What would it take for Jews and Muslims to reconcile?

[Guest]

On 4/22/2016 at 10:19 AM, tesuji said:

 ... What would it take for them to ever be reconciled? Perhaps a lot of Jews and Muslims might not be able to imagine this ever happening. But what would it take?I like to idealistically believe than any conflict can be resolved. Certainly, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if tensions in the Middle East went away. ...

Dabiq Magazine Issue 15 “Why we Hate You, and Why We Fight You” may be a useful source of information if we want to consider the likelihood of reconciliation. It is written to the "West" wherein they tell us why they hate us and why they fight us--and the expected end to their means and what their motivations are. (The quality of writing and the copy editing in this magazine is high quality, at least as good if not better than what we find in our top American books and magazines. This should be sobering and a very bad sign—telling us something about the caliber of people they, the so-called “bad” Muslims like ISIS, have managed to recruit.) I think this isn’t about a thousands-of-years-old dispute between two children of the same Patriarch. Nor about ages old land disputes. It has to do with questions like, “What do you want us to do?” and answers like “We want you to die”, revealing a kind of hate that isn't about “reconcilation”. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by UT.starscoper

[Latter Days Guy]

Interesting, I haven't had a look at their magazine, and won't mention it as if I did, and being in the UK I would probably be put on some watch list or worse for googling/downloading material promoting terrorism, which is a criminal offence here.  

[Guest MormonGator]

These two civilizations have hated each other for thousands of years and we (universal usage of the word, not we as in us here on this forum) think the people living right now in this era hold the key for them to turn their swords into plowshares and suddenly make peace? How arrogant. 

And for the record I vehemently support Israel. But I'm very pessimistic about the middle east. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by MormonGator

[pam]

One of my favorite videos.  Please excuse some language in this:

 

 

[Guest]

@pam I like the video a lot. And I'd like to believe about myself that I try hard (albeit imperfectly) to apply the spirit of it on a personal level face-to-face with other individuals. I believe that some day, maybe a hundred years from now the so-called reconciliation the OP hopes for may become visible. Christianity has gone through some violent times in the last two hundred years somewhat similar to what we see with Islam. I believe that the seeds of moderation are being sewn today, but sadly I fear that it's going to get bloodier and bloodier for a time before we see the full fruits of those seeds. I greatly admire the dedication of those voices that are crying out for moderation in the face of the demonic screams for extremism.

[Latter Days Guy]

On 10/29/2016 at 3:01 AM, MormonGator said:

These two civilizations have hated each other for thousands of years and we (universal usage of the word, not we as in us here on this forum) think the people living right now in this era hold the key for them to turn their swords into plowshares and suddenly make peace? How arrogant. 

And for the record I vehemently support Israel. But I'm very pessimistic about the middle east. 

I would disagree with that, the hatred has only really been apparent since the begining of the 20th Century, the root of which being the rise of zionism.  There has been down through the centuries large populations of Jews living in Muslim lands very peacefully. 

[Larry Cotrell]

3 hours ago, Latter Days Guy said:

I would disagree with that, the hatred has only really been apparent since the begining of the 20th Century, the root of which being the rise of zionism.  There has been down through the centuries large populations of Jews living in Muslim lands very peacefully. 

The Quran is a key document for understanding the Muslims. From the parts of it that I have read, it is clear that Muslims have not been on good terms with Jews for at least around 1,500 years. 

[Latter Days Guy]

20 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

The Quran is a key document for understanding the Muslims. From the parts of it that I have read, it is clear that Muslims have not been on good terms with Jews for at least around 1,500 years. 

Having read all the Qur'an I haven't a clue what you're talking about.  Also Islam hasn't been around for 1,500 years unless of course you subscribe to the Islamic tradition that Islam as a religion goes back to Adam.

[Larry Cotrell]

1 hour ago, Latter Days Guy said:

Islam hasn't been around for 1,500 years unless of course you subscribe to the Islamic tradition that Islam as a religion goes back to Adam.

The Quran was supposedly revealed to Muhammed in the beginning of the 7th century AD. And, as I am sure you know, he lived and conquered in that century, so it's been about 1,400 years. Pardon my use of about 1,500 when its really closer to 1,400; I was rounding.

