Elphaba, A Muslim?

[Annabelli]

Atheist always surround themselves with religion. Have you ever met two atheist who knew each other?

Have you ever heard of anyone going to an atheist meeting? Have you ever met a happy atheist? Have you ever met an atheist who celebrated atheist commemoration days?

Atheist never think because thinking leads to prayer.

[prisonchaplain]

MHO about atheists: they cannot be accused of thoughtlessness. That designation goes to all the cultural religionists who tell people they belong to a faith because their parents did, they grew up in it, or it's the dominant faith of their home country. Atheists generally have thought through their belief and come to believe that God does not exist.

They are a very small fraction of society, and have chosen an unpopular faith (can't be proven). So, disagree with 'em, and try to win them over with your good deeds, prayers and concerns, but do not assume a lack of intelligence or thought on their part.

[Annabelli]

My car was in the shop and I asked J to give me a ride to work for a few days. She had recently lost her husand in a tragic accident. I would just wait for her on the sidewalk in front of my building. The last day that she was to pick me up, it started to rain. I walked to a nearby church to wait under the porch. J saw me waiting there at the church but she did not stop. J was a good hearted person and I knew that she was not going to leave without me. J circled the block eighteen times or so before she pulled to the curb and stopped.

It was still pouring rain and she got out of her vehicle with an umbrella and walked up to the porch. We were watching the rain when a man stepped out of the church and stood on the porch. After a moment, he put his hand on J's shoulder and said, I'm glad to see you. I've missed you.

He and J walked into the church and talked for a little while. When J came out, we ran to the car and headed home. J had buried B not too far from where she lived in a country cemetery. She told me that it was time for her to move back into town. She seemed very much at peace with life.

The last time that I visited her, she had rehung all of her velvet pictures of Jesus on the walls and the clock on top of the TV framed with a picture of Jesus was lighted and ticking.

[Gabelma]

Atheist always surround themselves with religion. Have you ever met two atheist who knew each other?

Have you ever heard of anyone going to an atheist meeting? Have you ever met a happy atheist? Have you ever met an atheist who celebrated atheist commemoration days?

Atheist never think because thinking leads to prayer.

Actually I know of at least one Atheist cafe - and yes I have met more truly happy athiests than I have met happy LDS to be honest. My boss at a museum I worked at was an athiest (her two assistants were ironically myself a LDS and my friend a Jehovahs Witness) - she was an amazing woman, had a good solid companionable marriage, she had spent 20 years successfully raising her 4 children and vegetables, she was strong physically, loved the enviroment and everything that surrounded her, and thanks to an unexpected massive pay rise when she was promoted from part time museum assistent to full time curator at nearly 60 she was considerably better off than she had planned on being financially not to mention the huge amount they made on their house. At 66 she is loved, adored and admired by herfamily and most people shecame into contact with, her marriage is as solid as it can be (he was my English teacher), she spends a lot of her time walking or going on holiday (her and her husband quite often take different holidays lol - he likes reading cruises in the med she loves being up a mountain in Scotland). She has achieved great things personally and professionally (she raised 3million pounds and re-built the museum to its former glory). She is a smart cookie never gets treated badly by others but also never treats anyone badly she builds everyone up.

So tell me what is she missing? aside from a religious belief her life contains everything I believe would make me as a Latter Day Saint heppy and its as a result of her being a fantastic person?

-Charley

[pushka]

Atheist always surround themselves with religion. Have you ever met two atheist who knew each other?

Have you ever heard of anyone going to an atheist meeting? Have you ever met a happy atheist? Have you ever met an atheist who celebrated atheist commemoration days?

Atheist never think because thinking leads to prayer.

My best friend is an atheist...she never surrounds herself with religion. She is extremely happy, has more atheist friends, she is compassionate, does lots of work for underprivelidged groups, has a Masters Degree, she certainly is a 'thinker'.

Where on earth do you get your ideas above, about atheists?

[prisonchaplain]

Yesterday, I spoke about this in church. Mind you, there I am up there--the chaplian--the guy with the suit and collar, standing in front of a group of men, wearing khaki uniforms, most wondering whether they are look at a few years or a couple of decades "behind the wall." I asked them, "How many of you know someone who is an atheist or a non-Christian, but who is nicer, more interesting, more intelligent, and perhaps more compassionate than most of the Christians you know?" Roughly half the hands went up.

