Remembering our pre mortal life.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

As a personal, emotional, self-aware being, I don't find it unreasonable.

Really? If someone were to, say, in mortality, come to you and tell you they could remake you but first you had to forget your prior life...everything gone forever...no memory whatsoever. Friends, family, wife, children, etc., all forgotten. But you get to be a new person with agency anew. Not unreasonable?

[Vort]

32 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Really? If someone were to, say, in mortality, come to you and tell you they could remake you but first you had to forget your prior life...everything gone forever...no memory whatsoever. Friends, family, wife, children, etc., all forgotten. But you get to be a new person with agency anew. Not unreasonable?

Let me slightly rephrase what you are saying. Someone with boundless ability promises to remake me, keeping my core essence and decision-making ability (that is, I retain my core agency), but in remaking me will of necessity rearrange my brain, destroying its current state. Since my memories physically reside in my brain, those, too, will be gone.

No, I don't find that unreasonable at all. It makes sense that such a remaking might well destroy the repository of my memories, thus wiping them out.

[The Folk Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

Let me slightly rephrase what you are saying. Someone with boundless ability promises to remake me, keeping my core essence and decision-making ability (that is, I retain my core agency), but in remaking me will of necessity rearrange my brain, destroying its current state. Since my memories physically reside in my brain, those, too, will be gone.

No, I don't find that unreasonable at all. It makes sense that such a remaking might well destroy the repository of my memories, thus wiping them out.

I can't imagine ever agreeing to such a thing. But perhaps that's a result of my weak, mortal state. Maybe when I was a spirit I was perhaps somehow more enlightened and thereby didn't give a hoot about all the people I knew and loved enough to worry about never remembering the relationships I'd developed with them.

[Vort]

18 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I can't imagine ever agreeing to such a thing. But perhaps that's a result of my weak, mortal state. Maybe when I was a spirit I was perhaps somehow more enlightened and thereby didn't give a hoot about all the people I knew and loved enough to worry about never remembering the relationships I'd developed with them.

You are not recognizing some important elements that would have or at least might have factored in, such as:

• The All-Powerful Being who offered to remake you told you that (a) it was the only way to progress to a better state, (b) if you did as commanded, you would be a great deal happier than you were at that time, and (c) you would eventually have the means, if not to recover your memories, at least to reacquire them by reviewing your own history in as much detail as you wished.
• The concept of sealing is an eternal one. As long as we're speculating on the nature of things we know little about, who's to say that our current family structures are not influenced (or perhaps entirely determined) by the nature of our premortal sealings? Surely we lived in some type of families premortally, as we do in mortality. And we know very well that we made covenants and had the opportunity to obey or rebel. It is hardly unreasonable to suppose that there was some sort of sealing power in our premortal state that we took advantage of, and that those sealings influence or determine the structure of our families today.
• We think of ourselves as being the sum of our experiences -- that is, the sum of our memories. But brief reflection will show this to be untenable from an LDS perspective; otherwise, you would have to admit that the very presence of a veil of forgetfulness, whatever its nature, turns us into different people from who we otherwise were. So we were not in danger of losing our individuality or some other angsty existential nightmare.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Vort

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

You are not recognizing some important elements that would have or at least might have factored in, such as

I recognize them. I simply disagree with the validity of their influence in the final factoring.

[Blackmarch]

21 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

IMO we will. no idea tho... I certainly hope so.
I can't think of any reason why it would be kept from us.

 

to add.
 i cannot recall any reference that would indicate that we would not get our premortal memories back nor can I think of anything at the moment where such an action would be just.

[Guest]

BM,

If I'm reading you correctly, you may be incorrectly reading the intent of the OP.  It wasn't "are we going to get our memories back at all".  It was a question of when.

OP offers:

1. At death
2. After the resurrection

But we all seem to have different ideas about when it will be.  I'm not sure what Vort and FP are talking about.  Once FP used the term "spiritual lobotomy" I zoned out.

[The Folk Prophet]

18 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Once FP used the term "spiritual lobotomy" I zoned out.

A shame. That's when it got interesting!

[Guest]

21 hours ago, unixknight said:

I've read some compelling stories of people who seem to have had some of their memories from the pre-existence while still alive here.  I don't know what triggers that or if there's a common thread, but it is pretty cool.

