Right-wing Republicans

[john doe]

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Many choose to vote Republican because they perceive that is how their leaders will vote and they wish to follow the leader. Economically, most LDS are working class people who have historically had much more in common with the Democrats, but have never-the-less forsaken the urge to vote their pocketbook rather than their religion. How this relates to Provo is that it has been my experience that Utah County and Provo, its county seat, are inundated with a very high percentage of working class Republicans.

I figured this was going to be the answer, but felt obliged to ask.

This is is pretty much a mirror statement of the same flawed logic and generalizations that says: "your not voting your faith if you don't vote for Republicans, because they oppose abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, or whatever the social issue du jour is"

Also isn't Provo in district 2? The same district that has elected a Democrat since the early 90's, the only Democrat in congress from either The House or the Senate from the state?

Shhh, don't tell anybody about that bit of dirty laundry.

What's really scary is that Utah's democrat representative is probably more conservative than our republican governor, who is lately showing himself to be quite liberal. This governor, by the way, is also the son of a GA, so in theory, at least, he should show SOME semblance of a conservative streak, but to date, has not. It appears he is a republican in name only, he used the party to get elected but has not shown any interest in espousing conservative values. Maybe it's partly because the republicans as a whole have moved away from conservatism, and may be one of the reasons many conservatives are not happy with current republicanism either.

[FrankJL]

I've heard your mayor in SLC is a total nut job too?

[pam]

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Many choose to vote Republican because they perceive that is how their leaders will vote and they wish to follow the leader. Economically, most LDS are working class people who have historically had much more in common with the Democrats, but have never-the-less forsaken the urge to vote their pocketbook rather than their religion. How this relates to Provo is that it has been my experience that Utah County and Provo, its county seat, are inundated with a very high percentage of working class Republicans.

I figured this was going to be the answer, but felt obliged to ask.

This is is pretty much a mirror statement of the same flawed logic and generalizations that says: "your not voting your faith if you don't vote for Republicans, because they oppose abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, or whatever the social issue du jour is"

Also isn't Provo in district 2? The same district that has elected a Democrat since the early 90's, the only Democrat in congress from either The House or the Senate from the state?

So then if I am all for stem cell research who do I vote for without voting Democrat? That is probably one of the issues of the Republican party that I disagree with. But to vote Democratic...no way. There have been teasers on tv about the tv show House. House is walking down the corridor with the hospital administrator. She asks...where did you come from? He said...from apes if you believe the Democrats. I found it hilarious.

[Elphaba]

What's really scary is that Utah's democrat representative is probably more conservative than our republican governor, who is lately showing himself to be quite liberal. This governor, by the way, is also the son of a GA, so in theory, at least, he should show SOME semblance of a conservative streak, but to date, has not. It appears he is a republican in name only, he used the party to get elected but has not shown any interest in espousing conservative values. Maybe it's partly because the republicans as a whole have moved away from conservatism, and may be one of the reasons many conservatives are not happy with current republicanism either.

I do not in any way condone what you are saying the governor did. A candidate should keep his campaign promises, and should maintain his liberal or conservative values, because that is what his constituents voted for him to do.

The problem in Utah is that it is so hard for a Democrat to get elected. I know this isn't true everywhere. But I almost can see someone playing a Republican just to gain some credibility.

When I first came to this state I was a Young Democrat. I would get very angry because they were essentially Republicans compared to Democrats in the rest of the country. I soon came to understand their position.

So I don't condone it, but I can see some State Senator District office doing it. Too bad my campaigning days are over!

Elphaba

[FrankJL]

You go for the lesser of the two evils...

Sadly situations like yours are a fundamental reason why our two large party dominated system is so flawed.

[Elphaba]

You go for the lesser of the two evils...

Sadly situations like yours are a fundamental reason why our two large party dominated system is so flawed.

There aren't two parties in Utah.

There's the Republicans and the <strike>Democrats</strike> Republicans, at least around election time.

Elphaba

[pam]

You go for the lesser of the two evils...

Sadly situations like yours are a fundamental reason why our two large party dominated system is so flawed.

It's always sad when I feel I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. But that is what it has all come down to over the years isn't it?

[FrankJL]

So I don't condone it, but I can see some State Senator District office doing it. Too bad my campaigning days are over!

Elphaba

Thats not just unique to Utah, here where I live in we have very liberal state assemblyman (PA's equivalent to the house) who keeps on getting reelected as Republican because people don't pay attention to such small political figures, and usually vote straight party lines anyways.

