Tsk Tsk

[sgallan]

Considering Idaho’s Larry Craig on the issues:

* Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)

* Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

* Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)

* Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)

* Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)

This does give one pause.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnews

[pushka]

Methinks he doth protest too much!

[siouxz72]

I'm with you Pushka! I really don't think there's any talking his way out of this one. I can see passing your hand under the wall if you need a square of tissue but that usually comes with a request... can you spare a square?! :)

[sgallan]

I would guess that Sen Craig will not be seaking re-election.

[Josie]

I think it is really sad that this man has done these things that not only brings disgrace to him and his family, but to a Church and a nation because of his actions. Being LDS, I think we are under the microscope so to speak as much or more than most. Our actions, good or bad, speak volumes directly upon the Church in other people's eyes and in this case, our nation too.

Our actions have such far reaching effects that we probably do not really understand all that happens as a direct or indirect result of our actions many times.

[sgallan]

I think Craig is a Methodist.

[Elphaba]

The story is a bit more complicated that the article Washington Post article suggests: From the Roll Call article:

Karsnia entered the bathroom at noon that day and about 13 minutes after taking a seat in a stall, he stated he could see “an older white male with grey hair standing outside my stall.”

The man, who lingered in front of the stall for two minutes, was later identified as Craig.

“I could see Craig look through the crack in the door from his position. Craig would look down at his hands, ‘fidget’ with his fingers, and then look through the crack into my stall again. Craig would repeat this cycle for about two minutes,” the report states.

Craig then entered the stall next to Karsnia’s and placed his roller bag against the front of the stall door.

“My experience has shown that individuals engaging in lewd conduct use their bags to block the view from the front of their stall,” Karsnia stated in his report. “From my seated position, I could observe the shoes and ankles of Craig seated to the left of me.”

Craig was wearing dress pants with black dress shoes.

“At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. I moved my foot up and down slowly. While this was occurring, the male in the stall to my right was still present. I could hear several unknown persons in the restroom that appeared to use the restroom for its intended use. The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area,” the report states.

Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times, and Karsnia noted in his report that “I could ... see Craig had a gold ring on his ring finger as his hand was on my side of the stall divider.”

Karsnia then held his police identification down by the floor so that Craig could see it.

“With my left hand near the floor, I pointed towards the exit. Craig responded, ‘No!’ I again pointed towards the exit. Craig exited the stall with his roller bags without flushing the toilet. ... Craig said he would not go. I told Craig that he was under arrest, he had to go, and that I didn’t want to make a scene. Craig then left the restroom.”

In a recorded interview after his arrest, Craig “either disagreed with me or ‘didn’t recall’ the events as they happened,” the report states.

Craig stated “that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine,” the report states. Craig also told the arresting officer that he reached down with his right hand to pick up a piece of paper that was on the floor.

“It should be noted that there was not a piece of paper on the bathroom floor, nor did Craig pick up a piece of paper,” the arresting officer said in the report.

On Aug. 8, the day he pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct in the Minnesota court, Craig appeared via satellite at a ceremony that took place in Idaho in which former Idaho federal Judge Randy Smith was invested into his new position as a judge on the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

In October 2006, Craig’s office publicly denied allegations that he was a homosexual made on a gay activist Web site — blogactive.com. Craig’s office told the Spokane Spokesman-Review that the charge was “completely ridiculous,” saying that the allegations had “no basis in fact.”

Roll Call/Craig arrest

I think it's obvious Craig was soliciting sex. However, I think it's a waste of time to spend manpower and money cracking down on this type of thing.

What is outrageous is tto me is what Scott alluded to above. Craig obviously is homosexual, and yet he actively supports anti-homosexual legislation. He makes connections in bathrooms to satisfy his lust, and then denounces and denies those who are out of the closet and truly love each other the chance to legally bind that love.

I don't have a problem with gay people who want to stay in the closet. That's their choice. I have a huge problem with those who stay in the closet and actively work to hurt those who are brave enough to have come out of it.

Elphaba

[siouxz72]

I don't think the article specifies his religion.

