Will polygamy be re-instituted after plagues of the last days wipe out a lot of the earth's population?

[nuclearfuels]

My father was often called a prophet, and years ago in Nauvoo I heard him predict that it would yet become a law of this nation that men should marry a plurality of wives.

The Prophet Joseph was heard to say that in consequence of wars and disasters, men would become so scarce that when one was seen it would be said of him, “There goes a man.”

The following we read in Isaiah: “Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn: and she being desolate, shall sit upon the ground. And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man saying: We will eat our own bread and wear our own apparel, only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.”

If “coming events cast their shadows before,” we certainly have no cause to doubt the speedy fulfillment of this prediction. The first great commandment given by the Creator has nearly become obsolete among professed Christians, who set themselves up as our judges, and assume to be followers of the meek and lowly Jesus, but instead, have departed from His precepts, choosing only such portions of the scriptures as happen to suit their own ideas, and ignoring the rest; while the Latter-day Saints, whom they call heretics, accept it entirely, and believe it to be their duty to obey every requirement of the gospel held forth by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Instead of spiritualizing it, we believe it means exactly what it says in both the Old and the New Testaments. As other sects have already followed in the footsteps of the “Mormons” in certain of their doctrines, we need not be surprised to eventually hear of their advocating and legalizing polygamy.

Great exertions have been made by them to enlighten the minds of the awfully ignorant and depraved “Mormons,” who have rightly appreciated the same and also realize how much more interest they have taken in our behalf since they found that instead of perishing, as they had hoped we would, we were still living and increasing in wealth, power and influence, away off here in the valleys of the Rocky Mountains. They send their Bible agents for the purpose, as we suppose, of convincing us of our errors by the scriptures, for which we are thankful, as we are more than anxious that the rising generation in Zion should understand the scriptures, as our doctrine is founded upon that sacred record.

Woman’s Exponent, vol. 10, no. 11,
1 November 1881, p. 83

Jeni Broberg Holzapfel and Richard Neitzel Holzapfel, eds., A Woman’s View: Helen Mar Whitney’s Reminiscences of Early Church History (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1997), 135–239.

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/womans-view-helen-mar-whitneys-reminiscences-early-church-history/5-scenes-and-incidents

[Guest]

I see why you chose the name you did.

[nuclearfuels]

#Not an answer.

Boom.

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by nuclearfuels

[Guest]

Boom?

[nuclearfuels]

#still not an answer

#re-elect Eowyn

[Guest]

#Allwivesmatter

[Jane_Doe]

Hint: polygamy doesn't increase population.

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

My father was often called a prophet, and years ago in Nauvoo I heard him predict that it would yet become a law of this nation that men should marry a plurality of wives.

The Prophet Joseph was heard to say that in consequence of wars and disasters, men would become so scarce that when one was seen it would be said of him, “There goes a man.”

The following we read in Isaiah: “Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn: and she being desolate, shall sit upon the ground. And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man saying: We will eat our own bread and wear our own apparel, only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.”

If “coming events cast their shadows before,” we certainly have no cause to doubt the speedy fulfillment of this prediction. The first great commandment given by the Creator has nearly become obsolete among professed Christians, who set themselves up as our judges, and assume to be followers of the meek and lowly Jesus, but instead, have departed from His precepts, choosing only such portions of the scriptures as happen to suit their own ideas, and ignoring the rest; while the Latter-day Saints, whom they call heretics, accept it entirely, and believe it to be their duty to obey every requirement of the gospel held forth by our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Instead of spiritualizing it, we believe it means exactly what it says in both the Old and the New Testaments. As other sects have already followed in the footsteps of the “Mormons” in certain of their doctrines, we need not be surprised to eventually hear of their advocating and legalizing polygamy.

Great exertions have been made by them to enlighten the minds of the awfully ignorant and depraved “Mormons,” who have rightly appreciated the same and also realize how much more interest they have taken in our behalf since they found that instead of perishing, as they had hoped we would, we were still living and increasing in wealth, power and influence, away off here in the valleys of the Rocky Mountains. They send their Bible agents for the purpose, as we suppose, of convincing us of our errors by the scriptures, for which we are thankful, as we are more than anxious that the rising generation in Zion should understand the scriptures, as our doctrine is founded upon that sacred record.

