

[valkator]

There are a number of possible causes for the existence of 'giants' or 'nephilim'. As the Genesis account attempts to recount:

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the Earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the B'nei Elohim (this is not a reference to 'sons of God' or sons of the Heavenly Father - but simply sons of the elohim - elohim being any number of possible beings in the higher realms) saw the B'not Ha' Adam (daughters of men) that they were good; and that they took them as wives, whomsoever they chose. And YHWH said: 'My Ruach (spirit) shall not abide in man forever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.' The Nephilim were in the Earth in those days, and also after that, when the B'nei Ha' Elohim came in unto the B'not Ha' Adam, and they bore children to them; the same mighty men that were of old, the men of reknown."

So, it's possible that the hybrids created from the union of the sons of the elohim and the daughters of Adam were 'giants' of some sort -- and that there were also 'giants' of another type, as well -- given that the proper name-title of Nephilim is given after this union reference. It could also be that the Nephilim are the exclusive products of the union, though this isn't specified at all in the account. It's not clear from the text other than to say that there was a hybridization of elohim and Adam and that there were Nephilim (giants) in the Earth.

If we bring in other accounts of creation and the theological explanations, this account may also have some relationship to spirit bodies that were once in the celestial realms and then 'fell' to the Earth (forbidden fruit? - original sin?), and then taking on (or entering into as a result of such 'original sin) the bodies of flesh that we are now clothed within, though this would extend the argument beyond 'hybridization' and goes past the initial question of 'giants'.

There are also a number of other references in extra biblical works such as The Book of Enoch, the Enuma Elish, and in the so-called 'gnostic' writings that also detail some sort of hybridization between the daughters of Adam and the sons of the elohim that happened in the past. If, as has been mentioned, the elohim are an actual celestial species with different physical characteristics than human beings, then their ability to reproduce with terrestrial human beings would seem limited to difficult, at best; if we are strictly looking at it from a physical compatibility point of view. Of course, the technology in the celestial realms used by the various species that exist 'there' might make this a non-issue. A comparison can be easily seen in the modern attempt of human 'scientists' to cross breed human and animal species through genetic engineering experiments. The ethical nature of this is, certainly, up in the air and it would seem that 'God' is not pleased with such transgressions - then and now. Although not part of the official 'canon' of the bible, we read in The Book of Enoch:

"And now, the Nefilim, who are produced from spirits (Elohim) and flesh (Adam), shall be called evil Refa'im upon the earth, and on the Earth shall be their dwelling. Evil Refa'im have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil ReRefaim on Earth, and evil Refa'im shall they be called. And the Refa'im Ha'Nefilim afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the Earth, and cause trouble; they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offenses. And these Refa'im shall rise up against the chldren of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.' Verses 8-12 TBOE

Taken together, it's probably best to research, using the many sources and chronicles that are available on the issue and to cross-reference everything -- looking at the 'fruits' as to what it may mean and signify.

[Fiannan]

Then again, wouldn't the people of that day consider people from other worlds as sons of God?

[valkator]

Then again, wouldn't the people of that day consider people from other worlds as sons of God?

It's likely that they would if we are translating 'elohim' strictly as 'God' and 'B'nei Elohim' as 'sons of God'. El' is the title of 'father' or the 'king' of many high ranking angels (or 'gods') - and was also the chief Canaanite deity. El, then, is a specific, deified being within creation - the 'father of the gods'/'Heavenly Father', so to speak - that would be the source of human creation and the source of the human potential in immanent terms. To accurately say 'sons of God' with it meaning the 'sons of the Being/God/Deity', however, we would say B'nei Eloah -- which is a 'generic' reference to the 'sons' of THE God (Being/Deity, etc) of all that completely transcends creation itself (manifesting in 'degrees' through the various levels of creation 'He' operates through) -- even the 'El' (Heavenly Father), 'B'nei El'/ 'B'nei Elohim' - as well as B'nei Adam- would be considered 'B'nei Eloah' in this respect. So, it's a matter of 'degree' as i'm seeing how those people of that day would perceive this -- and how it would be revealed to them. :)

[Maureen]

Welcome back haven't seen you in some time.

Hi Ben - A bunch of my friends and family have been signing up and chatting on Facebook (like myspace). So I've been spending time doing that and seeing if I can find 'long-lost' friends.....and my home PC died about 2 weeks ago...so we just got ourselves a MAC notebook....although there still might be hope for the PC.

M. :)

[Guest Yediyd]

There are a number of possible causes for the existence of 'giants' or 'nephilim'. As the Genesis account attempts to recount:

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the Earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the B'nei Elohim (this is not a reference to 'sons of God' or sons of the Heavenly Father - but simply sons of the elohim - elohim being any number of possible beings in the higher realms) saw the B'not Ha' Adam (daughters of men) that they were good; and that they took them as wives, whomsoever they chose. And YHWH said: 'My Ruach (spirit) shall not abide in man forever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.' The Nephilim were in the Earth in those days, and also after that, when the B'nei Ha' Elohim came in unto the B'not Ha' Adam, and they bore children to them; the same mighty men that were of old, the men of reknown."

So, it's possible that the hybrids created from the union of the sons of the elohim and the daughters of Adam were 'giants' of some sort -- and that there were also 'giants' of another type, as well -- given that the proper name-title of Nephilim is given after this union reference. It could also be that the Nephilim are the exclusive products of the union, though this isn't specified at all in the account. It's not clear from the text other than to say that there was a hybridization of elohim and Adam and that there were Nephilim (giants) in the Earth.

If we bring in other accounts of creation and the theological explanations, this account may also have some relationship to spirit bodies that were once in the celestial realms and then 'fell' to the Earth (forbidden fruit? - original sin?), and then taking on (or entering into as a result of such 'original sin) the bodies of flesh that we are now clothed within, though this would extend the argument beyond 'hybridization' and goes past the initial question of 'giants'.

There are also a number of other references in extra biblical works such as The Book of Enoch, the Enuma Elish, and in the so-called 'gnostic' writings that also detail some sort of hybridization between the daughters of Adam and the sons of the elohim that happened in the past. If, as has been mentioned, the elohim are an actual celestial species with different physical characteristics than human beings, then their ability to reproduce with terrestrial human beings would seem limited to difficult, at best; if we are strictly looking at it from a physical compatibility point of view. Of course, the technology in the celestial realms used by the various species that exist 'there' might make this a non-issue. A comparison can be easily seen in the modern attempt of human 'scientists' to cross breed human and animal species through genetic engineering experiments. The ethical nature of this is, certainly, up in the air and it would seem that 'God' is not pleased with such transgressions - then and now. Although not part of the official 'canon' of the bible, we read in The Book of Enoch:

"And now, the Nefilim, who are produced from spirits (Elohim) and flesh (Adam), shall be called evil Refa'im upon the earth, and on the Earth shall be their dwelling. Evil Refa'im have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil ReRefaim on Earth, and evil Refa'im shall they be called. And the Refa'im Ha'Nefilim afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the Earth, and cause trouble; they take no food, but nevertheless hunger and thirst, and cause offenses. And these Refa'im shall rise up against the chldren of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.' Verses 8-12 TBOE

Taken together, it's probably best to research, using the many sources and chronicles that are available on the issue and to cross-reference everything -- looking at the 'fruits' as to what it may mean and signify.

Wow! Now I know where Hollywood got the idea for Rosemarry's baby!