Dinasours

[cchrissys1]

does any one have any explanations as to those big lizzards called the dinosours. when and what happened? did they not fit on the ark or something. I have a couple of these questions. I try not to let them interfer with my testimony but it would sure be nice to dismiss them once and for all.

[musashi]

the dinosaurs died millions of years ago. one popular suggestion is that the earth was hit by a great meteorite.

[cchrissys1]

the dinosaurs died millions of years ago. one popular suggestion is that the earth was hit by a great meteorite.

I ment in church terms thow. human kind on earth has only been about 7 thousand years not hondreds of thousands like the evolutionists say. I forget how may generations exactly.

[musashi]

but all the carbondating stuff already shows what really happened, how old stuff is. in church terms...hmm... yeah i guess they got killed when the whole world was flooded. noah was supposed to get two of every animal, but maybe just couldnt fit dinosaurs inside his boat.

[Guest Yediyd]

Yeah the scientist assumed that the moon would have about 12 foot of dust on it too, because they "figured" out the age and stuff...that's why the Moon lander had such long legs....When they got up there, ther was about 6 inches give or take...go figure?

I have hipothisized that the dinosours were crushed by their own weight when the barametric pressure changed after the water canopy that was protecting the Earth fell to the Earth in the great flood....but what do I know? I'm just a dumb hillbilly.

[musashi]

without having been to the moon and guessing what it would be like is different from living on the earth and being able to test and determine the age of things. if you want to talk about the moon, it was joseph smith that said there are men living on the moon who dress like quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. brigham young taught that the sun is inhabited too.

[cchrissys1]

let's just say it's a serious question to me. I try not to let it shake my testimony but there is evidence of evolution not of the scriptures. I was hoping this site would help.

[musashi]

ok well i hope you find what you are looking for here

[Palerider]

ok well i hope you find what you are looking for here

Ditto...... :)

[sixpacktr]

Theories abound as to what the dinosaurs were. My mother didn't believe in them, period. She believed it had nothing to do with our salvation, and that some day she would know.

Brother Nibley taught in several of his classes that the earth and the world have different meanings, and that just because we are now here doesn't mean we are the only people to have ever inhabited the planet (IOW, our HF has done this over and over again with others of his children, hence Stonehenge, etc). Same goes for dinosaurs, perhaps animals that were before man, or during another time when man was here?

I haven't explained that well, but it makes a certain amount of sense.

What I have learned is that I don't trust anyone anymore, except for the Spirit. Every once in a while something pops up that "proves" that the church isn't true, that Christ was a fake, etc., and then a little later, to MUCH LESS fanfare, that is retracted or proven false. I simply refuse to believe that which contradicts what the Spirit has told me is true.

Since the HG hasn't told me what dinos were, or why there is a Stonehenge, I don't worry about it, and feel free to have my own opinions. But if they change I don't have any problems.

[Guest Yediyd]

I'm with you, Six. :)

[CrimsonKairos]

Here's one of my earlier posts dealing with this:

There are a number of things which are not taught or discussed among LDS Church members that bear consideration. The main problem most LDS members have with evolution is that it requires the occurence of the death of billions of organisms over millions of years to account for the fossil record in the strata of the earth's crust. Yet the scriptures say there was no death before the Fall of Adam (Moses 6:48, 59). How can these two seemingly contradictory teachings be harmonized?

There is a way for both views to be correct at the same time. The first clue is found in the Pearl of Great Price. Readers should note that the account of creation in the Book of Moses is a record of the spiritual creation of the earth and the life forms inhabiting it, etc... while the account of creation in the Book of Abraham is a record of the physical creation of the earth and the life forms inhabiting it, etc...

Abraham 5:3 says the Gods decided to sanctify the earth on the seventh day of the physical creation. Well okay, what does sanctify mean in this context? Does it just mean to designate it as a day of rest? Or could it mean something else entirely? Let's turn to D&C 77:12 for the answer:

"Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming."

I've put important bits in bold type. I'm not putting forth this idea as gospel truth (if you'll pardon the pun), but bear with me if you'd be so kind. This verse links the sanctification of the earth and all life on it on the seventh "day" of creation with the sanctification of the earth that will take place at the beginning of the Millennium, after Christ's Second Coming. Well I won't list all the scriptures but I'm sure we're all pretty familiar with the fact that during the Millenium there will be no death, the earth will be changed (valleys exalted, mountains brought low, etc...) and essentially "translated" into a more glorious state than it now occupies.

