Men And Women Were Created To Complement One Another

[susieSA]

Gems on the Family

Men and Women Were Created to Complement One Another

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"In His grand design, when God first created man, He created a duality

of the sexes. The ennobling expression of that duality is found in

marriage. One individual is complementary to the other. As Paul stated,

'Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the

man, in the Lord' (1 Corinthians 11:11).

"There is no other

arrangement that meets the divine purposes of the Almighty. Man and woman

are His creations. Their duality is His design. Their complementary

relationships and functions are fundamental to His purposes. One is

incomplete without the other."

Topics: Marriage

(Gordon B. Hinckley, "The Women in Our Lives," Ensign, Nov. 2004, 84)

[darrel]

This makes us realize that eternal covenants are essential for the our exaultation.

[Jason]

Maybe you should read what else St. Paul said in 1 Cor.:

"I would that all men were even as myself; but every one hath his proper gift from God .... But I say to the unmarried and to the widows, it is good for them if they so continue, even as I."

Apparently one can be an Apostle, and destined for exaltation, and not be married.

He also said:

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of this world how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord without impediment." (1 Corinthians 7:7-8 and 32-35)

[darrel]

The higher law and order of God is to be sealed for all eternity in order to be receive the highest rewards He has for his obedient Children. Those who cannot abide that law will not receive of His fullness but a lesser reward.

[Jason]

The higher law and order of God is to be sealed for all eternity in order to be receive the highest rewards He has for his obedient Children. Those who cannot abide that law will not receive of His fullness but a lesser reward.

das the quality of your posts is rather dismal.

Was this post an actual attempt to address the words of St. Paul, or is this yet another one of your "inthenameofjesuschristamen." episodes?

[checkerboy]

Pretty pathetic Jason. No one is under obligation to argue with you or the things you post. Das has every right to state his opinion and not have the likes of you degrade him for it. I have a testimony as well of celestial marriage and just because you don't agree and try to use the words of Paul doesn't mean that I am wrong. I know I am right and I don't have to prove myself to any mortal being. I don't mind that you disagree, but no personal attacks please.

[darrel]

thank you checker boy. I have thick skin but not the gift of writing. I too know by a confirmation of the spirit that these things are true. I think the artillary shells are intended to make us run for cover. I prefer not to attack individuals but to develop an open dialogue with reasonable individuals. The subject started with a statement from a Prophet of God. But of course the friends of the adversary have, do, and always will attack anything resembling truth in order to lead away the faithful sincere seeker for the truth.

[Jason]

Pretty pathetic Jason.

Actually, das' reply was pathetic. It completely ignores the subject and goes straight for the warm fuzzy testimoany. There is a lot more to communication than what he's offering.

No one is under obligation to argue with you or the things you post. Das has every right to state his opinion and not have the likes of you degrade him for it.

I'm not degrading him. I didn't address him. I addressed his post. I hope he can do better. At least he has you for a cheerleader. Maybe you can help motivate him? Do you have pom-pom's?

I have a testimony as well of celestial marriage and just because you don't agree and try to use the words of Paul doesn't mean that I am wrong.

I guess you believe that Paul is wrong? Just say so and stop toying around.

I know I am right and I don't have to prove myself to any mortal being. I don't mind that you disagree, but no personal attacks please.

You know you are right, but you can't defend yourself? That's interesting.

As for your accusation that I am arguing ad hominem, I suggest that you review what I actually said, and not what you read into the words written. I in fact made no personal attack. What I did say was to criticize the qualilty of a post. Here, let me restate what I said, in case you didn't actually read it:

"das the quality of your posts is rather dismal."

I did not say" das, you are dismal.".

I then asked a question: "is this yet another one of your "inthenameofjesuschristamen." episodes?"

Trying to determine if he is interested in actual biblical exegesis, or if he's just going to bear his testimony every time we ask him a question.

Does that help in any way clarify my intentions?

------------------

I think the artillary shells are intended to make us run for cover.

Artillery? I haven't even thrown a spit-wad your direction (yet).

I prefer not to attack individuals but to develop an open dialogue with reasonable individuals.

Great. But you do realize that "dialogue" requires more than a testimony, right?

The subject started with a statement from a Prophet of God.

Debatable.

But of course the friends of the adversary have, do, and always will attack anything resembling truth in order to lead away the faithful sincere seeker for the truth.

"Friends of the adversary"? Are you serious? You're already reduced to implying that anyone who disagrees with your private view of Mormon theology is demonic?

Where is Snow when we need him?

[checkerboy]

You know you are right, but you can't defend yourself? That's interesting.