Woman’s Exponent, vol. 10, no. 11,
1 November 1881, p. 83

Jeni Broberg Holzapfel and Richard Neitzel Holzapfel, eds., A Woman’s View: Helen Mar Whitney’s Reminiscences of Early Church History (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1997), 135–239.

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/womans-view-helen-mar-whitneys-reminiscences-early-church-history/5-scenes-and-incidents

If one begins with an uncertain inaccurate premise there is no possibility for a certain and accurate conclusion – even if for a time the conclusion seems a plausible explanation for things seeming to be or interpreted to be.

The Traveler

[Guest]

3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

My father was often called a prophet, and years ago in Nauvoo I heard him predict that it would yet become a law of this nation that men should marry a plurality of wives.

The Prophet Joseph was heard to say that in consequence of wars and disasters, men would become so scarce that when one was seen it would be said of him, “There goes a man.”

The following we read in Isaiah: “Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn: and she being desolate, shall sit upon the ground. And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man saying: We will eat our own bread and wear our own apparel, only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.”...

It won't happen in your lifetime either way.  Why so curious?  Even if it does, by your own quotes, you'll probably be dead anyway.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Guest

[tesuji]

"Will polygamy be re-instituted after plagues of the last days wipe out a lot of the earth's population?"

Nobody knows. Why are you asking off-the-wall questions today?

[Edspringer]

The Lord is the One who makes the covenants with men and defines its conditions. We have no power on this, except we accept the terms God had established in that covenant.

Plural marriage, as taught in the Book of Mormon by the prophet Jacob, is established by divine command only and under divine rules and boundaries. So when the Lord decides it’s time to set it again upon the earth it will be so. The faithful will follow His commandment and proceed according to the truths revealed on the matter.

Only our Father in Heaven has the power to reestablish plural marriage upon the earth again and for specific purposes: to raise just posterity to the Lord and replenish the earth.

[nuclearfuels]

17 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

#Allwivesmatter

This I like, very much.

[nuclearfuels]

17 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Hint: polygamy doesn't increase population.

Follow up hint: references, even unrelated ones and ones with repudiated findings, help strengthen your argument that math isn't math and biology isn't biology.

[nuclearfuels]

16 hours ago, Carborendum said:

It won't happen in your lifetime either way.  Why so curious?  Even if it does, by your own quotes, you'll probably be dead anyway.

And your basing your claim on...? 

Curious because if my kids have to live this or their grandkids do, it might be nice to teach them about their ancestors who practiced this type of marriage. Those of my posterity who don't die will what? let "all my single ladies" go unwed and childless until they die? Sounds like that woudl be the good Christian, Mormon thing to do (note the sarcasm here).

Perhaps I should tell them to shut up and take everything on faith; that seems to work well also, doesn't it?

[nuclearfuels]

16 hours ago, tesuji said:

"Will polygamy be re-instituted after plagues of the last days wipe out a lot of the earth's population?"

Nobody knows. Why are you asking off-the-wall questions today?

Sorry teruji. I just haven't acclimated yet.

[nuclearfuels]

14 hours ago, Edspringer said:

The Lord is the One who makes the covenants with men and defines its conditions. We have no power on this, except we accept the terms God had established in that covenant.

 

Plural marriage, as taught in the Book of Mormon by the prophet Jacob, is established by divine command only and under divine rules and boundaries. So when the Lord decides it’s time to set it again upon the earth it will be so. The faithful will follow His commandment and proceed according to the truths revealed on the matter.

 

Only our Father in Heaven has the power to reestablish plural marriage upon the earth again and for specific purposes: to raise just posterity to the Lord and replenish the earth.

 

You are correct, my friend.

Perhaps I could restate my OP / question:

Since we are living in the Last Days and since traditional views on marriage have changed, is it still a great leap to think plural marriage will be legalized and after that, reinstituted?

The Last Days are the times of the Restoration of All Things; sounds pretty comprehensive to me

[nuclearfuels]

Whether Muslim, Mormon, Christian, or of almost any other religion, your ancestors practiced polygamy in a beautiful and edifying way.  Bringing more children into this world is a wonderful blessing and since demographic data shows collapsing fertility rates in almost every country, especially "developed" and "advanced" countries, legalizing and then subsidizing child birth and plural marriage is the only way to  save our heritage and posterity.