<div class='quotemain'>

You go for the lesser of the two evils...

Sadly situations like yours are a fundamental reason why our two large party dominated system is so flawed.

It's always sad when I feel I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. But that is what it has all come down to over the years isn't it?

Or you could vote third party, knowing your vote won't count for much.

Or you could do what I did at last years election, I though all 3 candidates for state senator were terrible, so I did a write in vote for "Jon Stewart"

[pam]

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So I don't condone it, but I can see some State Senator District office doing it. Too bad my campaigning days are over!

Elphaba

Thats not just unique to Utah, here where I live in we have very liberal state assemblyman (PA's equivalent to the house) who keeps on getting reelected as Republican because people don't pay attention to such small political figures, and usually vote straight party lines anyways.

<div class='quotemain'>

You go for the lesser of the two evils...

Sadly situations like yours are a fundamental reason why our two large party dominated system is so flawed.

It's always sad when I feel I have to vote for the lesser of two evils. But that is what it has all come down to over the years isn't it?

Or you could vote third party, knowing your vote won't count for much.

Or you could do what I did at last years election, I though all 3 candidates for state senator where terrible, so I did a write in vote for "Jon Stewart"

Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

[Elphaba]

Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

[pam]

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Sorry, I should have enter some kind of punctuation...Boy....voting.....

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Sorry, I should have enter some kind of punctuation...Boy....voting.....

I hope my gramatical error doesn't mean I should be voting Democrat.

[FrankJL]

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Boy voting is what we do in Pittsburgh

Our Mayor Luke Ravenstall is only 27.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Sorry, I should have enter some kind of punctuation...Boy....voting.....

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Sorry, I should have enter some kind of punctuation...Boy....voting.....

I hope my gramatical error doesn't mean I should be voting Democrat.

LOL

I thought you were a perv for a minute there!

Elphie

[pam]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Sorry, I should have enter some kind of punctuation...Boy....voting.....

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>Boy voting sounds more appealing by the moment.

What's "boy voting"?

Elphie

Sorry, I should have enter some kind of punctuation...Boy....voting.....

I hope my gramatical error doesn't mean I should be voting Democrat.

LOL

I thought you were a perv for a minute there!

Elphie

Only for a minute.

[Moksha]

<div class='quotemain'>

Many choose to vote Republican because they perceive that is how their leaders will vote and they wish to follow the leader. Economically, most LDS are working class people who have historically had much more in common with the Democrats, but have never-the-less forsaken the urge to vote their pocketbook rather than their religion. How this relates to Provo is that it has been my experience that Utah County and Provo, its county seat, are inundated with a very high percentage of working class Republicans.

Moksha's argument is not original. It is the standard liberal "we know what's best for them," idea that says America votes Republican because we are foolish dupes.

NEWS FLASH:

1. Voting for politicians with ethics and moral stances is not naive or foolish.

That makes sense to vote for such politicians with ethics and moral stances instead of GOP stalwarts such as Tom DeLay, Enid Green, Mark Foley, and Larry Craig. Too many people crying holy, holy have buffaloed the voters.

2. Poor people are not necessarily better off voting for Democrats.

Haven't we always found that the interests of the poor lie with billionaires? If they have no bread then let them eat cake, eh?

BTW, I had heard this argument some eight years ago, after Bush first one. It doesn't originate with Provo, UT, but with Kansas. http://www.tcfrank.com/wmk.html

No, the magnitude of the desire to follow the leader is unprecedented in Utah politics. The voters wish to do good by being obedient.

[prisonchaplain]

The fact that a few Republicans have strayed from their values--usually to surrender their careers for doing so, and usually with deep shame and genuine guilt--does not indicate that the policies and positions values voters elected them to enact are in error. Rather, it is that folk like Craig succumbed to temptation, and were deeply ashamed that they did not live up to the moral standards they had lived and campaigned for so loyally.

In other words: Craig sinned by sinning, not by advocating righteousness.

As for the argument that Republicans = billionaires, meaning they could care less about the poor, I'm not so sure Democrat politicians aren't mostly rich also.

Bottom line: The arrogance of this argument that values voters are too stupid to vote for the benighted economic wisdom that the Democrats so graciously offer is the ultimate death nail for the party left of the aisle. LIberals have become like the comedian who blames his failed performance on an audience too stupid to get his jokes.

[FrankJL]

First of all let me say I'm not a Republican, but to say that its only Republicans that have ethics issues and billionaires in Washington is ludicrous. I'm thinking of a scripture here...Matthew 7:5, yes thats it....

