Events in the US: The Past month. Is the United States failing?

[FunkyTown]

Over the past month, we've seen a few interesting tidbits and I thought I'd get your opinion on them:

 

Baltimore had the highest murder rate per capita in its history last year:

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/28/baltimore-murders-reach-340-december-ends/

 

The Black Lives Matter movement proposed racial segregation for the first time since the civil rights era:

 

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/09/why-need-black-only-spaces/

 

(This is one example. They demanded it at Princeton a few weeks ago). Their demand for black-only spaces can be dressed up all they like, but it's enforced segregation.

 

Yes. That's right. They demanded Segregation. For equality. SEGREGATION. FOR EQUALITY.

 

And Vladimir Putin has, for the first time since the USSR ended, posted that the US was a major security threat to Russia:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-names-united-states-among-threats-russian-security-110515740--business.html

 

Vladimir Putin is a very savvy person. The fact that he has felt safe enough to publicly state the USA is a major security threat to them means he feels safe enough to unite anti-US sentiment behind his banner. People with a beef with the US now have a powerful public ally - What that means remains to be seen.

 

Racial tensions are higher than they were since the Civil Rights era, crime is skyrocketing, job participation is at its worst ever and the greatest enemy the US ever had now has its feet again.

 

So my question is: What do you think the US should do about it? Do you think it -can-? Is it failing?

Edited January 3, 2016 by FunkyTown

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

For the record, so to speak, I disagree with your take on the Black Lives Matter issue, but I don't want to debate it...what I have to say on the matter is already clearly stated in the article.

 

So about your question about the US.  Just yesterday I saw an article that a Princeton Study declared that the US is no longer a Democracy.  Isn't that an odd thing to say.  Princeton should know that the US was never intended to be a Democracy, but a Democratic Republic, the difference is very important.  What are they teaching their students?!  And should we bother to listen to anything else they have to say if they can't get that straight?  

 

Anyway, here's the article:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

[FunkyTown]

I accept that you think that having black only spaces is not racial segregation.

 

I mean... It is. By definition:

 

Racial segregation

is the separation, either by law or by action, of people of different races in all manner of daily activities, such as education, housing, and the use of public facilities. (From the new world encyclopedia)

 

But I accept that for the record, you don't think that it is racial segregation. Or that racial segregation is good, I guess?

Regardless, your disagreement on one of those two things is duly noted.

For the record, so to speak, I disagree with your take on the Black Lives Matter issue, but I don't want to debate it...what I have to say on the matter is already clearly stated in the article.

 

So about your question about the US.  Just yesterday I saw an article that a Princeton Study declared that the US is no longer a Democracy.  Isn't that an odd thing to say.  Princeton should know that the US was never intended to be a Democracy, but a Democratic Republic, the difference is very important.  What are they teaching their students?!  And should we bother to listen to anything else they have to say if they can't get that straight?  

 

Anyway, here's the article:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by FunkyTown

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I think of it kind of like this...when The Wiz came out (a Broadway show with an all Black cast) some people said, "Isn't that racist?"   No only if you count the hundreds (or more) movies, books, TV shows, Broadway shows with all white casts racist.

 

If there is a Broadway show with an all white cast, we don't think anything of it.  So why complain if there is a Broadway show with an all black cast?  

 

I think people should have an opportunity to have a space for themselves...what if a people who like Dr. Who wanted a space of their own, where they could talk about Dr. Who without any haters calling them nerds.  Or LGBTQ people that want their own space, etc.  

 

I don't have a problem with people choosing to some degree to segregate themselves.  When It becomes problematic, for me, is when the government gets involved and says, "You can't use this public facility because we don't like your  __________ . "

[FunkyTown]

I think of it kind of like this...when The Wiz came out (a Broadway show with an all Black cast) some people said, "Isn't that racist?"   No only if you count the hundreds (or more) movies, books, TV shows, Broadway shows with all white casts racist.

 

If there is a Broadway show with an all white cast, we don't think anything of it.  So why complain if there is a Broadway show with an all black cast?  

 

That is something entirely different. At university, you can have a Korean Christian fellowship. You can have a Black Panthers meeting. You can have groups of all types that objectively would seem to include only one race.

 

When, as an institution, you pass rules that forbid other races from being in a place, you have institutionalized racism.

