Do you have any thoughts as to why people become inactive?

[unixknight]

I know of a few people who went inactive because of the behavior of fellow congregants.

 

In one example, the family had moved into a new ward where most of the people were from one of those "perfect" neighborhoods where everything's a veneer of perfection.  This family was what remained of a divorce, and were all but ostracized by the other ward members because it was uncomfortable to deal with people who had experienced some real world problems.  This happened in rural Pennsylvania.

 

So the discomfort at church eventually resulted in that family going (mostly) inactive.  

 

I know of another fellow who felt like an outsider at church, though he remains active he very nearly went inactive over it.

 

Some (not all) wards are filled with some very snobbish people and it is repellent to people who aren't that way.  People don't like to deal with it because it's a LOT easier to just blame the inactives and pretend everything is peachy, but that attitude ain't helping.

[Guest]

It's also easy to blame "fellow congregants" for going inactive. It's not fun to be in a ward where you don't feel you belong, but in the big picture it's not reason enough to walk away from covenants. That's the tough thing. Our testimonies need to be rooted in the right things, and strong enough that the jerks at church don't push us off our foundation.

[Guest]

Eowyn,

 

While I agree with the statement, I disagree with the sentiment.

 

Yes, it is ultimately the individual's responsibility to maintain his own testimony.  But I also feel for those who truly have been persecuted by members of their own ward.  It is a lot more difficult to withstand than you can imagine when you've always been accepted.

 

I knew of a family whose mother remained faithful.  But her children were driven away because they were basically told by all the other youth that they didn't belong there.  And they were constantly bullied.  I won't go into details, but the bottom line is that if I were treated like they were, I don't know if I could have endured.

[estradling75]

 It is a lot more difficult to withstand than you can imagine when you've always been accepted.

 

 

That is a rather large assumption to make about anyone

 

 

Edited October 22, 2015 by estradling75

[unixknight]

It's also easy to blame "fellow congregants" for going inactive. It's not fun to be in a ward where you don't feel you belong, but in the big picture it's not reason enough to walk away from covenants. That's the tough thing. Our testimonies need to be rooted in the right things, and strong enough that the jerks at church don't push us off our foundation.

 

It's easy to assume someone had a weak testimony when they go inactive.  It absolves us of any burden of responsibility for any role we may have played.  You might be good at feeling the Spirit when you're surrounded by people who make you uncomfortable and unwelcome.  Some aren't.  

 

But I guess that's their own fault.  Nothing to see here.

 

 

 

 

That is a rather large assumption to make about anyone

 

 

 

 

So is assuming someone's faith must be weak when they go inactive.

Edited October 22, 2015 by unixknight

[Guest]

Not really. If your testimony of Christ and the restored Gospel, and the covenants you've made attached to that, are your primary reasons for going to church, then what other people do won't stop you. If that's what your testimony is rooted in, and you're feeding that testimony, then jerky people won't drive you away from it. Even if it's uncomfortable. Even if you hate it. 

 

My husband, for instance, has some social anxiety. It's painful for him to go to church sometimes. It wears him out. But his covenants are important to him, and He loves the gospel and wants to renew those covenants and serve in the ward as he has committed to do. Even when we've been in crappy wards where we felt like outsiders. It's hard! But when you build on the Rock, you cannot fail. 

[unixknight]

Testimony in the Gospel and the desire to interact with snobs are not the same thing.  

[Guest]

Eowyn,

 

While I agree with the statement, I disagree with the sentiment.

 

Yes, it is ultimately the individual's responsibility to maintain his own testimony.  But I also feel for those who truly have been persecuted by members of their own ward.  It is a lot more difficult to withstand than you can imagine when you've always been accepted.

 

I knew of a family whose mother remained faithful.  But her children were driven away because they were basically told by all the other youth that they didn't belong there.  And they were constantly bullied.  I won't go into details, but the bottom line is that if I were treated like they were, I don't know if I could have endured.

 

Bullying is another thing that should absolutely be addressed. But being accepted? No. I have rarely felt accepted. I was the outsider girl that didn't have a lot of money and went to a different school in my ward growing up. I was the childless one in RS for the first years of our marriage. Now I'm in a ward where I was friends with some ladies for a time that eventually ostracized me and gave me the full-on mean girl treatment, and I still have to see them every week when I go. Any good friends I had in the ward have moved away, except one, and thank goodness for her, though she has health issues and isn't there half the time.