 

Old Testament kings, prophets, and other leaders who practiced polygamy, include: Lamech, Abraham, Jacob, Esau, Moses, Gideon, Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Elkanah, Ashur, Abijah, Jehoiada, Ahab, Ahasuerus, Ashur, Belshazzar, Benhadad, Caleb, Eliphaz, Ezra, Jehoiachin, Jehoram, Jerahmeel, Joash, Machir, Manasseh, Mered, Nahor, Shaharaim, Simeon, and Zedekiah.

 

Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy for about 50 years during the 1800s and “officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto1 was issued by President Woodruff in 1890.”2 After signing the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act3 in 1862 Abraham Lincoln “reportedly compared the Mormon Church to a log he had encountered as a farmer” and said that the occasional log was “‘too hard to split, too wet to burn and too heavy to move, so we plow around it. That’s what I intend to do with the Mormons. You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone, I will let him alone.’"4 In Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878) ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court’s unanimous verdict prohibiting polygamy, intruded not only into the LDS right to the free exercise of religion, but forbad the same right of marital practice for the Buddhist (Aiken, p.74), Hinduism,5 Judaic,6 and Islamic religions as well.7

1. http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1?lang=eng

2. http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

3. 37th United States Congress, Sess. 2., ch. 126, 12 Stat. 501

4. Firmage, Edwin Brown; Mangrum, Richard Collin (2001), Zion in the courts, University of Illinois Press, p. 139, ISBN 0252069803, http://books.google.com/?id=9AimifP2a-4C

5. Gallichan, Walter M. “Women Under Polygamy.” Dodd, Mead. pg. 92

6. Genesis 16:1–3; 29:23–30; 30:4, 9; Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, and 17:17; Judges 8:30; 1 Samuel 1:1–2; KJV of the Bible and Gallichan, p.43-45

7. Gallichan, p.31, Khadduri. Majid. Marriage in Islamic Law: The Modernist Viewpoints. The American Journal of Comparative Law. 26. 2:213-218. Spring, 1978, and Amin Ahsan Islahi, Tadabbur-i-Qur’an, 2nd ed., vol. 2, (Lahore: Faran Foundation, 1986), p. 400

[NeedleinA]

27 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Whether Muslim, Mormon, Christian, or of almost any other religion, your ancestors practiced polygamy in a beautiful and edifying way.  Bringing more children into this world is a wonderful blessing and since demographic data shows collapsing fertility rates in almost every country, especially "developed" and "advanced" countries, legalizing and then subsidizing child birth and plural marriage is the only way to  save our heritage and posterity.

 

Old Testament kings, prophets, and other leaders who practiced polygamy, include: Lamech, Abraham, Jacob, Esau, Moses, Gideon, Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Elkanah, Ashur, Abijah, Jehoiada, Ahab, Ahasuerus, Ashur, Belshazzar, Benhadad, Caleb, Eliphaz, Ezra, Jehoiachin, Jehoram, Jerahmeel, Joash, Machir, Manasseh, Mered, Nahor, Shaharaim, Simeon, and Zedekiah.

 

Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy for about 50 years during the 1800s and “officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto1 was issued by President Woodruff in 1890.”2 After signing the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act3 in 1862 Abraham Lincoln “reportedly compared the Mormon Church to a log he had encountered as a farmer” and said that the occasional log was “‘too hard to split, too wet to burn and too heavy to move, so we plow around it. That’s what I intend to do with the Mormons. You go back and tell Brigham Young that if he will let me alone, I will let him alone.’"4 In Reynolds v. U.S., 98 U.S. 145 (1878) ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court’s unanimous verdict prohibiting polygamy, intruded not only into the LDS right to the free exercise of religion, but forbad the same right of marital practice for the Buddhist (Aiken, p.74), Hinduism,5 Judaic,6 and Islamic religions as well.7

1. http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/1?lang=eng

2. http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

3. 37th United States Congress, Sess. 2., ch. 126, 12 Stat. 501

4. Firmage, Edwin Brown; Mangrum, Richard Collin (2001), Zion in the courts, University of Illinois Press, p. 139, ISBN 0252069803, http://books.google.com/?id=9AimifP2a-4C

5. Gallichan, Walter M. “Women Under Polygamy.” Dodd, Mead. pg. 92

6. Genesis 16:1–3; 29:23–30; 30:4, 9; Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, and 17:17; Judges 8:30; 1 Samuel 1:1–2; KJV of the Bible and Gallichan, p.43-45