Like I said I don't have to defend my testimony to anyone. I simply express it. You seem to be on the defensive. Have we pricked your conscience? You don't have to believe me but I know because I have received answers to my prayers from my Heavenly Father. I choose not to cast my pearls before swine. If all you want to do is attack someones belief then I think there are other sites that you would be more welcome in. I have followed quiet a number of your posts. You are very intellegent. But I will not be pulled into a shouting match about what Paul said 2000 years ago. I know what I believe and whether you accept that is your problem don't try to make it mine.

[CrimsonKairos]

Das, just so you know, Jason is ex-mormon, served a mission, knows more about our Church than probably six out of ten LDS members, so you're not going to be telling him anything he doesn't already know.

He's very intelligent and learned, so you have to realize that 80% of his questions are rhetorical. I'd advise you not to spend your time arguing with him and just try to provide fuller explanations of your views. He's a good guy, but don't get him going!

[Jason]

Yeah, most of my questions are rhetorical. That said, I don't like people putting forth "answers" that have no defense outside of a "feeling," and then when these same "answers" are refuted with textual information, being told that I'm of the devil.

That chaps my hide.

[CrimsonKairos]

Fair enough, bro. That's why I told das to flesh out his posts a little more for the purpose of discussion.

[bunnzy]

Ok Jason so 'Rhetorically' speaking do you take any joy out of casting doubt into church members minds? i am not only referring to this topic, but many others also. Just because you made the decision to leave does not give you the right to belittle others testimonies.

because That chaps MY hide

[Jason]

If "casting doubt" as you call it throws the rays of the light of reason on someone, how can that be bad?

I don't care what you believe, but do so intelligently and with the understanding that it is logical not to believe in Mormonism. If you can do that, you have my respect (as do some posters here).

It's these wet behind the ears, fresh from the latest "especially for youth" rally that bother me. They're so woefully ignorant that I'm beside myself on how best to deal with them.

Most times...I just ignore 'em. Today was not one of those days.

Ok Jason so 'Rhetorically' speaking do you take any joy out of casting doubt into church members minds? i am not only referring to this topic, but many others also. Just because you made the decision to leave does not give you the right to belittle others testimonies.

because That chaps MY hide

[pushka]

I don't always agree with Jason's delivery of questions to some posters, but I must say that I haven't found anything wrong with his questions..I do believe he is trying to get Das to flesh out his responses, and that to me, is real dialogue..

[a-train]

Paul's words also said: 'But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.' (1 Cor 7:6)

Again he said: 'Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.' (1 Cor 7:25)

He also said:'Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?' (1 Cor 9:5)

Most important: What documentation do we have that Paul was never married?

-a-train

[Gabelma]

As a Latter Day Saint yes Gordon B Hinckley trumps Paul anyday lol - I love the original words they are beautiful.

What I will say is disimissing a testimony as warn and fuzzy or ignorant is a little ignorant imo OK I agree you don't have to take it as gospel, and I can find them annoying, but they are a persons relationship with God those feelings are not warm and fuzzy unless you want to describe God that way.

Everyone in the world is on a different stage in their path through life it is entirely appropriate for someone to be allowed to state what they know or they understand, even if it isn't at someone elses lofty perspective. I have done the arrogant intellectual and then was humbled by losing it all, I do not have the same ability to martial a coherrent arguement I did 10 years ago, but I do know that my relationship with God is important and I know that what I believe is right, somedays however I can't tell you why its right just I know it is. And that is my stage of life and its just a relevent and dear to me as all the learning and quotes a person can come up with. You recognise Das seems younger or less educated than yourself yet you make no allowances for it, that is a very ignorant position. The best intellectuals are the ones that can make their position understandable to everyone and teach. You could just accept that is what he knows.

-Charley

[Iggy]

Das, just so you know, Jason is ex-mormon, served a mission, knows more about our Church than probably six out of ten LDS members, so you're not going to be telling him anything he doesn't already know.

He's very intelligent and learned, so you have to realize that 80% of his questions are rhetorical. I'd advise you not to spend your time arguing with him and just try to provide fuller explanations of your views. He's a good guy, but don't get him going!

No, for the most part Jason is not a good guy. He is also extremely rude and obnoxious. In the past he has been put on moderator time outs because of his caustic remarks. I for one have put him on ignore because the moderators here on this board don't have the moxy to tell him to shape up and to curtail his nasty and snide remarks. OR to cease with his noxious remarks about the LDS Church. But of course this is My personal opinion.

[bunnzy]

Faith is not logical jason

I know because i am struggling with it at the moment. I know most of what the church teaches is illogical, but does that make it false. No. Does that mean you can go about using you excuses of 'light of reason?"

Reason is not always light. (i am referring to light being the light of christ and intelligence, how the world itself was created, how good men and women lead great lives without the gospel/dogma in their lives)

While reason is a type of thought, logic is a field of study which categorizes ways of justifying conclusions that are in accordance with reason.