 

Assumptions can be made from all sides, no?

[Guest]

I do sympathize, I just don't think it's worth walking away from everything you have faith in because of someone else's sin. 

 

I remember a few years ago, there was a play group at church that I would go to with my 2 young daughters. We all seemed to have a good time and my kids are well-behaved. One week I asked when we were meeting, and was told that the group didn't exist anymore. As you have probably already predicted, that was a lie, and I found out in a painful and embarrassing way. I was purposefully excluded by all the other young moms in my ward. I would go to church and choke back tears. I would come home and cry. I felt so lonely and had no friends. It took some years of white-knuckling through a couple of other, smaller incidents, and pouring out my heart to Heavenly Father before I felt like I really made friends in my ward. As I said above, most of those have moved, and I don't really feel like I have a solid place anymore. But I care less, because I'm there to renew my covenants, set and example for my kids, and serve the Young Women that have been put in my charge. Socializing with ward members is almost non-existent now, but that's okay. 

[The Folk Prophet]

It absolves us of any burden of responsibility for any role we may have played.  

 

How does it do this? By the same logic, if I preach anti-Mormon doctrine to someone and they lose their testimony, I can claim that I held no responsibility by simply recognizing the fact that they lost their testimony.

 

That makes no sense. Recognizing loss of testimony has nothing to do with the responsibility one may have had in leading another down that path.

 

So is assuming someone's faith must be weak when they go inactive.

 

Ah yes, the ever common faithful inactive.

[unixknight]

I do sympathize, I just don't think it's worth walking away from everything you have faith in because of someone else's sin. 

 

I remember a few years ago, there was a play group at church that I would go to with my 2 young daughters. We all seemed to have a good time and my kids are well-behaved. One week I asked when we were meeting, and was told that the group didn't exist anymore. As you have probably already predicted, that was a lie, and I found out in a painful and embarrassing way. I was purposefully excluded by all the other young moms in my ward. I would go to church and choke back tears. I would come home and cry. I felt so lonely and had no friends. It took some years of white-knuckling through a couple of other, smaller incidents, and pouring out my heart to Heavenly Father before I felt like I really made friends in my ward. As I said above, most of those have moved, and I don't really feel like I have a solid place anymore. But I care less, because I'm there to renew my covenants, set and example for my kids, and serve the Young Women that have been put in my charge. Socializing with ward members is almost non-existent now, but that's okay. 

 

I'm really glad that you were able to stay with it despite the unfair treatment you received.  I sincerely am... But I think it's unfair to expect everybody else to handle it the way you did.  Maybe you're a stronger person than most.  Maybe you're more defiant than most (a trait I admire, BTW).  Either way, not everybody is going to deal with it that way, and shouldn't have to.  The people that hurt you are jerks, either because they weren't honest enough with you to explain the problem, or because they were being unreasonable about whatever the problem was in the first place.

 

There's a REASON snobbish behavior is bad... it drives people away.  It puts people off.  It represents Christianity poorly.  This problem isn't isolated to the LDS church.  I see snobbishness in Christianity all over the place and it's one of the things that fuels critics' arguments.  

 

If people are being jerks or snobs in Church, that needs to be addressed so that people aren't driven away.  It helps nothing to simply conclude that those who go inactive are the entire problem in and of themselves. 

[The Folk Prophet]

But I think it's unfair to expect everybody else to handle it the way you did.  

 

It's unfair to expect endurance to the end, long-suffering, patience, humility and meekness?

[Guest]

I didn't say it did. In fact, I said that people being jerks, especially on public forums where we are pretty much representing Mormonism, is a problem. It does need to be addressed, and people do need to be better disciples of Christ in deed as well as word. I just don't think that people ought to let these jerks have so much power over their salvation. I also don't see the value in blaming other people for my problems to the point of absolving myself of any responsibility. That's in the same category as blaming less actives for not having a strong enough testimony, if you want to follow that argument. 

[unixknight]

How does it do this? By the same logic, if I preach anti-Mormon doctrine to someone and they lose their testimony, I can claim that I held no responsibility by simply recognizing the fact that they lost their testimony.

 

That makes no sense. Recognizing loss of testimony has nothing to do with the responsibility one may have had in leading another down that path.

 

 

Ah yes, the ever common faithful inactive.