7. Gallichan, p.31, Khadduri. Majid. Marriage in Islamic Law: The Modernist Viewpoints. The American Journal of Comparative Law. 26. 2:213-218. Spring, 1978, and Amin Ahsan Islahi, Tadabbur-i-Qur’an, 2nd ed., vol. 2, (Lahore: Faran Foundation, 1986), p. 400

Well at least we know you are an active and unabashed Mormon now Welcome

[nuclearfuels]

6 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Well at least we know you are an active and unabashed Mormon now Welcome

What did you think me to be?

 

[NeedleinA]

12 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

What did you think me to be?

A retired nuclear materials engineer, who is an unabashed and active Mormon, with a side order of Hindu and Buddhism curiosity.

[tesuji]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Sorry teruji. I just haven't acclimated yet.

I didn't intend to flame you, I just didn't know where you were coming from.

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Follow up hint: references, even unrelated ones and ones with repudiated findings, help strengthen your argument that math isn't math and biology isn't biology.

????  

Polygamy doesn't increase population growth unless there is something which selectively killed a bunch of men and not women (a very unlikely event).  Barring those highly unusual circumstance, the most efficient way to increase population is to 1) have women have lots of babies and 2) make sure those babies live to adulthood and are provide for.  Monogamy actually fulfills both of these most efficiently: the woman has a man to herself all the time and hence lots of copulation opportunities, and the children have a less divided father to better provide for them.

[omegaseamaster75]

3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Perhaps I could restate my OP / question:

Since we are living in the Last Days and since traditional views on marriage have changed, is it still a great leap to think plural marriage will be legalized and after that, reinstituted?

It won't happen in my life time or that of my kids or there kids. Who cares anyways?

[Anddenex]

On 7/14/2016 at 11:54 AM, nuclearfuels said:

My father was often called a prophet, and years ago in Nauvoo I heard him predict that it would yet become a law of this nation that men should marry a plurality of wives.

"Instead of spiritualizing it, we believe it means exactly what it says in both the Old and the New Testaments. As other sects have already followed in the footsteps of the “Mormons” in certain of their doctrines, we need not be surprised to eventually hear of their advocating and legalizing polygamy." (emphasis added)

Woman’s Exponent, vol. 10, no. 11,
1 November 1881, p. 83

Jeni Broberg Holzapfel and Richard Neitzel Holzapfel, eds., A Woman’s View: Helen Mar Whitney’s Reminiscences of Early Church History (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1997), 135–239.

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/womans-view-helen-mar-whitneys-reminiscences-early-church-history/5-scenes-and-incidents

This part of this quote is intriguing as it was given in 1881, and then 9 years later the Church abandoned (at that moment and currently) polygamy. In light of polygamy, Mormons were forced to follow the ways of men, rather than the ways of God.

Polygamy, I can't see being accepted as a nation by law, except through the viewpoint of religious freedom. We live in a time where we will receive a "restoration" of all things, which includes polygamy. People can argue that it has already been restored and taken away, or people can argue that polygamy existed previously, accepted by the Lord, and will one day be commanded again. As to reasons why, I haven't personally experienced any spiritual witness to agree with your father, or the notion that plagues will result in a declaration to live it once again; however, a plague which would cost human lives...definitely could be a result for the need.

As the nation continues to increase in wickedness, we (the world) are already in a state of wickedness where the Lord could come any day now, and yet we still wait. Polygamy could definitely be restored in our lifetime. This may be a reason for greater righteousness, as honorable priesthood holders are able to bear more children with multiple wives.

The reality...nothing has been revealed, but if we are honorable priesthood holders we will move forward in righteousness in doing as the Lord commands, or as with other generations we will continue to kick against the pricks, mock the prophets, and leave the Church -- because we know better than the Lord's annointed. I simply have faith and hope, with whatever direction the Lord moves his prophets, seers, and revelators toward I will move forward with them, as I already have witness they are lead by God, as this is his Church.

[nuclearfuels]

4 hours ago, tesuji said:

I didn't intend to flame you, I just didn't know where you were coming from.

No worries. You didn't flame me. Trust me, I'm a flamer and I know when my own tactics are used against me