 

You can have a KKK meeting all you want, but if the Governor says "Okay! No blacks allowed at this KKK meeting." then it becomes not okay. The Powers-That-Be(In whatever form they are - School Headmasters or Presidents) pass institutionalized race-based laws on public lands, you get institutionalized segregation. That's bad.

[zil]

IMO, none of this is surprising given what the scriptures and modern prophets teach us.  The proper response is to do as we have always been taught by those same sources.  When Church leadership tell us it's time to hasten the work of salvation, it should be a given that Satan is stepping up his efforts too.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

That is something entirely different. At university, you can have a Korean Christian fellowship. You can have a Black Panthers meeting. You can have groups of all types that objectively would seem to include only one race.

 

When, as an institution, you pass rules that forbid other races from being in a place, you have institutionalized racism.

 

You can have a KKK meeting all you want, but if the Governor says "Okay! No blacks allowed at this KKK meeting." then it becomes not okay. The Powers-That-Be(In whatever form they are - School Headmasters or Presidents) pass institutionalized race-based laws on public lands, you get institutionalized segregation. That's bad.

 

I agree with you.  :)   I thought the former (like the Korean Christian fellowship) was what we were talking about.  Perhaps I misunderstood?  I did read the article you posted....skimmed actually.  Maybe I missed something? 

 

IMO, none of this is surprising given what the scriptures and modern prophets teach us.  The proper response is to do as we have always been taught by those same sources.  When Church leadership tell us it's time to hasten the work of salvation, it should be a given that Satan is stepping up his efforts too.

 

Good point.  I've wondered in awe what it means that our leaders have asked us to "hasten the work".  But perhaps not enough, I think I should be more prayerful about that . . . 

[FunkyTown]

I agree with you.   :)   I thought the former (like the Korean Christian fellowship) was what we were talking about.  Perhaps I misunderstood?  I did read the article you posted....skimmed actually.  Maybe I missed something? 

 

 

Good point.  I've wondered in awe what it means that our leaders have asked us to "hasten the work".  But perhaps not enough, I think I should be more prayerful about that . . . 

 

Actually, they demanded from the Headmaster that Black-Only spaces be provided by the school. That is - Spaces designated only for blacks. That's direct institutionalized racism.

 

This request was also made in Portland to the local government by Black Lives Matter.

 

It's segregation. Enforced segregation.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Actually, they demanded from the Headmaster that Black-Only spaces be provided by the school. That is - Spaces designated only for blacks. That's direct institutionalized racism.

 

This request was also made in Portland to the local government by Black Lives Matter.

 

It's segregation. Enforced segregation.

 

Oh, I apologize, I understand better now. And I agree with you.

 

 Unforunately this sounds like a case of them trying so hard to distance themselves from what they are fighting that they come full circle and repeat the mistakes of the past....like George Orwell's Animal Farm, or General Coin (sp?) in The Hunger Games.  

[David13]

They have everything backward.  Bizarro, the backward world they are creating, where good is bad, and bad is good, like they have intolerance for the sake of tolerance, and blatant racism for the sake of phony equality, or whatever.

A great impetus for all this perversion has come from the White House.

Black Lives Matter as a statement is racism in and of itself.  It clearly indicates that, to them police lives, white lives, Asian lives do not matter.  It's racist and exclusionary.

Just more of how everything in the temporal world is going 100% wrong.

dc

[NeuroTypical]

Well, if we're adding to the list of US woes:

 

Although militant Islamic jihadis have been carrying out terror plans in the US since at least 2002, 2015 saw a "this crap just got real" moment for lots of Americans.  For lots of us, we finally dealt with the reality of ISIS terror cells implementing mass-killings on at least two occasions, with ten or twenty times that number of plans stopped in time by US govt forces.  The enemy is here among us, plotting to kill us, and occasionally doing so.

[Guest MormonGator]

It's actually not failing. We're hearing about bad news more because there are so many more options to get news. Up until the mid 80's there were only newspapers, three channels and a radio. Now with so much information at our hands, logically we are bound to hear about bad news more. It's actually a wonderful time to be alive. We are living longer, happier and yes, much better lives. 

[FunkyTown]

It's actually not failing. We're hearing about bad news more because there are so many more options to get news. Up until the mid 80's there were only newspapers, three channels and a radio. Now with so much information at our hands, logically we are bound to hear about bad news more. It's actually a wonderful time to be alive. We are living longer, happier and yes, much better lives. 

