Ahmadinejad To Speak At Columbia

[Dror]

News Story

What do you say, is Columbia University wrong to allow the Ahmadine-"jerk" to speak?

[sorry about the name-calling, but I have a serious problem with anti-Jewish Holocaust deniers who support blowing Israel off the map.]

[Josie]

I am just glad they are not allowing him to go to Ground Zero, like he wanted to do. He has no business over here, PERIOD!!!! Unless we want to put him in jail and throw away the key!

Josie (imo)

[sixpacktr]

All I can say is 'how Ivy League' of them to allow him.

In today's world, Chamberlain would be hailed as the conquering hero as we sought to 'understand' Hitler...But we don't learn the lessons of the past. That is too 'melodramatic' nowadays...

[Jason]

My understanding is not that he said the Holocaust never happened, but that it was not on the scale that has been reported (more like 2 million rather than 6 million). As for Israel, he is not asking for the death of the people but for the elimination of the government, to return it to a Palestianian state.

Really, it's not that big of a deal.

[sixpacktr]

My understanding is not that he said the Holocaust never happened, but that it was not on the scale that has been reported (more like 2 million rather than 6 million). As for Israel, he is not asking for the death of the people but for the elimination of the government, to return it to a Palestianian state.

Really, it's not that big of a deal.

I'll have to check that out for verification. I had heard that he had stated those things.

But really, do you believe that someone that runs a Shia state like this guy really doesn't want to get rid of Jews? I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong...

[Jason]

<div class='quotemain'>

My understanding is not that he said the Holocaust never happened, but that it was not on the scale that has been reported (more like 2 million rather than 6 million). As for Israel, he is not asking for the death of the people but for the elimination of the government, to return it to a Palestianian state.

Really, it's not that big of a deal.

I'll have to check that out for verification. I had heard that he had stated those things.

But really, do you believe that someone that runs a Shia state like this guy really doesn't want to get rid of Jews? I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong...

I don't think he wants to destroy all Jews. If you avoid the standard media talk, and read the letters he's written to heads of state, he presents a different picture.

I'm not saying the guy is a Saint, but I think he's been given somewhat of a bad rap.

http://www.ahmadinejad.ir/

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

My understanding is not that he said the Holocaust never happened, but that it was not on the scale that has been reported (more like 2 million rather than 6 million). As for Israel, he is not asking for the death of the people but for the elimination of the government, to return it to a Palestianian state.

Really, it's not that big of a deal.

I'll have to check that out for verification. I had heard that he had stated those things.

But really, do you believe that someone that runs a Shia state like this guy really doesn't want to get rid of Jews? I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong...

I don't think he wants to destroy all Jews. If you avoid the standard media talk, and read the letters he's written to heads of state, he presents a different picture.

I'm not saying the guy is a Saint, but I think he's been given somewhat of a bad rap.

http://www.ahmadinejad.ir/

Do I read that backwards and upside down, kind of like a 'Stairway to Heaven' thing? :)

[Dror]

My understanding is not that he said the Holocaust never happened, but that it was not on the scale that has been reported (more like 2 million rather than 6 million). As for Israel, he is not asking for the death of the people but for the elimination of the government, to return it to a Palestianian state.

Really, it's not that big of a deal.

Given that from ancient times until after WWII, the Jews did not have a homeland and so depended entirely on the benevolence of whatever government they were living under, and that more often than not people distrusted or disliked them and so the Jews were frequently persecuted and driven from country to country, I would say it is a big deal that Ahmadinejad wants to take away their sovereignty! How many Muslim countries are there? Why should they not tolerate the Jews having their own country?

And ignoring 4 million deaths is also a big deal.

[Mahdi]

News Story

What do you say, is Columbia University wrong to allow the Ahmadine-"jerk" to speak?

[sorry about the name-calling, but I have a serious problem with anti-Jewish Holocaust deniers who support blowing Israel off the map.]

<div align="center">In the name oh Allah</div>

Well Dror, mybe you are disagree of freedom.Everyone can say his belief.We should tolerate others and think about their belief wether it is right or wrong and also you shouldn't mocke others.It is against of Religion's teachings in every religions also in Islam.As one of my friend "Jason" said,If you read his site you will know him better .

[Fiannan]

<div class='quotemain'>

My understanding is not that he said the Holocaust never happened, but that it was not on the scale that has been reported (more like 2 million rather than 6 million). As for Israel, he is not asking for the death of the people but for the elimination of the government, to return it to a Palestianian state.

Really, it's not that big of a deal.

I'll have to check that out for verification. I had heard that he had stated those things.

But really, do you believe that someone that runs a Shia state like this guy really doesn't want to get rid of Jews? I find that hard to believe, but I could be wrong...

Unlike some of the Arab states Iran never expelled its Jewish community after the formation of Israel. There are around 20 thousand Jews living in Iran and at least one elected member of their parliament is a Jew.

Also, how many Iranians were involved in 9-11? Absolutely none. Bin Laden hates Shia Muslims as much as he hates infidels. Ironically, Iranians have to jump through all kinds of hurdles to visit or work in the USA while the US government puts out the red carpet for Saudi citizens (the government that funds most radical mosques around the world and encourages the Wahhabi philosophy for all Muslims).