What I think is really sad is that people feel that they have to live this terrible lie. That they can't or don't feel free to be who they really are...or who they think they really are.

[sgallan]

I looked it up. It's Methodist. And I agree.... it is sad.

[Josie]

I apologize, I was told this morning at Church that he was LDS, I should have checked before making the comments I did. But, regardless of what Church it is, or what family, or everything else that a person is connected with, our actions have far reaching effects, regardless of who we are.

[bunnzy]

since when is it so surprising?

He is a politian

I dont trust polititions at all.

[checkerboy]

I was listening to a local talk radio show and since I live in Idaho this was huge here. A caller said something that I know some of you wont like but I agree with. She said that perhaps Sen. Craig struggles with homosexual tendencies but knows that that lifestyle is wrong. Because of that he is not being hypocritical by voting for, to be blunt, anti-homosexual legislation. If you had a drug addiction that you know was wrong hopefully you would still support DARE and other legislation to keep drugs off the street. Being an addict is not a crime, nor does it make one hypocritical.

Now the fact that he is acting on these impulses leads me to believe he has an addiction because who in their right mind would solicit sex being in a position that he is in.

[Elphaba]

I was listening to a local talk radio show and since I live in Idaho this was huge here. A caller said something that I know some of you wont like but I agree with. She said that perhaps Sen. Craig struggles with homosexual tendencies but knows that that lifestyle is wrong. Because of that he is not being hypocritical by voting for, to be blunt, anti-homosexual legislation. If you had a drug addiction that you know was wrong hopefully you would still support DARE and other legislation to keep drugs off the street. Being an addict is not a crime, nor does it make one hypocritical.

First, it is incorrect to equate drug addiction with homosexuality. One has nothing to do with the other.

I am sure it is extremely hard in this country to be homosexual, from an extremely conservative state and to have to live in the closet. In fact, I think Craig should have been able, from the very begining, to live as a gay man, and still be a senator for Idaho and even marry a partner if he wished. If he was not married, what happened in this bathroom should not have been a crime.

But that's not the real world. And Senator Craig knows this.

So I am not as kind to Craig as others might be. Obviously he knew he was homosexual and yet chose to put himself in the high-profile position of a U.S. Senator. I do not believe for one minute his anti-gay activism was because he believed it was a sin. I believe it was a smoke screen he used to camouflage his gay liaisons.

I also believe it is possible that he is so conflicted and hates himself for his being homosexual so much that he projects this onto all homosexuals. Therefore, his anti-gay activism serves a dual purpose--it punishes them for being what he hates about himself. Obviuosly I'm speculating and don't really know. It's just a sense I have, and admit I could be competely wrong.

Now the fact that he is acting on these impulses leads me to believe he has an addiction because who in their right mind would solicit sex being in a position that he is in.

Again, homosexuality is not an addiction. It is a sexual orientation that one is born with on a scale that could range from mildly homosexual to completely homosexual. And there are a myriad of reasons why someone like him would solicit sex. Number one, is obviously, because he is gay, and thought he could get away with. Being an anti-gay activist gave him plenty of reason to think he could.

Elphaba

[FrankJL]

Josie you are thinking of Idaho's other senator, Mike Crapo who is LDS.

and btw...its pronounced cray-po.....not crap-o (what a horrible name that would be)

What on earth is going on with these closet hypocritical gay Republicans, Tom Foley, now this guy...

[Fiannan]

Josie you are thinking of Idaho's other senator, Mike Crapo who is LDS.

and btw...its pronounced cray-po.....not crap-o (what a horrible name that would be)

What on earth is going on with these closet hypocritical gay Republicans, Tom Foley, now this guy...

Yeah, if Craig and Foley had been democrats they would have been hailed as heros like Gerry Studds was.

By the way, Foley was one of the most liberal republicans in the congress. So where is the hypocracy except in the media's treatment of him? As for Craig, I have no excuse for him whatsoever. Although Freud explained this sort of thing as either projection or reaction formation. Often the people who scream loudest about how evil pornography is are the biggest consumers.

