Temple recommend question #6 on family

[honeybee]

Current bishops, stake presidents, or general Church leaders:  What is your interpretation of question #6, "Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?"  Is it addressing only reportable abuse? 

[Str8Shooter]

The question is very specific. Anything means "anything", not just abuse.

Abuse of any type is always reportable to priesthood leaders and, if the law was broken, law enforcement.

Please, please, please get help if this involves you, or encourage whoever this is about to get help. Abuse can be overcome and repented of but if left to denial, it perpetuates more abuse and starts a cycle that can span generations.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi honeybee, FYI I'm not sure if there are too many active bishops, sp's or other leaders posting on this board right now. 

 

This is a question that I've thought about over the years too, I think I'll ask my bishop the next time I get a TR interview.

[honeybee]

Details: some disgruntled feelings in a family which has come to adult children no longer speaking to parents, not even giving eye contact while passing in the halls at church, being excluded from all family functions including ordinances. Priesthood leaders are aware and don't know how to best help. This has gone on for four years. All the adult children hold callings of responsibility as do the parents.

[NeuroTypical]

Hmm... I guess it depends on the reason.  My wife and I took ourselves out of her parent's lives.  She and they no longer talk, we avoid each other.  We counseled with our bishop before taking this action, he was understanding and supportive, and signed more than one temple recommend afterwords.  Last I heard, the parents are all active templegoers too.  We're happily living in another state, which removes all the "avoid eye contact while passing in the halls" stuff.  

 

The temple recommend questions are an opportunity for a member to get square with their priesthood leader and their God.  Avoid gossip.

[honeybee]

Neuro Typical:   Thank you so much for your reply.  Were her parents abusive either in childhood or adulthood?  By this I don't mean typical parent blunders.  I'm trying to understand, not argue in any way.  How do you square this in you own minds and hearts with counsel on mercy, forgiveness, familial relationships, etc. 

[estradling75]

it seems to be as if you'd expect the Bishopric or Stake Presidency to some how punish your parents for what ever it is that is bothering you.

 

It been my experience that the most important question in the Temple Recommend interview is the last one. (Are you currently worthy to go through the temple) and the most important signature on the Recommend is the individuals.  All the other questions are designed to remind the individual what worthiness means, and the other two signatures are there to show that yes they did get interviewed and answered positively.

 

If the individual chooses to lie during the recommend interview, the only way the Bishopric or Stake Presidency will know is if they are already familiar with the situation or the spirit prompts.  Other then that it is pretty much entirely on the individual in question.

[honeybee]

estradling 75:  Thank you for your sensitive reply.  We are the parents.  Bishop and stake president have interviewed all parties, have encouraged at least some degree of reconcilation to the adult children, but they aren't interested and began avoiding leaders.  We are following counsel to show love as opportunities arise, be ourselves, be patient.  Grandchildren are forbidden to speak or have contact with us as well. 

[honeybee]

Stra8Shooter:  Thank you.  We do see a good psychologist as needed.  However, one LDS doctor said question #6, in her mind, was only about legally reportable abusive behavior.  Thus my question on this forum. 

[estradling75]

Honeybee  you are describing a classic situation where your kids have deemed you toxic.  Maybe they are right maybe they are wrong.  But the only person you can change is you.  The only person we can advise is you.

 

Ask yourself why they have done so.  Given in the very short time you have been on the forum you have questioned their worthiness to hold a recommend (or the competence of church leaders in giving it to them).

 

Now image what they would think if/when they found out that their parent(s) are on-line publicly questioning their worthiness?  I think it would add more fuel to the fire of alienation.  It seem to me like it would be a good idea to knock it off.  Perhaps rather then complaining about the mote in your children's eye you should focus on the beam in yours?

[Str8Shooter]

Details: some disgruntled feelings in a family which has come to adult children no longer speaking to parents, not even giving eye contact while passing in the halls at church, being excluded from all family functions including ordinances. Priesthood leaders are aware and don't know how to best help. This has gone on for four years. All the adult children hold callings of responsibility as do the parents.

This appears to be a difficult and awkward situation.  I am sorry you are having to deal with it.  It doesn't really seem like it requires leadership intervention but make sure that decision is made by your local leaders.

 

Sometimes the best thing to do is extend and olive branch and hope for the best.  Fast and pray that all hearts involved will be softened.  Try to open doors of communication with genuine humility.

As for question #6 and for all other temple recommend questions, they are not open to interpretation.  The questions are very clear and very specific for a reason.  This is how I have been counseled.

[omegaseamaster75]

Current bishops, stake presidents, or general Church leaders:  What is your interpretation of question #6, "Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?"  Is it addressing only reportable abuse? 

As addressed by others the temple questions are very specific in nature, they require a yes or no answer.  "is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the church?"

 

If your not speaking to your adult children and they are not speaking to you, you are allowed no contact with your grand kids, then the answer is YES (unless of course you are totally innocent in this tragic family falling out) If you answer yes I would assume that detail would have to be given and the issuance of a temple recommend will be delayed.

Edited September 2, 2014 by omegaseamaster75

[NeuroTypical]

Neuro Typical:   Thank you so much for your reply.  Were her parents abusive either in childhood or adulthood?  By this I don't mean typical parent blunders.  I'm trying to understand, not argue in any way.  How do you square this in you own minds and hearts with counsel on mercy, forgiveness, familial relationships, etc. 

Hi Honeybee,

 

Her parents were/are not abusive.  But they presided over a house where much abuse went on, spanning decades and generations.  

 

I made it sound like we cut ties, which is not really what happened.  It was more like choosing to move the relationship from child victim, to adults.  We presented three things we needed to see, in order to move forward with a close relationship. Basically, we needed to hear from a third party that they were no longer harboring secrets, no longer protecting and enabling incestuous humans, to the extent of lying in court cases.  

 

Basically, they represent a clear and known threat to the health and wellbeing of my wife and children, therefore we treat them as such.

 

Forgiveness was one of the harder things my wife and I have struggled to obtain, but we did it.  Mercy, in this case, means not providing them the opportunity to fail once again to protect innocents in their care.  Forgiveness does not mean we need to expose our kids to the threat of harm, and my wife does not need to expose herself either.  "Honor thy father and mother" does not mean we have to be a part of damaging, harmful, secretive sickness.  

 

We'd love for them to get the help they need, accept and deal with the truths they deny, and become someone safe to be around.  We've prayed for such miracles, and spent a year or two trying to bring them about.  The ball has been in their court for a long time, and charitably thinking, they're too unwell to return serve.  So we wish them well from 668.3 miles away, on the other side of a big mountain range, and hope they someday get healthy.

 

But no, they never lifted an abusive hand against anybody. 

[honeybee]

Thank you for explaining NeuroTypical.  It helps me understand.  In our case there are no such behaviors thankfully.  My best to you.