Iran probably went full scale for gaining nuclear weapons after seeing Bill Clinton violate international law and bomb Serbia in the 1990s. Clinton would never have targeted a little country if the Serbs had had nukes -- or if they had contributed to his re-election campain I suppose. Iran realizes that the US might again violate international law and go after them so it is not only reasonable but, from an Iranian perspective it would be criminal if their leaders did not put their citizen's protection first and do their best to develop nuclear weapons to offset the US threat.

[Palerider]

If he is such a good person and or misunderstood.....wonder why he was showing off his latest weapon to Israel........

[Alaskagain]

So he has to come to US to address the UN? A friend suggests Ahmadinejad's jet be met by an official escort which will take him to the UN building, await the conclusion of his remarks, and escort him right back to the plane! Sounds good to me.

[pam]

So he has to come to US to address the UN? A friend suggests Ahmadinejad's jet be met by an official escort which will take him to the UN building, await the conclusion of his remarks, and escort him right back to the plane! Sounds good to me.

And right back to Iran. No passing go, no collecting $200.

[prisonchaplain]

He's the head of a potential nuclear state, democratically elected, and he has the ability to give us major trouble. It might be wise for us to allow him in and to take note of what he says. Wasn't it a great military stategist that advised, "Know thy enemy?"

[Jason]

Given that from ancient times until after WWII, the Jews did not have a homeland and so depended entirely on the benevolence of whatever government they were living under, and that more often than not people distrusted or disliked them and so the Jews were frequently persecuted and driven from country to country, I would say it is a big deal that Ahmadinejad wants to take away their sovereignty! How many Muslim countries are there? Why should they not tolerate the Jews having their own country?

Since when did one's racial makeup entitle one to a political state? Creating the State of Israel was wrong, but we can't very well kick them out now. The best plan is to create a new state with a new name, and give equal control of it's parliament to both Palestinians and Jews.

And ignoring 4 million deaths is also a big deal.

Indeed. But the Jewish Holocaust isn't the worst case of genocide in history (or even the 20th century). Just ask a Ukrainian. Nobody was fighting to free Ukraine after the war....

[john doe]

According to Iran, Canada is involved in human rights violations. In advance of Ahmadinejad's visit to the UN, Iran is distributing a 70 page booklet detailing how Canada is denying its people the right to food, clean water, and the right to work. I should have known those dirty Canadians were rotten, rotten to the core.

[FrankJL]

He's the head of a potential nuclear state, democratically elected, and he has the ability to give us major trouble. It might be wise for us to allow him in and to take note of what he says. Wasn't it a great military stategist that advised, "Know thy enemy?"

I'd imagine his election is on the same level as Hosni Mubarak's, which is pretty meaningless.

According to Iran, Canada is involved in human rights violations. In advance of Ahmadinejad's visit to the UN, Iran is distributing a 70 page booklet detailing how Canada is denying its people the right to food, clean water, and the right to work. I should have known those dirty Canadians were rotten, rotten to the core.

Yea...but they have free healthcare....if your willing to wait for a few months to a year..

[Fiannan]

<div class='quotemain'>

Given that from ancient times until after WWII, the Jews did not have a homeland and so depended entirely on the benevolence of whatever government they were living under, and that more often than not people distrusted or disliked them and so the Jews were frequently persecuted and driven from country to country, I would say it is a big deal that Ahmadinejad wants to take away their sovereignty! How many Muslim countries are there? Why should they not tolerate the Jews having their own country?

Since when did one's racial makeup entitle one to a political state? Creating the State of Israel was wrong, but we can't very well kick them out now. The best plan is to create a new state with a new name, and give equal control of it's parliament to both Palestinians and Jews.

And ignoring 4 million deaths is also a big deal.

Indeed. But the Jewish Holocaust isn't the worst case of genocide in history (or even the 20th century). Just ask a Ukrainian. Nobody was fighting to free Ukraine after the war....

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Israelis choose to exclude any mention of Armenian genocide by the Turks at their Holocaust museum because they did not want to tick off one of their few allies in the Mid East -- Turkey?

As for Iran I thought that the Doctrine and Covenants made it clear that a nation must NEVER attack another country unless it is provoked several times. Iran took our embassy in what, 1978? Then we funded Saddam's development of chemical weapons so he could gas Iranian soldiers. Maybe we should call it even and try to have diplomatic relations with Iran rather than mindlessly hating them.

Maybe Iran should do the China thing, set up sweatshops and invite giant American firms to produce merchandize there -- then the media will sing praises to the new "open" society of Iran (and they would not have to change a thing). Or maybe do the Indonesian thing and step up persecution of people they don't like but make sure they donate to Hillary's campaign and get a pass onit (worked for Bill).

[Dror]

<div class='quotemain'>

News Story

What do you say, is Columbia University wrong to allow the Ahmadine-"jerk" to speak?

[sorry about the name-calling, but I have a serious problem with anti-Jewish Holocaust deniers who support blowing Israel off the map.]

