Universal Health Care

[Alaskagain]

Everyone who pays a health insurance premium is already "chipping in" to help make up the uncollected fees from the uninsured who don't, won't or can't pay their medical bills. Or at least that's one excuse the health insurance companies use to raise premiums.

My question is: Why should the federal government be responsible for health care? Every time the federal government gets involved, another layer of bureaucracy is created, the rules become overcomplicated because of special interest lobbyists, and many dollars (and other resources)are wasted, and none of us feel like we can do anything about it because the problem is in Washington. Look at the FDA. Look at Medicare. Look at the Medicare Prescription Program. Look at Medicaid. If the government must be involved in health insurance, let it be on the state and local level, where it can be controlled more easily by the local citizenry.

Yes, I agree that any person should be able to obtain adequate health care. It does not matter to me whether they work, or whether they parent well.

If someone can't work, is disabled, has no or limited or low income, then yes, there should be a public health program available for their needs. All of their medical needs, not just some of their needs, which is the way Medicaid and Medicare are set up now. Again, these are federally based programs, which should be totally under state jurisdiction.

If you can't find a health care provider in your community who will treat you for what you can afford to pay, then do something about it. Negotiate with a family doctor to pay him $x a month for family care before you need it. Contact your local health department (every county has one) and work to get a public health clinic in your area for the uninsured. Join with 100 of your other uninsured friends to form a group to get lower rates on health insurance; get a quote from every single one of the health insurance companies authorized to do business in your state. Set up a self-help medical fund amongst your trustworthy family and friends to help each cover basic costs or high deductibles with your monthly contribution. Find out what programs your local hospital has, many offer basic wellness care and other health programs. Hospitals that are chartered as "not for profit" are very nearly always required to accept monthly payments for reduced charges in hardship cases (and "hardship" can be loosely defined), or they risk losing their corporate status as granted by their state.

There's a lot I don't like about health care today. There are problems out there, but why make the government come up with the solutions when we have so many intelligent private citizens in this rich powerful nation of ours?

[sgallan]

I believe and know there is part of a culture out there that does care about people....but I don't recall the test being whether they would toss everyone free healthcare....

Your "blow off everything I have had to say so far" with a pithy one liner, sort of makes my point. People say they care.... but when they can cavalierly dismiss 30,000,000 or more people under the gun.... then that is just lip service. I find it ironic you would call me to task when you take a similar position as me. Stuff happens. People die. Some of them needlessly..... so what? If it is in fron to of you, you might care. But otherwise it is just a stat. I am cool with that. You seem to take offense with it, but accept the reality nonetheless. At least I am being honest.

[Palerider]

Your "blow off everything I have had to say so far" with a pithy one liner, sort of makes my point. People say they care.... but when they can cavalierly dismiss 30,000,000 or more people under the gun.... then that is just lip service. I find it ironic you would call me to task when you take a similar position as me. Stuff happens. People die. Some of them needlessly..... so what? If it is in fron to of you, you might care. But otherwise it is just a stat. I am cool with that. You seem to take offense with it, but accept the reality nonetheless. At least I am being honest.

Your "blow off everything I have had to say so far" with a pithy one liner, sort of makes my point. People say they care.... but when they can cavalierly dismiss 30,000,000 or more people under the gun.... then that is just lip service. I find it ironic you would call me to task when you take a similar position as me. Stuff happens. People die. Some of them needlessly..... so what? If it is in fron to of you, you might care. But otherwise it is just a stat. I am cool with that. You seem to take offense with it, but accept the reality nonetheless. At least I am being honest.

I believe and know there is part of a culture out there that does care about people....but I don't recall the test being whether they would toss everyone free healthcare....

Your "blow off everything I have had to say so far" with a pithy one liner, sort of makes my point. People say they care.... but when they can cavalierly dismiss 30,000,000 or more people under the gun.... then that is just lip service. I find it ironic you would call me to task when you take a similar position as me. Stuff happens. People die. Some of them needlessly..... so what? If it is in fron to of you, you might care. But otherwise it is just a stat. I am cool with that. You seem to take offense with it, but accept the reality nonetheless. At least I am being honest.

Your "blow off everything I have had to say so far" with a pithy one liner, sort of makes my point. People say they care.... but when they can cavalierly dismiss 30,000,000 or more people under the gun.... then that is just lip service. I find it ironic you would call me to task when you take a similar position as me. Stuff happens. People die. Some of them needlessly..... so what? If it is in fron to of you, you might care. But otherwise it is just a stat. I am cool with that. You seem to take offense with it, but accept the reality nonetheless. At least I am being honest.

[/quote

honest or tunnel vision

[sgallan]

Huh? Oh I see. You are trolling me now. Hey.... if I annoy you to much please invite me to leave anytime. I'll go. I already know the regulars can't take me for long.