 

I disagree that 2015 was a normal year. It was the year Glamour's woman of the year had testicles, a popular movement was pushing segregation for equality and a city councilman in Baltimore was pushing his constituents to throw stones at police chasing criminals, leading to widescale abandonment of certain parts of the city to criminals and allowing the highest homicide rate per capita in the city's history.

 

That ain't normal. The first two are Orwellian newspeak of the highest order and the last is the beginning of a dystopian novel.

[Guest MormonGator]

I disagree that 2015 was a normal year. It was the year Glamour's woman of the year had testicles, a popular movement was pushing segregation for equality and a city councilman in Baltimore was pushing his constituents to throw stones at police chasing criminals, leading to widescale abandonment of certain parts of the city to criminals and allowing the highest homicide rate per capita in the city's history.

 

That ain't normal. The first two are Orwellian newspeak of the highest order and the last is the beginning of a dystopian novel.

I like what Gordon Hinckley said. "Oh, what a wonderful time to be alive"

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

My husband would definitely agree with Gator. He has talkyd about this before. For example, when is the last time you went to the arena to watch Christians being fed to lions? Or attended a public hanging?

If the Savior were born today, some people 8n their wickedness wold still reject him, but we would not crucify him.

Crucifixion was intended to be a humiliating and painfull death. In the US, even our worst villains sit on death row for years, and if they are executed, it is in the most humane way possible.

Unless you are black, then you might be killed on the street for selling loosi3s, or gunned down for holding a fake gun (open carry does not apply to 12 yr old black boys apparently.) That is what "black lives matter" is about. But that is another topic.

[Just_A_Guy]

Racial tensions are higher than they were since the Civil Rights era, crime is skyrocketing, job participation is at its worst ever and the greatest enemy the US ever had now has its feet again.

So my question is: What do you think the US should do about it? Do you think it -can-? Is it failing?

Failing? That depends on what your notion of "succeeding" would entail.

IMHO, the genius of the federal government as-conceived was that it could count on broad support *because* it didn't impose upon its citizenry that much--it wouldn't become a tool for implementing partisan domestic agendas, so there wouldn't be a substantial minority organized opposition to a large number of established government policies. State government's certainly had that power, but irreconcilably differing groups could self-segregate to another local jurisdiction and there maintain their own social/religious/ethnic identities (New Orleans could be a "chocolate city", Pennsylvania could be a "Quaker state", Irishmen could form ethnicity-based labor unions, Mormons could gather in Utah, industrialists could go to New England, financiers to New York, agrarians to the Carolinas, etc) so long as a few basic rights for local minorities (life, liberty, property) were observed and there was a universal commitment to general principles of democratic republicanism.

I don't think government is "failing" at ending discrimination or guaranteeing a healthy jobs market, because I don't think those are necessary roles for government and, to the extent that government undertakes those roles anyways, they're only alienating sometimes-substantial minority factions who disagree with the official policy. But I think the federal government *is* failing at holding onto the loyalty of substantial portions of its citizenry, which to some degree hampers its ability to maintain domestic order and provide for the common defense.

And as a people, I think we are starting to fail in passing on the civic mores that kept the federal government limited (and therefore, viable) in a polyglot society like ours. That's going to have repercussions. Governments that don't have the goodwill of their citizenry, inevitably have to result to brute force. That's where "black lives matter" comes in--the African community has little goodwill for extant government structures, resulting in more physical resistance to law enforcement agents, resulting in escalation of force used by those agents and a breakdown in due process for individual offenders, leading to even more hostility to government--and the cycle perpetuates.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[zil]

Somewhat related to this thread is a very interesting article called "What is Wrong with Multiculturalism".  Try it out, if interested:

 

"Thirty years ago multiculturalism was widely seen as the answer to many of Europe’s social problems. Today it is seen, by growing numbers of people, not as the solution to, but as the cause of, Europe’s myriad social ills.  That perception has been fuel for the success of far-right parties and populist politicians across Europe from Geert Wilders in Holland to Marine Le Pen in France, from the True Finns to the UK Independence Party.  It even provided fuel for the obscene, homicidal rampage last year of Anders Behring Breivik in Oslo and Utøya, which in his eyes were the first shots in a war defending Europe against multiculturalism. The reasons for this transformation in the perception of multiculturalism are complex, and at the heart of what I want to talk about. But before we can discuss what the problem is with multiculturalism, we first have unpack what we mean by multiculturalism."