I continued, I might be at a level 5 on a scale of 10. Your friend might be an 8 or a 9. However, without Christ I probably wouldn't make the first level. With Christ, your friend might top the 10 level. The Spirit of God does not make me better than you, He makes me better than me.

On the other hand, as a general rule, Christians should be better. We should be kinder, more compassionate, more intelligent, and harder working. God forgives us that we often are not.

[Palerider]

Yesterday, I spoke about this in church. Mind you, there I am up there--the chaplian--the guy with the suit and collar, standing in front of a group of men, wearing khaki uniforms, most wondering whether they are look at a few years or a couple of decades "behind the wall." I asked them, "How many of you know someone who is an atheist or a non-Christian, but who is nicer, more interesting, more intelligent, and perhaps more compassionate than most of the Christians you know?" Roughly half the hands went up.

I continued, I might be at a level 5 on a scale of 10. Your friend might be an 8 or a 9. However, without Christ I probably wouldn't make the first level. With Christ, your friend might top the 10 level. The Spirit of God does not make me better than you, He makes me better than me.

On the other hand, as a general rule, Christians should be better. We should be kinder, more compassionate, more intelligent, and harder working. God forgives us that we often are not.

[Elphaba]

The last time that I visited her, she had rehung all of her velvet pictures of Jesus. . . .

Velvet pictures of Jesus?

How come nobody ever told me about this! If I had known, perhaps I would never have become an atheist. I mean, really, Jesus on Velvet!

I must take some time and think about this.

Elphaba

The Spirit of God does not make me better than you, He makes me better than me.

Your entire post was lovely, but I especially was touched by this part.

PC, you do make me think about being a better person.

Elphaba

[prisonchaplain]

By way of disclosure, Elvis Presley, the other famous person on velvet, was said to be a member of the Assemblies of God. :-)

Something about the soft, yet sharp contrast this fabric provides. LOL

[shanstress70]

Elph, you know I think you're awesome... right?

But I have to bring this up:

I can understand being an agnostic, I suppose, as an agnostic doesn't know if God exists. The definition of the word means 'without knowledge'.

But to be atheist means that you believe there is no god... period.

To me, it takes as much faith to believe there is no god than it does to believe there is a god.

Just wanted to put that out there for discussion.

[prisonchaplain]

Elph, you know I think you're awesome... right?

But I have to bring this up:

I can understand being an agnostic, I suppose, as an agnostic doesn't know if God exists. The definition of the word means 'without knowledge'.

But to be atheist means that you believe there is no god... period.

To me, it takes as much faith to believe there is no god than it does to believe there is a god.

Just wanted to put that out there for discussion.

If I'm not mistaken, an agnostic--a true agnostic--believes that even if there is a god, he is unknowable. So, it's not "I don't know if there is a god, " but rather, "God, if he's out there, is beyond us, and will not be reached."

[Elphaba]

Elph, you know I think you're awesome... right?

But I have to bring this up:

I can understand being an agnostic, I suppose, as an agnostic doesn't know if God exists. The definition of the word means 'without knowledge'.

But to be atheist means that you believe there is no god... period.

To me, it takes as much faith to believe there is no god than it does to believe there is a god.

Just wanted to put that out there for discussion.

Hi Shan,

Yes I know you think I’m awesome, and I think you’re radical right back!

Regarding “faith.“ You believe in the Christian God. You experience faith on a daily basis because of the effort you put into it; you purposely take the time and emotional energy to put yourself in a state of mind that connects you with your mental image of God.

If I recall our discussions correctly, you work on your faith daily to strive to maintain that connection as you feel your belief is better than no belief, and it’s comforting to you to have that connection to God.

You experience this faith on a daily basis; your faith is a tangible thing to you, as real as the computer screen in front of you.

And when I say I lack a belief in a god, that does not necessarily mean I am right and you are wrong. I honestly can’t say for sure. But the idea that there is a God is so incredulous to me that I don’t really give it any thought anymore. I honestly don’t care.

However, you do. Consciously, and daily. You work on your faith because you love and yearn for God, and you want His presence not only for you but for your family. If I remember correctly, you want to love as best you can, and believe your faith in God will help you to do that. And I think that’s a beautiful thing.

However, you are also an atheist.

Approximately 900 million Hindus believe in and have faith in the god Brahman. Hinduism is the fourth most popular religion in the world.

So, could you force yourself to believe in Hinduism? Perhaps. If you were to study about it and decide it was the religion for you, maybe you could. But that would mean you would have to give up your belief in Christianity, which would then make you an atheist as far as Christianity goes.