Dems with ethics issues (off the top of my head)

Barney Frank running a gay prostitution ring out of his apartment.

Ted Kennedy / Bill Clinton - I don't think I need to say anymore here.

Cynthia McKinney(sp?) assaulting a capitol police officer for not letting her bypass security at the capitol.

Al Gore Jr. caught in CA driving his prius over 100mph with marijuana and prescription pain meds with someone else's name on it in his car. I'm still iffy on this one though, I have a hard time believing a prius can do 100mph This was the second time he's been pulled over by the police and found to be in possesion of marijuana 2003 and 2007.

William Jefferson took bribe money and kept it in a freezer in his New Orleans home. After Katrina had several vehicles of the LA National Guard deverted to his house just to retrieve this freezer. Stemming the ever popular joke about Jefferson's "cold hard cash"

Jim McGreevey affair with two gay lovers. One of his boyfriends Golan Cipel, an Isreali, McGreevey appointed as his states director of homeland security despite the fact he didn't have any knowledge applicable to the job, and as a non-US citizen he wouldn't be able to obtain the high level security clearance he would need for the job.

Millionaire Republicans..

Well read for your self. Note though I couldn't find any data about the recent Senate, and Chaffee lost his reelection bid. Leaving all five top slots to be occupied by Democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.a...05&filter=S

[Palerider]

First of all let me say I'm not a Republican, but to say that its only Republicans that have ethics issues and billionaires in Washington is ludicrous. I'm thinking of a scripture here...Matthew 7:5, yes thats it....

Dems with ethics issues (off the top of my head)

Barney Frank running a gay prostitution ring out of his apartment.

Ted Kennedy / Bill Clinton - I don't think I need to say anymore here.

Cynthia McKinney(sp?) assaulting a capitol police officer for not letting her bypass security at the capitol.

Al Gore Jr. caught in CA driving his prius over 100mph with marijuana and prescription pain meds with someone else's name on it in his car. I'm still iffy on this one though, I have a hard time believing a prius can do 100mph This was the second time he's been pulled over by the police and found to be in possesion of marijuana 2003 and 2007.

William Jefferson took bribe money and kept it in a freezer in his New Orleans home. After Katrina had several vehicles of the LA National Guard deverted to his house just to retrieve this freezer. Stemming the ever popular joke about Jefferson's "cold hard cash"

Jim McGreevey affair with two gay lovers. One of his boyfriends Golan Cipel, an Isreali, McGreevey appointed as his states director of homeland security despite the fact he didn't have any knowledge applicable to the job, and as a non-US citizen he wouldn't be able to obtain the high level security clearance he would need for the job.

Millionaire Republicans..

Well read for your self. Note though I couldn't find any data about the recent Senate, and Chaffee lost his reelection bid. Leaving all five top slots to be occupied by Democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.a...05&filter=S

lets not forget ....Sen Biden.....Kennedy.....and last but not least....Sen "Sheets" Byrd.....the nickname should tell you about his past....

[FrankJL]

DOH!!!

I'm ashamed of myself...how could I forget "Sheets" Byrd???

I'm slacking..

[Palerider]

DOH!!!

I'm ashamed of myself...how could I forget "Sheets" Byrd???

I'm slacking..

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!.......wasn't he the Grand Poo Pa?????

[FrankJL]

Well...as far as I know at least Byrd didn't leave a girl drown in a river..

[Palerider]

now don't forget about Fort Worthless Jim from Texas.....LOL!!!!!

[Moksha]

Also isn't Provo in district 2? The same district that has elected a Democrat since the early 90's, the only Democrat in congress from either The House or the Senate from the state?

Utah county is in the 3rd district with a gerrymandered portion of west Salt Lake County. It remains in the solid Republican column. The 2nd district includes such likely bedfellows as urban Salt Lake County and rural southern Utah to dilute the will of the gentile voters.

[FrankJL]

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Also isn't Provo in district 2? The same district that has elected a Democrat since the early 90's, the only Democrat in congress from either The House or the Senate from the state?

Utah county is in the 3rd district with a gerrymandered portion of west Salt Lake County. It remains in the solid Republican column. The 2nd district includes such likely bedfellows as urban Salt Lake County and rural southern Utah to dilute the will of the gentile voters.

So is Provo in 2 or 3 then?

And what district anywhere in the country isn't gerrymandered?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!.......wasn't he the Grand Poo Pa?????

Actually Byrd was an "Exalted Cyclops", which is local chapter leader.