Traveler Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 10 hours ago, Zarahemla said: I follow the church that's led by Thomas S Monson. But D&C 132 is part of our scriptures and 10 of our 16 prophets have plural temple sealings. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F Smith, Heber J Grant, Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B Lee, and Howard W Hunter all have plural sealings in the temple and expect all their wives in heaven. Also the next 2 in line to be prophet Russell M Nelson and Dallin H Oaks are sealed to multiple women. That's a high percentage of prophets who are expecting polygamy in the eternities and if they have that blessing why cant others have the same blessings? That creates jealousy in some people. I am inclined to think that many brethren looking forward to polygamy – do so in error – perhaps thinking that it would help difficulties they are currently experiencing (causing) in their marriage. I personally find marriage sufficiently challenging and difficult enough that I must rely more upon the goodness and understanding of my wife than I ought. The sacrifices necessary for one wife is enough for me; all this despite the fact that I have calculated the if only physical was taken into account I and my current spouse would likely be happier with about 20 sister wives – but PLEASE do not ever mention this to her. The Traveler
zil Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Traveler said: I have calculated the if only physical was taken into account I and my current spouse would likely be happier with about 20 sister wives – but PLEASE do not ever mention this to her. You do realize that 20 more people wouldn't just accomplish what 20 more people could accomplish but would require what 20 more people need (generate 20 more people's worth of work, trash, consumption, etc.), right? And if you think they'll help with the kids, remember that there will be all those women's children too. IMO, economy of scale doesn't really work with polygamy, and I don't think it ever was meant to. It always baffles me when people talk as if more wives would somehow cut down on the work any one person had to do. NeedleinA 1
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 1 hour ago, zil said: You do realize that 20 more people wouldn't just accomplish what 20 more people could accomplish but would require what 20 more people need (generate 20 more people's worth of work, trash, consumption, etc.), right? And if you think they'll help with the kids, remember that there will be all those women's children too. IMO, economy of scale doesn't really work with polygamy, and I don't think it ever was meant to. It always baffles me when people talk as if more wives would somehow cut down on the work any one person had to do. I don't know. I believe the principle of synergy shouldn't be under-estimated here. From what I understand of the time, it really did help.
zil Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I don't know. I believe the principle of synergy shouldn't be under-estimated here. From what I understand of the time, it really did help. Maybe, but instead of quality time with 1 wife and 4 children, you now have to figure out quality time with 20 wives and 80 children. I guess you can just cram them all into the equivalent of an 80-kid nursery, but it doesn't seem like you get the benefit of scale unless you treat them as a mass rather than as individuals. That might work well for laundry and food-prep, but I'm not sure it works for relationships. I'm just not sure the whole picture translates into our reality well. The eternities is a whole 'nother matter - I mean really, how many eons can you spend with one guy before you feel like saying, "Don't you have another wife you could pester?" NeedleinA 1
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, zil said: I'm just not sure the whole picture translates into our reality well. The eternities is a whole 'nother matter - I mean really, how many eons can you spend with one guy before you feel like saying, "Don't you have another wife you could pester?" That is a perfect argument for why it may work better in Heaven than on Earth.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 5 hours ago, Carborendum said: Whether you're talking about yourself or some hypothetical someone, I don't see how one person is blessed more or less because of the number of wives one has or how many earthly children for that matter. Do you honestly believe that a family with two or three kids is jealous of me because I have seven or vice-versa? Why is it any different with the number of wives? I fear you're placing earthly values and judgment onto Eternal Life. And I don't agree with this interpretation. Why you seem to be fixated on polygamy is beyond me. YES! It is an inspired practice. But by basic math alone, no man is commanded to practice it for the sake of practicing it. It is commanded when the conditions are right. Right now, the conditions aren't right. This has been said a dozen times in this thread and you keep asking the same question as if it hasn't been answered. It has, but because it isn't the answer you like, you keep bringing up the same things you've already brought up as if we haven't read the D&C or don't know Church history. Do you honestly WANT a second wife? Why? Pray, tell. I'm talking living polygamy during the Millennium and in the Celestial Kingdom, not in mortality. And I believe having more than one wife and the ability to have more spirit children at a time adds to the fulness of joy exaltation talks about. I either wish polygamy was never practiced and everyone is limited to one spouse in the Celestial Kingdom, or I wish everyone has the chance to live polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom. For me it comes down to others having more of a fulness of joy.
