Early Morning Seminary Pros and Cons

[JohnsonJones]

24 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Wow. Very cool!

I'm from NH and I know how hard it is to get into Dartmouth, much less get a full scholarship. In fact, I've never heard of it happening because there are no scholarships given to Ivy League athletes (http://www.ivyleague.com/information/psa/index) . So your violin skills must have been great! 

They were pretty good at the time.  Some would have called them stellar and remarkable, maybe even one of the top in the nation, definitely one of the top of the state.

I had a choice though.  Did I really want to do this for the rest of my life. Something (maybe that was the spirit, sometimes it's not as definitive as we think) seemed to tell me that if I did this with the violin, that is what I'd be doing for the rest of my life.  In some ways, it was a definitive choice of mine.  It was perhaps that express reason why I ruled it out.  I choose not to be so focused on the violin.

I brag to my kids at times that when I was young, I was a solo violinist at times for various youth orchestras.  However, that is in the past, and something I made a very deliberate choice about.  I had another university also offer me a scholarship in the violin, and I chose not to utilize that opportunity either.

Because of that choice, violin is more of a background hobby of mine these days, something that I pull out occasionally, but overall a forgotten emblem of my youth.  It's years of private lessons tossed way.  On the otherhand, my sister, who never got as high or noted as I did while in our younger years, continued to pursue the violin to a degree through her college years.  She never went professional, but did decently.  I was competitive with her in High School, and I'd say that would be a regret I have now. 

Being good at something was actually what I see as a test, and one I failed at miserably in High School.  I was extremely arrogant, and had a terrible attitude.  It is something I have had a terrible time overcoming through the years.  I am now more humble, and hope that I am a far better person than I used to be, but it is one of the many trials I have in life.

Now days, I am very proud of her accomplishments, and as she continued to pursue strings in College, while I did not, I feel in many ways, she eventually exceeded what I did in my younger years.

As I said, I don't know if that was the reason Dartmouth offered it or not, but the violin was a condition of acceptance.  It could have been for multiple other reasons (I did sports, but also was a regional silver medallist in the Academic Decathlon in around 4 events and a bronze in one) that I did in extracurricular activities.

I was pretty active in high school.  I heard that you only live through High School once so make the most of it. I  took that to heart and did everything I could so as to try to have no regrets about missing out on opportunities offered in High School.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

As I said, I don't know if that was the reason Dartmouth offered it or not, but the violin was a condition of acceptance. 

Dartmouth must have been very different in the past, because in reality college doesn't work the way you are describing it. If you really were given an offer at all from a college, you'd know exactly why. It's also exceedingly rare to have the skill set needed in BOTH music and sports to get a "full ride" offer from any college, especially an Ivy League one.  

Edited February 16, 2017 by MormonGator

[Vort]

On 1/29/2017 at 6:04 PM, gdiculous said:

and all GT/PreAP classes as well as one AP class

Do not take any AP or pre-AP classes.

They do not help with college entrance. At all. If anything, the opposite is true. I repeat:

Do not take any AP or pre-AP classes.

Those classes require a great deal more homework for very little educational gain. In fact, in my experience, the AP classes are actually worse than the regular classes. My children tried several times to take AP classes. In every case, without exception, it was a bad experience, ranging from merely unpleasant to disastrous.

Do not take any AP or pre-AP classes.

Cut back on your schedule. Take the classes you really care about, and do well in them. And really learn the subject matter.

If your school district does some sort of "running start" program where you can earn community college credits for high school, by all means do that, as much as you're allowed. If you are a good student, you will almost certainly enjoy college classes far more than you will ever enjoy a high school class.

Oh, yes. One more thing, in case no one has mentioned it:

DO NOT TAKE ANY AP OR PRE-AP CLASSES

Edited February 16, 2017 by Vort

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Do not take any AP or pre-AP classes.

Do not take any AP or pre-AP classes.

Do not take any AP or pre-AP classes.

DO NOT TAKE ANY AP OR PRE-AP CLASSES

So what are you saying? 

Edited February 16, 2017 by MormonGator

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

DO NOT TAKE ANY AP OR PRE-AP CLASSES

I'm going to majorly disagree with you there, but not going to derail the thread by arguing it.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm going to majorly disagree with you there, but not going to derail the thread by arguing it.

Well he obviously doesn't feel very passionate about it. I think you'd be fine. 

[Vort]

5 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I have a couple of questions: 

1.) How hard is it to get into BYU these days?  Posts here make it sound like getting into Harvard or something.

2.) If BYU is that hard to get into, is it really worth it?  I don't know because I never applied and attended a couple of Texas universities instead, but if getting into BYU were to become some kind of all-consuming thing, I think I would have opted for the University of Utah instead.  Besides, I like having a beard and don't like having my life being closely regulated by a school, of all things.  Call it my anti-authoritarian Texas roots!

My oldest did just great in high school during his first, second, and fourth years, but absolutely tanked his junior year. His GPA ended up at about 3.6. He did okay on the ACT, something around 28, reasonably strong, not stellar but not bad. He graduated from seminary and planned to serve a mission (which he did). He had some extracurriculars and some leadership experience, and earned his Eagle Scout rank. BYU did not accept him.

My second had a 3.95 GPA and a 35 ACT. Extracurriculars, seminary graduate, Eagle Scout, planned on a mission (which he served). Got into BYU with a four-year full-tuition (but not full-ride) scholarship. I think the full-rides (probably called "Monson Scholarships" now) go to 4.0 GPA/36 ACT applicants with all the extras.

My third son had a 3.98 GPA, 34 ACT, extracurriculars/seminary graduate/Eagle Scout/going to serve a mission. He was accepted into BYU with a one-year renewable full-tuition scholarship, not even a four-year scholarship. (He is such a good and disciplined student that I expect he'll keep his scholarship, but still...)