So we have sanctification being loosely defined as changing a telestial planet where death occurs into a more glorious planet where there is no death. Hmmm, a glorified earth without death...sound like the conditions of the earth during Adam and Eve's stay in the Garden of Eden prior to their Fall?

Well if you look at D&C 77:12 again, it not only says that the earth wasn't sanctified (which involves banishing death if we define sanctification according to the sanctification of the world during the Millennium) until the seventh "day" of creation, but it also says that on the seventh "day" of creation is when man was formed of the dust of the earth...basically, when Adam and Eve were placed in Eden.

So let's construct a few syllogisms, shall we?

Syllogism #1:

A. During the Millenium, there will be no death and the earth will become more glorious than it now is;

B. D&C 77:12 calls this change "sanctification;"

Therefore...

C. Sanctification can mean changing the planet into a more glorious state where there is no death.

Taking the C from above and using it as the starting point for a new syllogism:

Syllogism #2:

A. Sanctification can mean changing the planet into a more glorious state where there is no death;

B. D&C 77:12 says God sanctified the earth on the seventh "day" of its creation process;

Therefore...

C. For the first "six" days of the earth's creation process, it was unsanctified.

Taking the first and second syllogism's C's we form the next syllogism:

Syllogism #3:

A. For the first "six" days of the earth's creation process, it was unsanctified;

B. Sanctification can mean changing the planet into a more glorious state where there is no death;

Therefore...

C. Before the seventh "day" of creation when the earth was sanctified, there could have been death among the forms of life inhabiting it.

Note again how D&C 77:12 links the placement of man onto the earth with its sanctification. This sanctification can rightly be called "a beginning." It was the beginning of the earth's existence in a more glorious, death-free state, and it was the beginning of mankind's existence on this new death-free earth. So...

Syllogism #4:

A. The earth was sanctified on the seventh "day" of creation;

B. Adam and Eve were formed of the dust of the earth on the seventh "day" of creation;

Therefore...

C. There was no death on the earth after the arrival of Adam and Eve, until their Fall.

Hence, Adam truly did bring death into the world with his and Eve's transgression. This does not preclude the possibility that life forms inhabiting the earth could have died before the earth's seventh-"day"-sanctification. As we've seen, sanctification is linked with changing matter and life to a death-less state of existence (as per the Millennial change to come). So for first six "days" of the earth's creation process, all manner of life could have lived, multiplied, and died on the earth, leaving massive amounts of fossil data for us to uncover in our day. But, after the seventh "day" when the earth was sanctified and Adam and Eve were placed on it, there would have been no death if Adam and Eve hadn't partaken of the forbidden fruit.

With these concepts in mind, it is entirely possible to marry the seemingly contradictory ideas proposed by science and faith, namely:

First, the idea that organisms (simple and complex) lived and died for millions of years in this earth's ancient existence; and,

Second, the idea that there was no death prior to Adam's Fall after the earth was sanctified or made death-free on the seventh period of creation.

Remember, Abraham's account of the earth's physical creation refers to the seven periods as "times," not "days" as does Moses's account of the earth's spiritual creation. Furthermore, Abraham never states that the seven periods of time were equal in duration.

So one last syllogism:

Syllogism #5:

A. For six periods of time in the earth's creation process death could have existed among the many life forms living on it (since it was not yet sanctified);

B. The earth was sanctified or made death-free in the same period of time (seventh) when Adam and Eve were placed on the newly-sanctified earth;

Therefore...

C. After the earth was sanctified, there would have been no death from the time Adam and Eve arrived until their Fall, hence Adam did bring death into the world as the scriptures teach.

I'm not saying this is the gospel truth. I'm proposing a way of reading and interpreting scripture and scientific data that allows both to exist side-by-side without contradiction. I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions. My view about all of this is liquid and dynamic, open to change as new facts and/or revelations come to light. For now, I take the stance that death could have existed prior to the earth's seventh-day-sanctification, but not after Adam and Eve arrived on the earth until they transgressed.

These concepts are explored in greater depth in the excellent book "Earth in the Beginning," by LDS author Erik N. Skousen, Ph.D.

[MaidservantX]

Chrissy, as I'm sure you realize, there is not really one 'church' way to view natural history, including dinosaurs. Just as a curious thing to say, my mother also proposed to me that perhaps the dinosaurs came from materials from other 'earths' that God might have used in creation. I don't think this is true, but you see the diversity of mormon people's thoughts on the matter.

I liked what CK has to say. I also cannot express my true thought on the matter, as you will all run me out wtih a pitchfork.