But if you can’t do that, then you can’t. Do you see my point? You can no more force yourself to believe that Brahman is a god than you can believe that Santa Claus is real. Can you? Try it in your head. Seriously try and tell yourself that Brahman is God. What happens in your mind? Does it recoil?

Because that is exactly what happens in my mind when I think of the existence of a God. My mind just cannot imagine it. It can’t! My mind literally recoils at the thought of it.

When I came to realize there is no God, all of the puzzle pieces in my life suddenly snapped together in a single big bang, and it was like a miracle to me. It was actually a very healing experience. I was on a high for about a month, because it ended years of anguish. But from that moment on, I really never gave it a second thought. I never doubted it, I never struggled, I never resisted it, and I never wrestled with it. It was total calm, and it’s not even a conscious thought process any more.

In fact, the only time I think about it is when it gets brought up on the board here.

You see, when the pieces fell together, like I said, it was so freeing and for the first time in my life, it all made sense. In fact, the truth is, I just don’t really care if there is a God. I know I could be wrong. I don’t think there is one, at least not one as described by any organized religion or any of the religious texts.

But if there is, then I’m wrong. And I just can’t imagine a God that would be angry with me because I couldn't believe in Him. If He is there, He knows my heart. And I will be all right.

But I don’t think He, or She, or It is there. My brain cannot imagine it anymore than your brain can imagine that Brahman is the true God. And that takes no faith whatsoever.

I hope that helps you understand the difference.

Elphaba

P.S. I would like to add that I have made some amazing friends here who have inspired me to want to be a better person. I have been touched in a way that I haven't been before. I have always believed I am a good and kind person. But I find myself wanting to be more, and that is a direct result of the people who have layed a hand on my heart for just a moment.

Okay, enough gushing. E.

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Elph, you know I think you're awesome... right?

But I have to bring this up:

I can understand being an agnostic, I suppose, as an agnostic doesn't know if God exists. The definition of the word means 'without knowledge'.

But to be atheist means that you believe there is no god... period.

To me, it takes as much faith to believe there is no god than it does to believe there is a god.

Just wanted to put that out there for discussion.

If I'm not mistaken, an agnostic--a true agnostic--believes that even if there is a god, he is unknowable. So, it's not "I don't know if there is a god, " but rather, "God, if he's out there, is beyond us, and will not be reached."

Hi PC,

Yesterday I went ahead and changed my "religion" to atheist. I think Palerider was right and I was acting more like an atheist than an agnostic.

Still, an atheist also can say "I don't know." Usually it's in the form of "I don't care." I'm sort of like that. I don't think about it usually, except when it gets brought up on the boards. But I never think about it otherwise, because I just don't care to think about it. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

So while I don't believe there is a god, that doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong. I think you are, but then you think I am. Such is the dilemma. :)

Elphaba

[pushka]

Elphie, I like the way you describe/explain your disbelief...

I've struggled over the years to believe in God, and it wasn't until about 2 years ago at the most that I thought that maybe there might not be a God at all...that perhaps even the stories of Jesus could be myths borrowed from lots of different ancient civilisations.

It does cause me anguish when I struggle with trying to believe in God, and yet always finding it so difficult to believe in. I could easily attend any church and try to be as good a person as I could, and to follow the 'rules' of whichever religion I joined...actually that's incorrect, there are some religious practises that I could never allow myself to go along with...but I could never say that I fully believed in one religion or another, so if I was to try to have a general belief in God and Jesus...Christianity, it would have to be a none denominational kind, however I see goodness in many none Christian religions too...so I would still be anguished wondering if I was doing wrong by following the incorrect religion...

I'd much rather carry on leading as good a life as I possibly can, for myself and all people affected by my actions, and try to encourage and believe in the goodness of those around me, than to worry that the God described generally by religions would punish me for not believing in him in the right way.

[Elphaba]

Elphie, I like the way you describe/explain your disbelief...

I've struggled over the years to believe in God, and it wasn't until about 2 years ago at the most that I thought that maybe there might not be a God at all...that perhaps even the stories of Jesus could be myths borrowed from lots of different ancient civilisations.

It does cause me anguish when I struggle with trying to believe in God, and yet always finding it so difficult to believe in. I could easily attend any church and try to be as good a person as I could, and to follow the 'rules' of whichever religion I joined...actually that's incorrect, there are some religious practises that I could never allow myself to go along with...but I could never say that I fully believed in one religion or another, so if I was to try to have a general belief in God and Jesus...Christianity, it would have to be a none denominational kind, however I see goodness in many none Christian religions too...so I would still be anguished wondering if I was doing wrong by following the incorrect religion...