Well, I know of a very famous one.  It's called the Book of Abraham.  If the veil is removed from us, we can see whatever the Lord wants us to know.  But those who speak of them publicly will probably be met with suspicion because such a revelation would be so great that I believe it should be kept private (U.N.O.)

Edited February 19, 2016 by Guest

[Blackmarch]

On February 19, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Carborendum said:

BM,

If I'm reading you correctly, you may be incorrectly reading the intent of the OP.  It wasn't "are we going to get our memories back at all".  It was a question of when.

OP offers:

1. At death
2. After the resurrection

But we all seem to have different ideas about when it will be.  I'm not sure what Vort and FP are talking about.  Once FP used the term "spiritual lobotomy" I zoned out.

Ah whups... Well it would have to be before the final judgement. As to what point between then and death ive no clue.

[jeffperrygiles]

I don't know that anyone will actually read this as it's such an old thread; however, i had some thoughts and stuff to share. 

I'll start with this link:

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2015/02/to-the-point/why-cant-we-remember-our-premortal-life-as-spirits-and-when-will-those-memories-return?lang=eng

I know someone had shared some stuff by Neal A. Maxwell, which is great. He did speak on the subject matter and the are some great thoughts. 

"... this much I say, that there is a space between death and the resurrection of the body, and a state of the soul in happiness...until the time which ... the dead ...be reunited, both soul and body..."

"The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame."

Neal A. Maxwell taught that "Among the ‘all things [that] shall be restored’ will be memory, including, eventually, our premortal memories.”

"People often talk about having inklings or echoes of [our] premortality in this life when our hearts are open to the influence of the Holy Ghost."

 

Just something to think about. 

[zil]

On 2/17/2016 at 6:05 PM, zil said:

My personal belief is that in general, we won't remember until the resurrection (or thereabouts).  Otherwise, there would be no need to preach the Gospel to the spirits in prison.  I also suspect each of us will remember as we are ready to, that the veil will get thinner and thinner (or thicker and thicker, I suppose) until we are worthy of passing through it.

This goes along with my other suspicion that one of the reasons the veil is needed in order for mortality to work is to determine who is righteous away from God's presence - in other words, his presence is so powerful, that at least some of us will obey for that fact alone.  Only with the veil can we learn for ourselves what we really want, whether we're willing to live the kind of life God lives, no matter what.

All that said, the only thing I can think of from scripture or doctrine is the fact that the Gospel must be preached to the spirits in prison.  From that, I infer all the rest.

On 2/17/2016 at 8:01 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

Judgment day.

Huh.  Revisiting this thread (since someone kicked it back to life).  (Prerequisite knowledge: I believe our memory of pre-mortal eternity will be restored; I could be wrong, but it's what I believe.)  Combining above two posts made me think that perhaps removal of the veil is a significant part of damnation or exaltation in that those who receive celestial glory will rejoice in the restoration of their pre-mortal memory; those who are not worthy of that glory will likely mourn at those memories, adding to what was lost, to what could have been, etc.

[zil]

Welcome, @jeffperrygiles!

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, zil said:

Huh.  Revisiting this thread (since someone kicked it back to life).  (Prerequisite knowledge: I believe our memory of pre-mortal eternity will be restored; I could be wrong, but it's what I believe.)  Combining above two posts made me think that perhaps removal of the veil is a significant part of damnation or exaltation in that those who receive celestial glory will rejoice in the restoration of their pre-mortal memory; those who are not worthy of that glory will likely mourn at those memories, adding to what was lost, to what could have been, etc.

I think so to. I think a lot of people forget that we are an eternity of experience before this mortal life, we kept our first estates, helped to cast Satan out, cheered for the Savior's plan and the opportunity to be exalted, etc.

When we allow the carnal man to rule instead of humbling ourselves and demand that we're justified because...reasons....when the veil is lifted and we remember who we are...

(insert Moana quote:...."Who you truly are"....)

...is it any wonder there will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth?

People talk about who we become in this life as if that's the end all of who we are...forgetting that we have what eons of time "being" who we are prior to our mortal, carnal habits.

Granted, the experience of mortality is new...and the physical body is new and will remain, and the trial by faith in a carnal fallen world and a carnal fallen body, methinks, brings out who we "really" truly are, but...it won't negate the eons of memories or make it less painful when we realize who we are and how much we messed up by simply showing ourselves unwilling to humble ourselves and trust in the Lord despite our current forgetful, mortal, idiotic, carnal, lustful state.