Just_A_Guy Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Carborendum said: I don't see how one person is blessed more or less because of the number of wives one has or how many earthly children for that matter. Do you honestly believe that a family with two or three kids is jealous of me because I have seven or vice-versa? Why is it any different with the number of wives? Threadjack, but . . . People's individual jealousies are their own affair; but when it comes to children--subject only to limitations imposed by an individual parent's means or abilities, I think our theology is pretty clear that more is definitely better. Edited August 1, 2016 by Just_A_Guy
LeSellers Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, Zarahemla said: the Millennium and in the Celestial Kingdom, not in mortality. You understand that the Millennium is mortality. Lehi mordorbund 1
LeSellers Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, Zarahemla said: the Millennium and in the Celestial Kingdom, not in mortality. You understand that the Millennium is mortality. Lehi
nuclearfuels Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Posted August 1, 2016 On 7/22/2016 at 4:16 PM, MormonGator said: So, Elizabeth-May I call you Big E? Ow! My head! Big E and Big MG and I guess Big Z, Still new here but not quite sure how we're supposed to magically know the gender of all other users, even the androgynous ones, as well as the past spiritual history of other users (Big E, this refers to my attempted conversation with Godless.)
nuclearfuels Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Posted August 1, 2016 On 7/22/2016 at 4:16 PM, MormonGator said: So, Elizabeth-May I call you Big E? Ow! My head! Big E and Big MG and I guess Big Z, Still new here but not quite sure how we're supposed to magically know the gender of all other users, even the androgynous ones, as well as the past spiritual history of other users (Big E, this refers to my attempted conversation with Godless.)
nuclearfuels Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Posted August 1, 2016 1 hour ago, zil said: Maybe, but instead of quality time with 1 wife and 4 children, you now have to figure out quality time with 20 wives and 80 children. I guess you can just cram them all into the equivalent of an 80-kid nursery, but it doesn't seem like you get the benefit of scale unless you treat them as a mass rather than as individuals. That might work well for laundry and food-prep, but I'm not sure it works for relationships. I'm just not sure the whole picture translates into our reality well. The eternities is a whole 'nother matter - I mean really, how many eons can you spend with one guy before you feel like saying, "Don't you have another wife you could pester?" Seems like many if not all couples, of all religions actually, could use some time when their spouses pester other people, be they additional spouses or others in church ball...
nuclearfuels Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Posted August 1, 2016 1 hour ago, zil said: Maybe, but instead of quality time with 1 wife and 4 children, you now have to figure out quality time with 20 wives and 80 children. I guess you can just cram them all into the equivalent of an 80-kid nursery, but it doesn't seem like you get the benefit of scale unless you treat them as a mass rather than as individuals. That might work well for laundry and food-prep, but I'm not sure it works for relationships. I'm just not sure the whole picture translates into our reality well. The eternities is a whole 'nother matter - I mean really, how many eons can you spend with one guy before you feel like saying, "Don't you have another wife you could pester?" Seems like many if not all couples, of all religions actually, could use some time when their spouses pester other people, be they additional spouses or others in church ball...
Guest MormonGator Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said: Big E and Big MG and I guess Big Z, Still new here but not quite sure how we're supposed to magically know the gender of all other users, even the androgynous ones, as well as the past spiritual history of other users (Big E, this refers to my attempted conversation with Godless.) You are new here, and of course I should have given you more time to get to know us. I apologize. However, being new here, you need to remember that we don't know you either. You are still establishing your reputation here. You need to be careful and watch your attitude until we get to know you better as well.