[Jason]

Paul's words also said: 'But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.' (1 Cor 7:6)

Again he said: 'Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.' (1 Cor 7:25)

He also said:'Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?' (1 Cor 9:5)

Most important: What documentation do we have that Paul was never married?

-a-train

As an Apostle, he taught what he believed was the truth. I don't always agree with Paul, but it is what it is.

Perhaps now you can see why I don't place 100% on anyone's teachings. Nobody is always right.

As a Latter Day Saint yes Gordon B Hinckley trumps Paul anyday lol - I love the original words they are beautiful.

GBH ranks pretty low on the Mormon Prophet scale IMO. You won't see any of his words ever included in your Standard Works. That should be telling, methinks.

Everyone in the world is on a different stage in their path through life it is entirely appropriate for someone to be allowed to state what they know or they understand, even if it isn't at someone elses lofty perspective.

I'm not trying to be "lofty". I just hate ignorant beliefs. When I can do something about it, I will. That's what I do.

The best intellectuals are the ones that can make their position understandable to everyone and teach. You could just accept that is what he knows.

That's precisely what I'm doing.

No, for the most part Jason is not a good guy.

Really? And you know this how?

I for one have put him on ignore....

Please don't make exceptions anymore.

...because the moderators here on this board don't have the moxy to tell him to shape up and to curtail his nasty and snide remarks.

So now your the expert at moderation too?

Faith is not logical jason

I can be based on one's best reason. Faith need not be illogical as so many pretend.

I know because i am struggling with it at the moment. I know most of what the church teaches is illogical, but does that make it false. No. Does that mean you can go about using you excuses of 'light of reason?"

Not all of it is false. You don't have to struggle, because if Mormonism is working for you overall, then there is no need to look elsewhere. Question, doubt, but don't desert if you don't have to.

Reason is not always light. (i am referring to light being the light of christ and intelligence, how the world itself was created, how good men and women lead great lives without the gospel/dogma in their lives)

While reason is a type of thought, logic is a field of study which categorizes ways of justifying conclusions that are in accordance with reason.

But you forget that Jesus reasoned with the Jews of his day as to why he was breaking "commandments". When reason failed, he just left them and went elsewhere.

[susieSA]

Wow, we have got to over 20 posts on this thread & are soooo way off topic...

But hey, I guess we were never really on topic anyway

The whole point behind me posting the Gem has been totally missed, but anyway

[checkerboy]

Ever heard of the Proclaimation on the Family Jason? Good words that are scripture whether they are canonized or not. As for you, you're just a jerk that seems to get his jollies from antagonizing others that won't try and fight with you. Get a clue buddie not everyone has to study night and day to understand truth. This scripture reminds me of you:

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." - 2 Tim. 3:7.

Lead captive any silly women lately?

[Jason]

Words are only scripture that are canonized. Mormon apologists, BYU professors, and General Authorities may sometimes say that all good words inspired by the Holy Ghost are scripture, but when someone quotes something as Mormon doctrine that is not in the Standard Works, it's immediately denied because it's not "scripture".

You can't have it both ways. It's either in, or it's out.

[a-train]

I'm one of those 'it's in' types.

-a-train

[Gabelma]

Words are only scripture that are canonized. Mormon apologists, BYU professors, and General Authorities may sometimes say that all good words inspired by the Holy Ghost are scripture, but when someone quotes something as Mormon doctrine that is not in the Standard Works, it's immediately denied because it's not "scripture".

You can't have it both ways. It's either in, or it's out.

Like a-train I am an its in person, for me what you say that only works with prophets in the past (whether that be Paul or Howard W Hunter) not the current prophet I will say not all that is in our canonised scripture is correct to 100% it can't be we are mere mortal humans trying to understand the etermity we can't see. If you study physics at school, at university you will be told to forget what you have learned at school as it is only a mere shadow of what you will learn at degree level, when you go to university historical facts all of a sudden become probabilities or theories. Your secure world should have its tree shaken, and you should realise that as humans we actually don't know an awful lot for sure. If we have to progress in learning here and see it change as we go how can we hope to expect scripture to tell us all there is to know about God? or any prophet.

President Gordon B Hinckley can give us the gospel as it is today, nothing he says should be something that will lead us astray eternally. For example if I had believed Joseph Smith and Brigham Young about there being men on the moon - it wouldn't have damned me to an eternity in outer darkness or even come close. And at that time the idea of people on the moon was a way of understanding people somewhere in the universe/mulitiverses etc whatever you believe on that score. The moon was pretty much their universe, I still believe there are people/beings created somewhere else whether that be in another dimension etc Just like whilst I think its personal opinion and one I don't like - it won't do my husband any harm to get his hair cut and be clean shaven.

So President Hinckley still trumps Paul for me, andhe will trump Joseph Smith. Only thing he doesn't trump is my relationship with God

-Charley