1 hour ago, Latter Days Guy said:

Having read all the Qur'an I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

 

On 11/1/2016 at 3:05 PM, Latter Days Guy said:

I would disagree with that, the hatred has only really been apparent since the begining of the 20th Century, the root of which being the rise of zionism.  There has been down through the centuries large populations of Jews living in Muslim lands very peacefully. 

Consider what Muhammed did to the the tribe of Banu Quraiza. His slaughtering of the Jews is not what I would call peaceful.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Jojo Bags]

What would it take for the Muslims and Jews to reconcile?  The Second Coming of Jesus Christ.  Nothing short of that will work.

[NeuroTypical]

I see one of three ways to settle things.

1. As Jojo said, the 2nd coming.  I don't know why people look forward to it though - the scriptures surrounding it are horrifying. The Lord will burn everyone who disagrees with Him to cinders and establish His throne, and it will work, because anyone willing to resist such an imposition will be, well, burned to cinders and dead. 

2. As disdainful as it may be, humans can settle such things by destroying enough of one side so there's not enough left to have a coherent culture.  Basically, the cycle will be broken as the losing side's children grow up being taught whatever the winning side allows.  It's happened countless times through history, it's a totally feasible solution.  Just a really horrible solution.

3.  Something like Pam said.  Or maybe this guy.  #3 is my preferred solution. 

 

[Latter Days Guy]

19 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

The Quran was supposedly revealed to Muhammed in the beginning of the 7th century AD. And, as I am sure you know, he lived and conquered in that century, so it's been about 1,400 years. Pardon my use of about 1,500 when its really closer to 1,400; I was rounding.

 

Consider what Muhammed did to the the tribe of Banu Quraiza. His slaughtering of the Jews is not what I would call peaceful.

Considering what they did, an act of treason, then they suffered the consequence of their actions, that's if the event actually even happened as many now doubt the historicity of the event or that if it did happen that the numbers killed were exaggerated by the living relatives of those killed. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Latter Days Guy said:

Considering what they did, an act of treason, then they suffered the consequence of their actions, that's if the event actually even happened as many now doubt the historicity of the event or that if it did happen that the numbers killed were exaggerated by the living relatives of those killed. 

They were charged with treason by the Muslims in an area the Jews settled prior to Muslim occupation.  Therefore they had no governing authority in the area except by Muslim decree.

"many now doubt..."  Ermmm..  How about "Many Muslim Revisionists now doubt..."

Just whom are you listening to?

[Latter Days Guy]

On 11/3/2016 at 8:10 PM, Carborendum said:

They were charged with treason by the Muslims in an area the Jews settled prior to Muslim occupation.  Therefore they had no governing authority in the area except by Muslim decree.

"many now doubt..."  Ermmm..  How about "Many Muslim Revisionists now doubt..."

Just whom are you listening to?

There was no muslim occupation, Muhammad (PBUH) had been invited to Yathrib and he did so with about 70 followers, hardly an occupation force. That the Muslim population increased dramatically was through conversion of the indigenous arabs and many jews.  

Why is there such an anti-islam undertone on this site?   

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Latter Days Guy said:

There was no muslim occupation, Muhammad (PBUH) had been invited to Yathrib and he did so with about 70 followers, hardly an occupation force. That the Muslim population increased dramatically was through conversion of the indigenous arabs and many jews.  

Why is there such an anti-islam undertone on this site?   

That's no different than asking you: Why is there such an anti-Jewish undertone in your posts?  How's that any different?  

Just because I'm taking the Jewish side vs. the Muslim side on this ONE issue, does not mean I'm anti-islam.

[Latter Days Guy]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

That's no different than asking you: Why is there such an anti-Jewish undertone in your posts?  How's that any different?  

Just because I'm taking the Jewish side vs. the Muslim side on this ONE issue, does not mean I'm anti-islam.

That's the thing, I'm not anti-jewish, I'm very pro jewish.  

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Latter Days Guy said:

That's the thing, I'm not anti-jewish, I'm very pro jewish.  