CK brought up Abraham. I find a couple of unutterably interesting verses, of which I have not completely thought through, I am still allowing them to sift through and synergize with what is already in my brain and perhaps awaiting what I have not learned yet (not perhaps -- for sure lots I haven't learned yet).

Here are the Abraham verses. CH4 verse (20-)21. "And the Gods prepared the waters that they might bring forth great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters were to bring forth abundantly after their kind; and every winged fowl after their kind. And the Gods saw that they would be obeyed, and that their plan was good."

Huh? "Prepared the waters"? Waaaaay cool. The WATERS brought forth marine and avarian life?

Also Ch 4 verse 24 (-25) "And the Gods prepared the earth to bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping things, and beast of the earth after their kind; and it was so, as they had said."

To me it actually sounds like a (routine?) program that got RUN. {Holds arms up to fend off pitchforks}.

Here are just some interesting links.

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

[scroll down for this one -- the applicable question is the second one]

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

http://cpms.byu.edu/ESM/research.html

[cchrissys1]

but all the carbondating stuff already shows what really happened, how old stuff is. in church terms...hmm... yeah i guess they got killed when the whole world was flooded. noah was supposed to get two of every animal, but maybe just couldnt fit dinosaurs inside his boat.

the only problem with carbon dating is they find skeletal remains and claim it 3\4 monkey man from 20,00000 bc and he is a link between us and the ape, when in fact he can't be more than 7000 and just has a promanent brow bone.

thank you for all the answers. they have been a help, i appreciate it.

[mk2_gti]

<div class='quotemain'>

but all the carbondating stuff already shows what really happened, how old stuff is. in church terms...hmm... yeah i guess they got killed when the whole world was flooded. noah was supposed to get two of every animal, but maybe just couldnt fit dinosaurs inside his boat.

the only problem with carbon dating is they find skeletal remains and claim it 3\4 monkey man from 20,00000 bc and he is a link between us and the ape, when in fact he can't be more than 7000 and just has a promanent brow bone.

thank you for all the answers. they have been a help, i appreciate it.

I personally believe that carbon dating is real and that the age of the earth is in fact as old as the scientists say. The whole 7k year thing is a silly interpretation of bible lineage taken too literal. I also believe that evolution exists. My personal belief if that Heavenly Father had a plan and he executed it.....however long it took him and however he did it is up to him. I read a quote from one of the past presidents of the church that said something along the lines of: " It is not our goal to decide how old the earth is, it has nothing to do with the plan of salvation. We leave the dating of the earth to the scientist, biologists, etc.". I find that if you look hard enough you will find that creationism can go hand in hand with what scientists have been saying for some time.

[Dr T]

Yed,

I'm just a dumb hillbilly.

That's two

[Guest Yediyd]

Yed,

I'm just a dumb hillbilly.

That's two

you haven't been around in a day or two...I think I'm up to about 20 or so......

Read the Disneyland thread if you REALLY want to start counting.

[Dr T]

I figured that. I'll check it out.

[CrimsonKairos]

The whole 7k year thing is a silly interpretation of bible lineage taken too literal.

No, it's about right. The Lord reveals in the D&C that the earth is to have a temporal existence of 7,000 years. Who knows how long Adam and Eve were in Eden before their Fall? I don't know any LDS scientist or leader who honestly believes the creation took place in seven 24 hour periods. The point is the lineage and genealogy of the Bible deals with time after the Fall.

The Lord very well could have taken a gazillion years to complete the seven periods of creation. As for us in mortality, the earth's temporal existence will be 7,000 years before Christ returns. No conflict. No confusion.

[musashi]

i think it used to be taught that everything was definitely created and that science was wrong, but these days they say there's no conflict between church doctrine and science. god can create BY evolution. the creation process is not explained.

[Guest bizabra]

does any one have any explanations as to those big lizzards called the dinosours. when and what happened? did they not fit on the ark or something. I have a couple of these questions. I try not to let them interfer with my testimony but it would sure be nice to dismiss them once and for all.

BIZ: Please read through some of the articles listed in this web page: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-flood.html The 6th one down in particular may help you to understand why the flood story is METAPHOR and NOT LITERAL history. But read 'em all! Maybe some light will go on in your head and you will be enlightened.

One can always hope. . . . . .

(edited for clarity)

[CrimsonKairos]

Yeah, let's flip off the light switch to dispel the darkness.

[Gillebre]

maybe we need a censor for you switch flipper offers. :)

[Dr T]

CK,

Yeah, let's flip off the light switch to dispel the darkness.

You been putting some great lines forward lately. Keep them coming brother. :)

[CrimsonKairos]