I'd much rather carry on leading as good a life as I possibly can, for myself and all people affected by my actions, and try to encourage and believe in the goodness of those around me, than to worry that the God described generally by religions would punish me for not believing in him in the right way.

Hi Pushka,

I'm not sure, but I think I am past your point in the journey. I don't struggle at all anymore. But I did go through that anguish and struggle in trying to believe, and it was killing me. My epiphany really was a moment in time, and I'll never forget it.

I'm concerned that I'll offend believers with my nonchalance. I don't know how else to talk about this, except to say that I respect everyone's experience, and believe they are as valid as mine, and vice versa.

When I mentioned the people who have touched my heart, I include you in that list.

Elphaba

[pushka]

Hi Elphie, thanks for replying to my post.

I agree, I think you are further along than I am. I would love to just not believe at all, and feel free of the worry of whether I am believing correctly, or acting to the full extent that I can, in order to please this God that might or might not exist. Sometimes I do feel that freedom, but then I read things on religious message boards/sites, see tv programmes examining religious beliefs regarding heaven and hell, and the worrying starts again.

It's as if I'm afraid to commit myself to either one belief system or another, in case I'm not doing it right, or in case I just can't force myself to believe everything that religion tells me and therefore feel like a hypocrite, and so I find it easier not to believe in anything at all, so that there will be no consequences for not getting it right.

Thank you for including me in your list of people who have touched you, I'm very grateful for that. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Usually it's in the form of "I don't care." I'm sort of like that. I don't think about it usually, except when it gets brought up on the boards. But I never think about it otherwise, because I just don't care to think about it. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

IMHO, then, you join the 63% of people in my neck of the woods (King County - greater Seattle, WA) who are simply "unaffiliated." Definitions vary, but I've understood an atheist to be one who is pretty solidly convinced that there is no god. A true agnostic is more ambivalent, but quite convinced that even if there is one--he's not personally involved in this world, and we cannot know him/her. From what you are saying here, it seems that religion and the pursuit of spirituality has simply become a non-issue for you. Move to Seattle and join the crowd!

[Elphaba]

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Usually it's in the form of "I don't care." I'm sort of like that. I don't think about it usually, except when it gets brought up on the boards. But I never think about it otherwise, because I just don't care to think about it. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

IMHO, then, you join the 63% of people in my neck of the woods (King County - greater Seattle, WA) who are simply "unaffiliated." Definitions vary, but I've understood an atheist to be one who is pretty solidly convinced that there is no god. A true agnostic is more ambivalent, but quite convinced that even if there is one--he's not personally involved in this world, and we cannot know him/her. From what you are saying here, it seems that religion and the pursuit of spirituality has simply become a non-issue for you. Move to Seattle and join the crowd!

You know what? I think you and Palerider should get together and figure out what I am. Am I an atheist, an agnostic, or an abba dabba doo?

Actually, there are "weak" atheists and "strong" atheists. I suspect the atheists you're talking about are the strong ones. In thinking about it, I actually used to be a stronger atheist, in that I was something of an activist in Church and State issues. But that was a long time ago.

Now I admit I am a "weak" atheist. I just don't think about it much anymore.

And if I had the wherewithal, I'd move to Seattle in a Washingtonian minute! I've ALWAYS wanted to live there! How'd you like to have an atheist for a neighbor?

Elphie

[Guest Yediyd]

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Usually it's in the form of "I don't care." I'm sort of like that. I don't think about it usually, except when it gets brought up on the boards. But I never think about it otherwise, because I just don't care to think about it. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

IMHO, then, you join the 63% of people in my neck of the woods (King County - greater Seattle, WA) who are simply "unaffiliated." Definitions vary, but I've understood an atheist to be one who is pretty solidly convinced that there is no god. A true agnostic is more ambivalent, but quite convinced that even if there is one--he's not personally involved in this world, and we cannot know him/her. From what you are saying here, it seems that religion and the pursuit of spirituality has simply become a non-issue for you. Move to Seattle and join the crowd!

You know what? I think you and Palerider should get together and figure out what I am. Am I an atheist, an agnostic, or an abba dabba doo?