If someone can't work, is disabled, has no or limited or low income, then yes, there should be a public health program available for their needs. All of their medical needs, not just some of their needs, which is the way Medicaid and Medicare are set up now. Again, these are federally based programs, which should be totally under state jurisdiction.

Good idea. Maybe I should just quit working and go on the dole for awhile. That way I can have health care.

[Alaskagain]

Because when you hit a certain age it becomes a life or death situation for those who worry about such things. I could have prostrate cancer, a heart condition, or any number of treatable conditions, that aren't getting diagnosed, that hit people my age all of the time, but I'll never know until it's to late, because I can't afford it. Like I said; I don't give a crap.

Obviously, you don't. You are afraid to get a physical. And you don't care if you leave an orphaned daughter because you won't make arrangements to go to a doctor?

[sgallan]

I can't afford a physical (it is a long story that I won't bore you with). Those things a expensive when you don't have insurance. And the kid comes first. It's a calculated risk. What do you care anyhow? I sure as heck don't care what might happen to you.

[Elphaba]

"I would like to work part time so I can spend time with my children. . . ." "So if we all work less. . . ."

Ben, you sound like you think the working poor (the families Scott and I are talking about) only work part-time. This is not true.

They work full-time. However, they work at jobs that do not pay living wages.

Over the last 30 years, the number of jobs that do not pay a living wage has increased dramatically. In the U.S., as many as 25 percent of all jobs pay less than a poverty-level income, the report says. In some states, as many as 30 percent do not pay a living wage. A living wage takes into account differences in the cost of living across areas of the U.S. In many communities, the national minimum wage of $5.15 per hour provides an income insufficient to support individuals or families, the report says. *

And unfortunately, none of these jobs provide health insurance.

Elphaba

*Penn State, Number of Working Poor Families Growing in America

Poverty in America, One Nation Pulling Apart

[the Ogre]

SG, as a single father (with my kids), I've heard a lot of what you are saying. It would be easier if there were a National Health Care Program, but how would we do it? What Europe and Asia has is mediocre if not pointless.

I dislike that health care in the US is class-based, but we as Americans have decided that it is something we do not want. Is it because the rich make the rules? IS it because many people do not want the federal government to dictate to them their health care choices?

I would like something in place, but I do not want it to be as big a failure as our educational system is where people who live in certain areas have better schools because the people in those areas pay more property taxes. If we put doctors on the same type of salary as teachers, then the doctors are most likely going to care as much as teachers. There are many good and caring teachers, but there are even more mediocre and lazy ones. I do not want this to happen to doctors (even though insurance companies are already doing this).

It is not a all or nothing deal. I want something. I am tired of being poor and having no options, but at the same time, there do not seem to be many options that will work.

[Palerider]

<div class='quotemain'>"I would like to work part time so I can spend time with my children. . . ." "So if we all work less. . . ."

Ben, you sound like you think the working poor (the families Scott and I are talking about) only work part-time. This is not true.

They work full-time. However, they work at jobs that do not pay living wages.

Over the last 30 years, the number of jobs that do not pay a living wage has increased dramatically. In the U.S., as many as 25 percent of all jobs pay less than a poverty-level income, the report says. In some states, as many as 30 percent do not pay a living wage. A living wage takes into account differences in the cost of living across areas of the U.S. In many communities, the national minimum wage of $5.15 per hour provides an income insufficient to support individuals or families, the report says. *

And unfortunately, none of these jobs provide health insurance.

Elphaba

*Penn State, Number of Working Poor Families Growing in America

Poverty in America, One Nation Pulling Apart

hey Emma....before you accuse Ben of something....first ask him to explain why said what he did......I know his reason for that statment you are taking issue with.....but let him explain it.....

[sgallan]

the ogre -

Massachusetts has something. California is working that way. It doesn't have to be federal. Maybe state by state. But I would think it should be something. I am seious when I say my views.... I guess I am becoming a bit of a nihilist. But there are many who really want to live and are really really scared.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>"I would like to work part time so I can spend time with my children. . . ." "So if we all work less. . . ."

Ben, you sound like you think the working poor (the families Scott and I are talking about) only work part-time. This is not true.

They work full-time. However, they work at jobs that do not pay living wages.

Over the last 30 years, the number of jobs that do not pay a living wage has increased dramatically. In the U.S., as many as 25 percent of all jobs pay less than a poverty-level income, the report says. In some states, as many as 30 percent do not pay a living wage. A living wage takes into account differences in the cost of living across areas of the U.S. In many communities, the national minimum wage of $5.15 per hour provides an income insufficient to support individuals or families, the report says. *

And unfortunately, none of these jobs provide health insurance.