And I'm not anti-Islam, so what's your point?

[Larry Cotrell]

No one can make the claim that Muhammad was a man of peace. He lead many military conquests, conquered Mecca, and raided caravans. He even beat his favorite wife Aisha (Sahih 4:2127).

He was a violent man.

 

[Latter Days Guy]

51 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

No one can make the claim that Muhammad was a man of peace. He lead many military conquests, conquered Mecca, and raided caravans. He even beat his favorite wife Aisha (Sahih 4:2127).

He was a violent man.

 

Did he really? Has one been quaffing the cool-aid?  He certainly conquered Makkah, unarmed. Yes, in times of conflict caravans on both sides were raided.

[Larry Cotrell]

45 minutes ago, Latter Days Guy said:

Did he really? Has one been quaffing the cool-aid?  He certainly conquered Makkah, unarmed. Yes, in times of conflict caravans on both sides were raided.

How can you read suwar like Al-Baqarah and At-Tawbah and say there's no violence in the Quran? Muslims are called to make war on the "infidels" (Surah 9:5). It's what Muhammad taught.

Maybe someone is quaffing the cool-aid, but it's not me.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Latter Days Guy]

3 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

How can you read suwar like Al-Baqarah and At-Tawbah and say there's no violence in the Quran? Muslims are called to make war on the "infidels" (Surah 9:5). It's what Muhammad taught.

Maybe someone is quaffing the cool-aid, but it's not me.

Context?  Cherry picking surah without looking at the context is a bit like when those nasty people quote from the bible and do the same.  What is the context of that particular passage, do you even know?  And it doesn't say infidels, it says idolaters. 

This link gives you a clear interpretation of the whole passage, not some out of context snippet. 

https://discover-the-truth.com/2014/03/04/quran-95-sword-verse/

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Latter Days Guy
spelling

[Latter Days Guy]

3 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

How can you read suwar like Al-Baqarah and At-Tawbah and say there's no violence in the Quran? 

Compared to the old testament its pretty tame in the violence department.

[CV75]

On 4/22/2016 at 0:19 PM, tesuji said:

OK, this question is straying into politics, which I am trying to generally avoid. But --

Of course Muslims and Jews have a lot of trouble now getting along, based on what I read in the news. What would it take for them to ever be reconciled? Perhaps a lot of Jews and Muslims might not be able to imagine this ever happening. But what would it take?

I like to idealistically believe than any conflict can be resolved. Certainly, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if tensions in the Middle East went away.

I also understand that this is an emotional and frustrating question for many Jews and Muslims. I apologize if this question causes distress or offense. I guess for fairness we could hope both Jews and Muslims might drop by to give their thoughts on this...

I think they would have to embrace the tenets of their mutual father, Abraham -- the covenant was made with him before either Ishmael and Isaac were born. The same goes for any of us since we must eventually recognize him as our father, whether by lineage or adoption, in that this priesthood covenant represents God's blessing extended to all mankind through the merits of His Son, Jesus Christ.

[DennisTate]

On 4/22/2016 at 1:19 PM, tesuji said:

OK, this question is straying into politics, which I am trying to generally avoid. But --

Of course Muslims and Jews have a lot of trouble now getting along, based on what I read in the news. What would it take for them to ever be reconciled? Perhaps a lot of Jews and Muslims might not be able to imagine this ever happening. But what would it take?

I like to idealistically believe than any conflict can be resolved. Certainly, the world would be a safer and more peaceful place if tensions in the Middle East went away.

I also understand that this is an emotional and frustrating question for many Jews and Muslims. I apologize if this question causes distress or offense. I guess for fairness we could hope both Jews and Muslims might drop by to give their thoughts on this...

The threat of rising ocean levels.....

the prediction of deserts being turned green in Isaiah chapter 35.....

the massive salt water desalination facility in Israel named Sorek......

an 4.3 trillion USA  petro-dollars in the hands of enemies to America who wish to devalue the USA dollar.......

AND.... an ancient Islamic prediction set the stage for some interesting dialogue at minimum:

 

Quote

Book 005, Number 2208:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers.
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by DennisTate
bad spelling....