[The Folk Prophet]

It's actually not failing. We're hearing about bad news more because there are so many more options to get news. Up until the mid 80's there were only newspapers, three channels and a radio. Now with so much information at our hands, logically we are bound to hear about bad news more. It's actually a wonderful time to be alive. We are living longer, happier and yes, much better lives. 

 

Head in sand naivety is a beautiful thing. 

[The Folk Prophet]

I like what Gordon Hinckley said. "Oh, what a wonderful time to be alive"

 

This is what one might call a non-sequitur point. It does not follow that it being a wonderful time to be alive means that things are getting better, that the world isn't falling apart, or that problems, sin, corruption and evil are not increasing exponentially -- just like the fact that said evils are growing does not mean that the gospel isn't also growing, technologies aren't getting better, life is getting more convenient, etc.

 

Of course it's also pretty easy to sit in one's spoiled north-american world and claim everything's wonderful while people are starving throughout the world, and war, disease, desolation, famine, natural disaster, and other calamities rage.

[Guest MormonGator]

Head in sand naivety is a beautiful thing. 

Oh I used to be grumpy. I used to complain about how bad it was. Than, I read a book on the holocaust written by a person who was, be their own admission, happy and cheerful. How dare I complain. You know what else is cool FP? A woman whose kid has cancer remains optimistic, upbeat and happy even though she's going through a nightmarish situation. How dare I complain. People living in third world countries whose situations are much, much worse than ours are-happy. How dare I complain. Could we nag and peck about sin in the world? Sure. Go for it. It is your right. I choose to be happy.

 

In fact, becoming LDS brightened my world view to epic proportions. It's like being injected with prozac. 

But we won't agree. We won't at all. We have vastly, vastly different world views. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest]

The US is an oligarchy and has been for a long time. The ones with money are the ones with power, and work only to get more money. The voters are irrelevant and paying for their corruption. The consequences of that are vast, but add up to a weaker nation as a whole. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Oh I used to be grumpy. I used to complain about how bad it was. Than, I read a book on the holocaust written by a person who was, be their own admission, happy and cheerful. How dare I complain. You know what else is cool FP? A woman whose kid has cancer remains optimistic, upbeat and happy even though she's going through a nightmarish situation. How dare I complain. People living in third world countries whose situations are much, much worse than ours are-happy. How dare I complain. Could we nag and peck about sin in the world? Sure. Go for it. It is your right. I choose to be happy.

 

In fact, becoming LDS brightened my world view to epic proportions. It's like being injected with prozac. 

But we won't agree. We won't at all. We have vastly, vastly different world views. 

 

Having a happy and cheerful attitude in the face of severe trials is different than claiming that the severe trial is no trial at all. Being optimistic about the world we live in is different than claiming that all is well (in Zion or otherwise). Not complaining is not the same as belligerently claiming that things don't exist when they do.

Edited January 4, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest MormonGator]

Having a happy and cheerful attitude in the face of severe trials is different than claiming that the severe trial is no trial at all. Being optimistic about the world we live in is different than claiming that all is well (in Zion or otherwise). Not complaining is not the same as belligerently claiming that things don't exist when they do.

 I don't deny evil exists. I just try to overcome hate with love. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

I just try to overcome hate with love. 

 

I don't doubt you do. But claiming that things aren't getting worse, we're just more aware of the bad stuff out their because of the internet and the news is hardly that.

Edited January 4, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[Guest MormonGator]

I don't doubt you do. But claiming that things aren't getting worse, we're just more aware of the bad stuff out their because of the internet and the news hardly that.

Partially true. Because of the wide varieties of news sources, we think we hear more bad news than we did one hundred years ago. We think more bad things are going on in the world. 

But there isn't.It's all perspective. The truth is that we have less war, less violence, less disease then we did back a hundred years ago. People didn't make it to the age that my Pop is now (68) that much. 100 years ago there was a world war going on. They also thought it was "End times". They also complained about immorality. Some thought the car and telephone would be the death of us all. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by MormonGator