 

That's exactly what people do.  They absolve themselves of having to be introspective by laying blame elsewhere and the problem goes on.  Having responsibility fixes nothing if one doesn't acknowledge it.

 

Thanks for the snark, by the way.  Why bother trying to understand someone else's perspective when you can just use a little sarcasm to dismiss it, eh? 

[unixknight]

It's unfair to expect endurance to the end, long-suffering, patience, humility and meekness?

 

If people were so great at that level of strength and faith completely on their own, then church is a waste of time anyway.

[Guest]

If people were so great at that level of strength and faith completely on their own, then church is a waste of time anyway.

 

How so?

[RMGuy]

Another thought I have had on the matter:  

 

Why do people stop going to church?  

Because their needs are not met.  We have had some discussion in this very thread about what those needs are.  For some it is social, for others spiritual, a sense of community, an ability to commune with the divine, the atonement, a testimony of a living prophet, revealed scripture, and a host of other reasons.  

 

I would like to hypothesize that the reason why an individual stops attending is because their needs (whatever those are) are no longer being met by attendance at church.  We can belittle individuals because their testimony isn't as strong as ours, isn't the same as ours, or isn't rooted in quite the same way ours is, but if the church isn't meeting their needs they will stop coming.  It really is that simple.   Now whether or not the church SHOULD address those needs is another question entirely.  But the reason people stop coming through the doors on Sunday is the same reason they stop shopping at Home Depot and switch to Menards.  The other place better meets their perceived needs...it could be price, it could be customer service, it could be location or any number of other things.  

 

We can blame the customer all we like.  We can chalk it up to them being offended, not being really converted, being influenced by bad advertising or anti-mormon websites etc., but if you want them to come back through those doors next Sunday then we better identify what their needs are and work to address those.  

 

My $.02

[Guest]

That is a rather large assumption to make about anyone

 

No, it isn't.

[unixknight]

I didn't say it did. In fact, I said that people being jerks, especially on public forums where we are pretty much representing Mormonism, is a problem. It does need to be addressed, and people do need to be better disciples of Christ in deed as well as word. I just don't think that people ought to let these jerks have so much power over their salvation. I also don't see the value in blaming other people for my problems to the point of absolving myself of any responsibility. That's in the same category as blaming less actives for not having a strong enough testimony, if you want to follow that argument. 

 

I agree with you in principle, but implementing it in reality is more complex than that.

 

To be clear:  I'm not absolving the party who goes inactive either.  What I'm doing is taking an honest, objective look at the reasons people do what they do.  If somebody goes inactive because they were surrounded by snobbish people, I'm not prepared to write them off on the grounds that they just didn't pass muster when the going got rough.  

 

Sunday meetings are supposed to be the time when our spiritual batteries get recharged and we feel the presence of the Spirit, especially if, for whatever reason, we don't get to very often during the rest of the week.  Just how can someone's spiritual batteries remain strong enough to withstand jerkish behavior when that behavior itself is blocking that energy and preventing fellowship?  To me, that's literally like saying that my car shouldn't have run out of gas just because somebody was blocking the pump the last time I tried to fill my tank.  It's a catch-22.

[estradling75]

 

 

Thanks for the snark, by the way.  Why bother trying to understand someone else's perspective when you can just use a little sarcasm to dismiss it, eh? 

 

Right.... like you are so trying to understand their perspective before you dismiss them and their experiences

[unixknight]

How so?

 

I kinda elaborated a bit on that in my later post when I talked about spiritual recharge and the running out of gas analogy.  

[estradling75]

If people were so great at that level of strength and faith completely on their own, then church is a waste of time anyway.

 

 

Honoring covenants is a waste of time?!?! 

[Guest]

RMGuy, how do you propose that a church full of imperfect people and lay ministry identify and meet every sort of need of every member? 

 

The Church has said that everyone needs 3 things: A friend, a responsibility, and nurturing with the good word of God. The Church has programs to meet physical, temporal, and spiritual needs of its members. I don't deny that a lot of wards could do better with that. But I maintain that our covenants are more important than our comfort. 

[unixknight]

Right.... like you are so trying to understand their perspective before you dismiss them and their experiences

 

Whose perspective are you accusing me of ignoring, exactly?

[estradling75]

No, it isn't.

 

Ok then after what Eowyn just told us about her struggles I dare you to one again tell her that she has "always been accepted"

 

You were wrong about her...  And I can practically promise that everyone on the board had struggled to be accepted at some point...