Actually, there are "weak" atheists and "strong" atheists. I suspect the atheists you're talking about are the strong ones. In thinking about it, I actually used to be a stronger atheist, in that I was something of an activist in Church and State issues. But that was a long time ago.

Now I admit I am a "weak" atheist. I just don't think about it much anymore.

And if I had the wherewithal, I'd move to Seattle in a Washingtonian minute! I've ALWAYS wanted to live there! How'd you like to have an atheist for a neighbor?

Elphie

You are a closet Christian with Mormon tendencies!!!! But don't worry, you secret is safe with me!!!

[Elphaba]

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Usually it's in the form of "I don't care." I'm sort of like that. I don't think about it usually, except when it gets brought up on the boards. But I never think about it otherwise, because I just don't care to think about it. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

IMHO, then, you join the 63% of people in my neck of the woods (King County - greater Seattle, WA) who are simply "unaffiliated." Definitions vary, but I've understood an atheist to be one who is pretty solidly convinced that there is no god. A true agnostic is more ambivalent, but quite convinced that even if there is one--he's not personally involved in this world, and we cannot know him/her. From what you are saying here, it seems that religion and the pursuit of spirituality has simply become a non-issue for you. Move to Seattle and join the crowd!

You know what? I think you and Palerider should get together and figure out what I am. Am I an atheist, an agnostic, or an abba dabba doo?

Actually, there are "weak" atheists and "strong" atheists. I suspect the atheists you're talking about are the strong ones. In thinking about it, I actually used to be a stronger atheist, in that I was something of an activist in Church and State issues. But that was a long time ago.

Now I admit I am a "weak" atheist. I just don't think about it much anymore.

And if I had the wherewithal, I'd move to Seattle in a Washingtonian minute! I've ALWAYS wanted to live there! How'd you like to have an atheist for a neighbor?

Elphie

You are a closet Christian with Mormon tendencies!!!! But don't worry, you secret is safe with me!!!

The closet's too small for my broom!

OUCH!!

Um . . which "tendencie"

Elphaba

[Guest Yediyd]

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Usually it's in the form of "I don't care." I'm sort of like that. I don't think about it usually, except when it gets brought up on the boards. But I never think about it otherwise, because I just don't care to think about it. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

IMHO, then, you join the 63% of people in my neck of the woods (King County - greater Seattle, WA) who are simply "unaffiliated." Definitions vary, but I've understood an atheist to be one who is pretty solidly convinced that there is no god. A true agnostic is more ambivalent, but quite convinced that even if there is one--he's not personally involved in this world, and we cannot know him/her. From what you are saying here, it seems that religion and the pursuit of spirituality has simply become a non-issue for you. Move to Seattle and join the crowd!

You know what? I think you and Palerider should get together and figure out what I am. Am I an atheist, an agnostic, or an abba dabba doo?

Actually, there are "weak" atheists and "strong" atheists. I suspect the atheists you're talking about are the strong ones. In thinking about it, I actually used to be a stronger atheist, in that I was something of an activist in Church and State issues. But that was a long time ago.

Now I admit I am a "weak" atheist. I just don't think about it much anymore.

And if I had the wherewithal, I'd move to Seattle in a Washingtonian minute! I've ALWAYS wanted to live there! How'd you like to have an atheist for a neighbor?

Elphie

You are a closet Christian with Mormon tendencies!!!! But don't worry, you secret is safe with me!!!

The closet's too small for my broom!

OUCH!!

Um . . which "tendencie"

Elphaba I'm not saying another word till you get those cold toes off my leg and your elbow out of my back!!! Move over...dang it!! Yer hogging all the Blankie!!!!!!

[shanstress70]

Thanks for that explanation, Elphaba. I think there is a problem with those two words (atheist and agnostic), as when I looked up the definitions of them they are widely varied. With my last post to you, I was going on the definition that atheist = sure that no god exists, while agnostic = don't know or care if a god exists.

And even if someone is sure that no god exists, I still respect that belief; however, I maintain that it takes as much faith (or more in my eyes) to say that everything started from nothing. If you can exercise that much faith in one direction, why not go ahead and exercise it in the other direction... just in case. :)

However, I see now that your beliefs don't fit what I was saying. Right or wrong, I consider you agnostic just by the way I personally define the words.

And I think God has mercy on people like you. As I've said before, I think it's genetic whether we can have faith or not. Some people have brains that just aren't wired to accept such things for which there is no proof. I understand that you can not make yourself believe even if you wanted to. I know several people like this in real life who would believe if they could. I'm sure there are people who go to church and go through the motions who try every day but cannot make themselves believe. I also know that some of the people who don't believe happen to give more and try to help others, while many Christians think it's enough that they believe.