Elphaba

*Penn State, Number of Working Poor Families Growing in America

Poverty in America, One Nation Pulling Apart

hey Emma....before you accuse Ben of something....first ask him to explain why said what he did......I know his reason for that statment you are taking issue with.....but let him explain it.....

You're right, Pale.

If I misunderstood you Ben, my apologies.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>"I would like to work part time so I can spend time with my children. . . ." "So if we all work less. . . ."

Ben, you sound like you think the working poor (the families Scott and I are talking about) only work part-time. This is not true.

They work full-time. However, they work at jobs that do not pay living wages.

Over the last 30 years, the number of jobs that do not pay a living wage has increased dramatically. In the U.S., as many as 25 percent of all jobs pay less than a poverty-level income, the report says. In some states, as many as 30 percent do not pay a living wage. A living wage takes into account differences in the cost of living across areas of the U.S. In many communities, the national minimum wage of $5.15 per hour provides an income insufficient to support individuals or families, the report says. *

And unfortunately, none of these jobs provide health insurance.

Elphaba

we have to stop this agreeing....another hole in the wall......LOL!!!!!!!

*Penn State, Number of Working Poor Families Growing in America

Poverty in America, One Nation Pulling Apart

hey Emma....before you accuse Ben of something....first ask him to explain why said what he did......I know his reason for that statment you are taking issue with.....but let him explain it.....

You're right, Pale.

If I misunderstood you Ben, my apologies.

Elphaba

we have to stop this agreeing stuff.......another hole in the wall........LOL!!!!

[Elphaba]

we have to stop this agreeing stuff.......another hole in the wall........LOL!!!!

I think I'll just get you a purple boxing glove with fru fru on it. That ought to save your wall.

"Emma"

[Palerider]

<div class='quotemain'>we have to stop this agreeing stuff.......another hole in the wall........LOL!!!!

I think I'll just get you a purple boxing glove with fru fru on it. That ought to save your wall.

"Emma"

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elphaba]

I came across this video that demonstrates exactly the person who is at risk. i.e., just about everyone except the rich. This woman actually had insurance, but it wouldn't cover her.

Elphaba

[Elphaba]

Just an FYI, here is a health care status report from the U.S. Census Bureau:

The number of people without health insurance coverage rose from 44.8 million (15.3 percent) in 2005 to 47 million (15.8 percent) in 2006.

Note that the number of people without insurance is growing both as a raw number and as a percentage of the population. In other words, the problem is getting worse.

U.S. Census Bureau Report on Poverty and Health Insurance

I'm just putting this out there as information. I don't pretend to have a solution, but again, I would pay higher taxes if it meant all of these people were insured.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

I came across this video that demonstrates exactly the person who is at risk. i.e., just about everyone except the rich. This woman actually had insurance, but it wouldn't cover her.

Elphaba

I am not rich....we have insurance......at times I do not like how it pays.....and I still do not want universal health....I have seen how it works and I still don't like it.

[Moksha]

What do you care anyhow? I sure as heck don't care what might happen to you.

There is a broader consideration for the welfare of others when it is part of your belief system. Of course, this is not necessarily attached to any religious group. I think it is mostly up to the individual believer.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

I came across this video that demonstrates exactly the person who is at risk. i.e., just about everyone except the rich. This woman actually had insurance, but it wouldn't cover her.

Elphaba

I am not rich....we have insurance......at times I do not like how it pays.....and I still do not want universal health....I have seen how it works and I still don't like it.

That's fine Pale. We disagree. It happens.

Elphaba

[sgallan]

There is a broader consideration for the welfare of others when it is part of your belief system.

I ahven't really seen much of that on this thread. As for me, I think I pretty much live that way with the 'stuff' I do. Even if I am mostly discouraged with the general humanity of the country I live in. It's a pretty country though with lots of stuff to do and see, so I hang around anyhow.

[prisonchaplain]

I wonder if opinions would be different if most of us were not afraid that Universal Healthcare would only expensively mess up the uneven, but sometimes brilliant medical system we have? In other words, the time is ripe, imho, for a healthcare plan that would provide some level of catasphrophic healthcare for the poorest citizens, while only raising taxes modestly.

Some would oppose any such thing, but many Americans are coming to realize that when a full-time semi-skilled worker cannot get affordable coverage something is desparately wrong.

[the Ogre]

the ogre -

Massachusetts has something. California is working that way. It doesn't have to be federal. Maybe state by state. But I would think it should be something. I am seious when I say my views.... I guess I am becoming a bit of a nihilist. But there are many who really want to live and are really really scared.

Maybe state systems would work, but will be fraught with problems. In Utah we have those stupid fees parents have to pay making education not completely free punishing the lower middle class (the poor like me don't have to pay them and for the rich the fees are nothing). I do not want something this stupid applied to health care.