<div align="center">In the name oh Allah</div>

Well Dror, mybe you are disagree of freedom.Everyone can say his belief.We should tolerate others and think about their belief wether it is right or wrong and also you shouldn't mocke others.It is against of Religion's teachings in every religions also in Islam.As one of my friend "Jason" said,If you read his site you will know him better .

Mahdi,

I do not at all disagree with freedom of speech. In fact, I am possibly one of the more hard-core freedom of speech advocates you are likely to meet.

I said I do not like Ahmadinejad. I asked the other people at this forum what they thought of his speaking at Columbia. However, I never said I would deny him the opportunity to speak--I was just seeking others' opinions.

Typically I do not mock others' religious beliefs, and I certainly don't mock Islam. However, I reserve the right to mock should I so desire, because that, too is part of freedom of speech. It would be nice if people in the Taliban and al-Qaeda would practice tolerance of others and allow others their freedom of speech instead of threatening and killing them for being "infidels."

Dror

[Dror]

Since when did one's racial makeup entitle one to a political state?

It doesn't. Nor does one's religion entitle one to a political state. It just seems hypocritical that so many Muslims should demand that they be allowed to govern their countries according to Islamic law, but refuse to allow Jewish people to have their own comparatively small state.

Creating the State of Israel was wrong, but we can't very well kick them out now. The best plan is to create a new state with a new name, and give equal control of it's parliament to both Palestinians and Jews.

I don't know whether it was right or wrong to create the State of Israel, but it seems rather facile for us, who have a safe and free home and have not suffered persecution for two thousand years, to pass judgment. Having said that, I do disagree with much of what Israel does--sometimes they behave almost like a rogue nation, engaging in torture and state-sponsored terrorism. However, that can be rectified through reform, not necessarily eliminating the State of Israel.

Indeed. But the Jewish Holocaust isn't the worst case of genocide in history (or even the 20th century).

So what? Does it have to be the very worst case in order to receive our attention and be considered a tragedy?

[Canuck Mormon]

According to Iran, Canada is involved in human rights violations. In advance of Ahmadinejad's visit to the UN, Iran is distributing a 70 page booklet detailing how Canada is denying its people the right to food, clean water, and the right to work. I should have known those dirty Canadians were rotten, rotten to the core.

It's true. Please send food, clean water and money. Oh wait, our dollar is worth the same as the American. Never mind the last one.

Let him speak, that way the US won't have to spend the money to send a seal team to Iran. They can take him out in New York.

PS - I'm NOT advocating that he be assasinated.

[sixpacktr]

I know that we have the same problems up here in WNY as those in Texas do: lots of Canadians swimming across Lake Erie and Ontario to escape the drastic conditions in Ontario. And I always ask for bottled water when in Canada. I don't want to get 'Royal Canadian Mounted Police Revenge' anytime soon!

[Dror]

Let him speak, that way the US won't have to spend the money to send a seal team to Iran. They can take him out in New York.

PS - I'm NOT advocating that he be assasinated.

Yeah, they can take him out to DINNER! I hear they have great restaurants in New York!

[Jason]

It just seems hypocritical that so many Muslims should demand that they be allowed to govern their countries according to Islamic law, but refuse to allow Jewish people to have their own comparatively small state.

I think you are failing to grasp all the facts here. Nobody, not even Muslims, cares if Jews have their own "homeland". The problem is that they basically "stole" the land know known as Israel from the Palestinians and created their own Nation State. That's what pissed off the Muslim world.

I don't know whether it was right or wrong to create the State of Israel, but it seems rather facile for us, who have a safe and free home and have not suffered persecution for two thousand years, to pass judgment.

Who is the "us" you are talking about? I cannot think of a single race, religion or state that has not suffered in two thousand years. Can you?

Having said that, I do disagree with much of what Israel does--sometimes they behave almost like a rogue nation, engaging in torture and state-sponsored terrorism. However, that can be rectified through reform, not necessarily eliminating the State of Israel.

I am not advocating the elimination of the people of Israel. I am advocating powersharing in the Nation State of Israel.

So what? Does it have to be the very worst case in order to receive our attention and be considered a tragedy?

Because they make it out like it was the worst event in human history, and that was the justification for creating the Nation of Israel!

[Dror]

Who is the "us" you are talking about? I cannot think of a single race, religion or state that has not suffered in two thousand years. Can you?

I could have phrased it better. I didn't mean suffering in general, but suffering persecution on account of religion. Everybody suffers something or other: sickness, war, poverty, etc., and no groups is exempt. Most religions have also been persecuted at one time or another, but not as consistently as the Jews have been persecuted in so many places and for such a long time. Heck, Mormons were persecuted, but for a relatively short time. It would not be fair to compare the Mormon experience to the Jewish experience.

I am not advocating the elimination of the people of Israel. I am advocating powersharing in the Nation State of Israel.

I understand your position. But many Muslims do not share your position, do not want power sharing, but do advocate eliminating the State of Israel.

In principle I agree with the idea of power sharing in Israel. That's democracy. Actually pulling it off will be very, very difficult though, because of trust issues and historical reasons. I hope they can do it, but am not optimistic.