Sorry, I'm rambling... I'm still asleep... need coffee.

[tiancum]

Yesterday, I spoke about this in church. Mind you, there I am up there--the chaplian--the guy with the suit and collar, standing in front of a group of men, wearing khaki uniforms, most wondering whether they are look at a few years or a couple of decades "behind the wall." I asked them, "How many of you know someone who is an atheist or a non-Christian, but who is nicer, more interesting, more intelligent, and perhaps more compassionate than most of the Christians you know?" Roughly half the hands went up.

I continued, I might be at a level 5 on a scale of 10. Your friend might be an 8 or a 9. However, without Christ I probably wouldn't make the first level. With Christ, your friend might top the 10 level. The Spirit of God does not make me better than you, He makes me better than me.

On the other hand, as a general rule, Christians should be better. We should be kinder, more compassionate, more intelligent, and harder working. God forgives us that we often are not.

What a beautiful way of stating it.

Again PC, I am impressed with you and your words. They are truly the words of life.

[prisonchaplain]

Now I admit I am a "weak" atheist. I just don't think about it much anymore.

And if I had the wherewithal, I'd move to Seattle in a Washingtonian minute! I've ALWAYS wanted to live there! How'd you like to have an atheist for a neighbor?

Elphie

Response #1: You mean like having one more to add to the million or so already living in the Pacific Northwest would change the dynamics, much?

Response #2: Actually, in my immediate neighborhood, you might want to learn Korean--seems our new development is about 70%. Pan-gap-sum-ni-da! (Nice to meet you!)

[tahitimurri]

I was brought up a morman since I was 3.now im 28...and in the last 9 years ihave been to church not much,,,but have been to other christian churches....I have so many questions that cant be answered...like jesus says there is no marriage in heaven...and morman says there is!!!! dont work on sabbath but yet heaps of mormans play sports on sunday,,,,, Our lord and saviour NEVER EVER once spoke one word of joseph smith or the true gospel being taken off the earth... This is a huge point!!!OUR lord didnt say one thing about JOESPH smith!!! I just find it hard to believe joesph smith.....but I believe everything my lord and saviour says!!! the old testament and bible all talk about the coming of the messiah than jesus fulfills this by coming to the earth (new testament) ...and jesus says gospel ends with me.....jesus crushed the idea of Jewish being holy and that all people (gentiles etc jews/samaritans..) were equal and can be blessed and saved...but yet morman church says black people were cursed until late 1970's..this is rubbish!!! the question I ask myself is "did our lord saviour Jesus teach and leave us enough directions (gospel) to return to him and live righteously...

please dont take offense..just speaking from the heart!!!! so much gospel interpretation in this world especially religion..

[pam]

I was brought up a morman since I was 3.now im 28...and in the last 9 years ihave been to church not much,,,but have been to other christian churches....I have so many questions that cant be answered...like jesus says there is no marriage in heaven...and morman says there is!!!! dont work on sabbath but yet heaps of mormans play sports on sunday,,,,, Our lord and saviour NEVER EVER once spoke one word of joseph smith or the true gospel being taken off the earth... This is a huge point!!!OUR lord didnt say one thing about JOESPH smith!!! I just find it hard to believe joesph smith.....but I believe everything my lord and saviour says!!! the old testament and bible all talk about the coming of the messiah than jesus fulfills this by coming to the earth (new testament) ...and jesus says gospel ends with me.....jesus crushed the idea of Jewish being holy and that all people (gentiles etc jews/samaritans..) were equal and can be blessed and saved...but yet morman church says black people were cursed until late 1970's..this is rubbish!!! the question I ask myself is "did our lord saviour Jesus teach and leave us enough directions (gospel) to return to him and live righteously...

please dont take offense..just speaking from the heart!!!! so much gospel interpretation in this world especially religion..

Okay I'm going to address the working on Sunday portion. There is nothing that says we are forbidden or that it is taboo to work on Sunday. It is suggested and recommended not to when feasible. For those that play Sports, it is their job and for some those games lie on Sunday. What about those that provide public service? Police, nurses, doctors etc. Are they to be condemned because they work on Sunday? I think not. I am a single mom with 3 teenagers and sometimes my job requires me to work on Sunday. Does that make me a bad person? Gosh I hope not.