[sgallan]

The difference in treatment lies in the hypocrisy involved. He was an active participant of the religious right.... on the front lines as it were.... with the rumors out there.... and then he gets caught for the hypocrite he is. It isn't just the liberal press on this story. I doubt the Idaho Stateman is a liberal rag, and they have been on the Craig story long before this. He is compounding his lies and deciet by continuing to proclaim innosense when the case against him, both real (that sting was well documented), and anedotal, is pretty strong.

[pushka]

I know a gay man who used to hang out in London, at turkish baths and such, and mixed with Conservative MPs who were gay. They too were passing anti homosexual acts of parliament, being hypocrites.

I think it is very sad that the police set traps such as the above, in order to 'catch out' gay men.

[Elphaba]

Here is a reenactment of Craig's "wide stance," in the bathroom encounter based on the arresting officer's report..

Craig Solicitaton (You have to watch a 5-second short commercial before.)

Elphaba

[FrankJL]

Yeah, if Craig and Foley had been democrats they would have been hailed as heros like Gerry Studds was.

By the way, Foley was one of the most liberal republicans in the congress. So where is the hypocracy except in the media's treatment of him? As for Craig, I have no excuse for him whatsoever. Although Freud explained this sort of thing as either projection or reaction formation. Often the people who scream loudest about how evil pornography is are the biggest consumers.

First of all I need to correct myself. I referred to him as "Tom Foley" I was thinking of another congressman, the pedophile in question here is "Mark Foley".

That being said, to classify Foley as "one of the most liberal republicans in congress" is incorrect. Besides being in support for gay rights he was pretty much down the line another cookie cutter conservative Republican. He's pro-life, supported the PATRIOT act, supported the war in Iraq, ect, ect...

http://house.ontheissues.org/FL/Mark_Foley.htm

Now for some real liberal Republicans..

http://house.ontheissues.org/House/Christopher_Shays.htm

http://house.ontheissues.org/Senate/Lincoln_Chafee.htm

http://house.ontheissues.org/Senate/Susan_Collins.htm

http://house.ontheissues.org/House/Jim_Leach.htm

His hypocrisies stems from the fact that he liked to proclaim himself as a defender of children from sexual exploitation, he even served on House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is reflective of all Republicans, capitol hill is full of sickos of all political persuasions.

I would like to end by saying:

I still would feel safer hunting with Richard Cheney, then driving with Ted Kennedy.

Edit: it appears using the VP's nickname gets me censored, so I had to use his real first name.

[prisonchaplain]

There is no way around the stench. Pro-family, pro-life, pro-values politicians who have so little discretion that they are found engaging in public anti-family, anti-life, or anti-values behavior should resign.

Kudos to Rev. Ted Haggard, who had the decency to do so (from his church and from the religious organization he was president of) quickly and decisively. Hopefully, Craig will do the right thing.

[Palerider]

I love how the press always convicts all who are caught up in something.....there is not enough money in the world to make me want to be a Politician in todays world. We have scum bags on both sides of the aisle.....and we can go down the list......whats hard about this one is .....I have a very close friend who works for Sen Craig and is now very concerned for his future and whats going to happen. Does anyone ever think before they make a descision???.......

[FrankJL]

This isn't the press convicting him, he did plead guilty to this after all. No matter how much backtracking and CYAing he tries to do.

[Palerider]

This isn't the press convicting him, he did plead guilty to this after all. No matter how much backtracking and CYAing he tries to do.

I will restate what I said.......the media does try and convict people in this country as soon as it hits....

[sgallan]

While the press does a LOT of what you say..... this one convicted himself, and then continued to do so with his press conference yesterday. This after a life time of being a social Conservative. He has now had all his important Committee assignments stripped, and frankly his party is PO'd in a big way. As they should be, and kudo's to them for throwing him under the bus.

[Palerider]

While the press does a LOT of what you say..... this one convicted himself, and then continued to do so with his press conference yesterday. This after a life time of being a social Conservative. He has now had all his important Committee assignments stripped, and frankly his party is PO'd in a big way. As they should be, and kudo's to them for throwing him under the bus.

and the media is still trying to hang him even more......