LeSellers Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, Zarahemla said: the Millennium and in the Celestial Kingdom, not in mortality. You understand that the Millennium is mortality. Lehi nuclearfuels 1
nuclearfuels Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Posted August 1, 2016 be careful, Big C. Only some p 2 hours ago, Carborendum said: I don't know. I believe the principle of synergy shouldn't be under-estimated here. From what I understand of the time, it really did help. No, thanks.
nuclearfuels Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Posted August 1, 2016 be careful, Big C. Only some scientific principles are welcome here. 2 hours ago, Carborendum said: I don't know. I believe the principle of synergy shouldn't be under-estimated here. From what I understand of the time, it really did help.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 48 minutes ago, Zarahemla said: I'm talking living polygamy during the Millennium and in the Celestial Kingdom, not in mortality. And I believe having more than one wife and the ability to have more spirit children at a time adds to the fulness of joy exaltation talks about. I either wish polygamy was never practiced and everyone is limited to one spouse in the Celestial Kingdom, or I wish everyone has the chance to live polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom. For me it comes down to others having more of a fulness of joy. That ... apparently ... means ... absolutely nothing. So, let me ask specific questions that sparked my previous post. 1) When you speak of "jealousy", what are you talking about? Do you mean that some men who "only" have one wife will somehow be less blessed in eternity than those who have more than one? How? 2) When you say polygamy will provide a more fulness of joy, please expound.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 12 minutes ago, Carborendum said: Do you mean that some men who "only" have one wife will somehow be less blessed in eternity than those who have more than one? How? More children in less time. I have 2 problems with this: 1) Time is supposed to be irrelevant in the Eternities. 2) I am not a breeding cow. My husband wants to be with me because he loves me.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 34 minutes ago, Carborendum said: That ... apparently ... means ... absolutely nothing. So, let me ask specific questions that sparked my previous post. 1) When you speak of "jealousy", what are you talking about? Do you mean that some men who "only" have one wife will somehow be less blessed in eternity than those who have more than one? How? 2) When you say polygamy will provide a more fulness of joy, please expound. 1. More people to love is better than just 1 person to love and share love with. 2. More people to love = more fullness of joy. The whole point of polygamy is to raise up a righteous posterity and imagine all the spirit children you can have and worlds without end you can populate with more than one spouse. The whole joy of exaltation is expanding the family unit. Besides, why should some people get the opportunity to live that way and other worthy people don't get that chance? That doesn't seem fair.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 9 minutes ago, Zarahemla said: 1. More people to love is better than just 1 person to love and share love with. Does that mean your wives should get other husbands, too? In the name of fairness.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zarahemla said: 1. More people to love is better than just 1 person to love and share love with. 2. More people to love = more fullness of joy. The whole point of polygamy is to raise up a righteous posterity and imagine all the spirit children you can have and worlds without end you can populate with more than one spouse. The whole joy of exaltation is expanding the family unit. Besides, why should some people get the opportunity to live that way and other worthy people don't get that chance? That doesn't seem fair. So, you're saying that (hypothetically) if you have only one wife in the Celestial Kingdom, you'll somehow feel gypped? Amazing. You'll have glory added upon your head forever as an exalted being. But you'll feel it's "not fair" because you "only" have one wife. Wow. When you say it's not fair, I wonder what your basis for comparison is. Edited August 1, 2016 by Guest
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Carborendum said: So, you're saying that (hypothetically) if you have only one wife in the Celestial Kingdom, you'll somehow feel gypped? Amazing. You'll have glory added upon your head forever as an exalted being. But you'll feel it's "not fair" because you "only" have one wife. Wow. When you say it's not fair, I wonder what your basis for comparison is. Everyone that has more and more wives is my obvious basis of comparison. Why should Heber C Kimball get 43 wives in eternity and me only 1 if I'm lucky.
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Posted August 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Eowyn said: Does that mean your wives should get other husbands, too? In the name of fairness. D&C 132 says if women and Emma partake of multiple husbands they will be destroyed. It's straight from the Prophet Joseph Smiths mouth through the Lord Jesus Christ in canonized scripture so take your complaints up with the Lord. Unless you feel Joseph Smith lied.
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