I am not complaining. I'm happy that my children who want to go to BYU can go. (My oldest doesn't want to go any more; he could go if he wanted.) But yes, BYU has become outrageously competitive to get into, and I have no doubt that has changed the makeup and attitude of the student body, probably for the better in some ways and for the worse in others. I understand that BYU was the most-accepted school by students admitted; something like 87% of students accepted to BYU actually attended, highest in the nation. (Harvard was second, with something like 86%.)

As for whether it's "worth it", that is completely the student's call. For me? Absolutely. No doubt. Changed my life. But that is not the case for everyone.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

So what are you saying? 

He really encourages AP classes.

[JohnsonJones]

7 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Dartmouth must have been very different in the past, because in reality college doesn't work the way you are describing it. If you really were given an offer at all from a college, you'd know exactly why. It's also exceedingly rare to have the skill set needed in BOTH music and sports to get a "full ride" offer from any college, especially an Ivy League one.  

Don't know if they did or didn't to be honest.  It's been decades since then, and though I remember the offers and ideas, it wasn't one I really took them up on.  I remember getting the stuff in the mail, and considering some of it, but overall, decided to go elsewhere. 

I could say it was completely based on music, but I have no idea.  It's been a long time and I don't know what all went into it.  To be honest, when I say, I don't know, it really is an I don't know.  I do feel acceptance into colleges in the upper range were more because of extracurriculars than just academics.  There were a few that I think I may have only needed academics, but many I think really looked at the whole person and my involvement in sports and music (along with other things) played a heavy role into me even getting accepted into the college, much less anything else.  My academics were not something that stood out (I did not have something like a 4.4 GPA or anything over a 4.0 like others who's academics were probably far stronger in that regard) and my SAT test scores were only around 1200 (which are incredibly low compared to even the average at the time for the higher tier schools).  I think it was the extracurriculars that balanced things out for me, or at least helped propel me to a better standing and opportunities.

The ironic thing, is the top school of my choice I probably did NOT NEED any extracurriculars to get into.  That was UGA.  At the time, compared to other places, their acceptance scores were far lower on average than what I had.  I don't know exactly what it was that got me accepted to UGA either, but I suspect that was a school that I didn't need any extracurriculars to get into.  Their acceptance letter came earlier than BYU's acceptance letter, and before BYU's came in, UGA was actually the school I was planning to attend.  As a side note, I am still a UGA fan to this day.

Even with BYU I don't know why or how I got accepted, to be honest.  If it weren't for my mother, I wouldn't have even considered it.  My Test scores were definitely one of the ones that brought down the average for my entering class (who knows, maybe without me that could have been an average SAT of 1251!? for my entering class).  With the schooling I got paid for, the only one I know definitively how it was based was the one I got for speech.  It was a small scholarship however.  That one was purely based off a speech contest which is an interesting story in and of itself.  Other ones which I applied for or received, I don't recall all the details about them these days (though some I think may have had to do more with family connections rather than any self accomplishments of mine on their own).

Something that may also cheer up the OP out of all this is that you don't necessarily have to have the highest test scores or GPA to get into BYU.  I stated the average SAT and GPA for my entering class, but my spouse had far lower than average scores getting into BYU.  I don't think she'd be pleased if I shared them here, but I will say that she got in with scores that I have no idea how she got in.  I am VERY glad she did (for obvious reasons, as I met her and got married to her) but I can say that even if you have average grades and test scores in comparison to the national scores and grades, there are those that get in.  Granted, she had many other extracurricular activities as well that were going for her (and yes, she was also a seminary graduate) and that also probably played into it.  I don't know if BYU is legacy (I think that's the proper term, it also plays into the field with other colleges, which I think is another consideration in regards to some Ivy Leagues and other universities, or at least suspect) in that if your parents go there, you have an easier time getting in.  I didn't have that with BYU, but both my wife's parents went to BYU.  However, she got into BYU with what I would call very average test scores and GPA.

Her brother which had better scores did not...so it's not all rosy.  If one REALLY wants to go to BYU, I think there is an alternate way in if one is looking for it.  At the time I went, many of the professors who taught at BYU ALSO either taught at UVSC (as it was known at the time, now known as UVU) or had counterparts who taught at UVSC.  Many of the classes transferred directly over.  If you want the Happy Valley experience, but can't get into BYU, go to UVU.  It used to be that there was a good transfer percentage from UVU to BYU as well.  If you had good grades at UVU/UVSC (it would need to be at least a 3.5 or greater I think) it was far easier to transfer to BYU in a Spring or Summer Semester.

I utilized the transferability of classes at BYU when I was there.  I couldn't get into History 201 or 202 for anything.  BYU was always packed.  However, I found that UVSC (as it was known at the time) also offered the same class, if I was willing to go there.  So, for a semester I went to BYU on M,W,F and went to UVSC on T,TH for 201/202.  Then I transferred the credits.  At the time I think it was one of the best kept secrets for certain classes which were a pain to try to get into at BYU, but very easy to get into at UVSC.

I don't know if this still exists today, but I don't know why it would not.

So, the other side of the spectrum, even if you don't get into BYU, there are other options which can give you a similar experience and eventually also could lead to getting into BYU itself...if that's what you really and strongly desire.

[zil]

8 hours ago, Eowyn said:

He really encourages AP classes.

Well, personally, I think all the young men should attend their Aaronic Priesthood classes.  And if you want to be a news reporter, the Associated Press might have a good class for you.  If you plan to go into accounting, Accounts Payable is a class you don't want to miss.  And if you're looking for work in graphics, the Adobe Photoshop class is a must-have....  So really, can you blame him?