Why did Nephi have to kill Laban?

[Rob Osborn]

36 minutes ago, james12 said:

I don't believe the scriptures support your interpretation that Nephi did not see killing Laban as a severe trial. Nephi tells us that he debated within himself about killing Laban, "but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him" (1 Ne 4:10). This man of courage and of a burning desire to follow the Lord questioned in his heart. This is the same man who said, "for thus hath the Lord commanded me, and I must obey" (2 Ne 33:15). He did not say, "should obey", he did not say "might obey" he did not even say "will obey" he said "must obey". This same man questioned the Lord when commanded to kill Laban. This was a trial indeed. 

 

It was a trial indeed, just not that hard of a one. It wasnt one that caused him great confusion or a loss of testimony. Once he logically made the case in his mind it was a done deal and he killed him and quickly moved on.

[james12]

31 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It was a trial indeed, just not that hard of a one. It wasnt one that caused him great confusion or a loss of testimony. Once he logically made the case in his mind it was a done deal and he killed him and quickly moved on.

It is the portion in bold I question. What evidence do you have to support that assertion?

[Blueskye2]

16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Wouldnt of even thought twice about it, I would of taken his hair and swiped his head off just as Nephi did. No trial at all. Trials that effect personal life such as bad health, sickness, disease, etc, are indeed truly saddening, but lopping off the head of a cankerous individual is like get er done, move on, whats next? Travel in the desert? No problem, Build a ship? No problem. Of course there are trials on the way but they happen, you move on to the next.

I read ISIS is hiring. 

[Rob Osborn]

14 minutes ago, james12 said:

It is the portion in bold I question. What evidence do you have to support that assertion?

There isnt any evidence that would show it was a difficult trial. Never does Nephi question his actions after he does it. There isnt anything showing it was a great trial. It was a greater trial for Lehis wife not knowing what was going on this whole time.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, Blueskye2 said:

I read ISIS is hiring. 

Planning on joining them eh? Ive heard they are the bad guy and I dont think of you as the bad guy.

[Blackmarch]

23 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Not sure they are the same thing at all.

There are probably better examples that are closer in circumstance, but it was what was being related to. It was difficult enough for even nephi to hesitate and doubt for a moment. And i would guess that it would be more that aspect rather than what the actual circumstances were

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

There are probably better examples that are closer in circumstance, but it was what was being related to. It was difficult enough for even nephi to hesitate and doubt for a moment. And i would guess that it would be more that aspect rather than what the actual circumstances were

Yeah, the example given is like worlds apart, doesnt make any sense. If one wants to discuss why Nephi had to kill Laban thats one thing, but to equate it to people suffering in sickness is strange.

[Blackmarch]

35 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Yeah, the example given is like worlds apart, doesnt make any sense. If one wants to discuss why Nephi had to kill Laban thats one thing, but to equate it to people suffering in sickness is strange.

Generally my go to reference for when one is being faced with a significant challenge is usually christ's time in gethsemine. Thats probably even more apart in circumstance.

I sometimes also use Joseph Smiths revelation he recieved while in jail

Nephi's situation is also fairly unique; he is told exactly why he must go through his ordeal.

How often do we wish to be able to have that insight?

Edited May 9, 2017 by Blackmarch

[Rob Osborn]

38 minutes ago, Blackmarch said:

Generally my go to reference for when one is being faced with a significant challenge is usually christ's time in gethsemine. Thats probably even more apart in circumstance.

I sometimes also use Joseph Smiths revelation he recieved while in jail

Nephi's situation is also fairly unique; he is told exactly why he must go through his ordeal.

How often do we wish to be able to have that insight?

True. My bet is that Nephi spent less than 10 minutes running it through his mind before cutting his head off. He was collected enough after that that Zoram didnt have a clue it wasnt Laban. This tells me that Nephis nerves were very much intact. Now, I watch my neighbor who has cancer and watch her suffer and her husband really struggle. This has been going on a ling long time. Not sure how 10 minutes of contemplation prior to cutting off Labans head could possibly compare to years of suffering and pain.

[Blackmarch]

Out of all the hardships that nephi lives through, this is the only account we have in the BoM where he hesitates to be obedient to the Lord. Perhaps he hesitated for only a few seconds, perhaps closer to an hour.  I agree, nephi has a lot of nerve, and discipline ... Which would suggest that his wrestle before god was probably on the shorter end timewise than not. (and supports imo the suggestion that nephi either had very good training in the higher orders of the priesthood or from someone who was. Also another lesson from that event; don't dwell in the past). I would also put forth that that his struggle there was quite a bit deeper than mere contemplation.

Personally i would rather have to deal with a life of cancer than have to execute someone, even if it was for the safety of my family and and i was legally obligated to. it would take me great deal longer in that struggle.

Whatever demons one faces, usually those are the ones that appear the largest beore that person.

[Rob Osborn]

4 minutes ago, Blackmarch said:

Out of all the hardships that nephi lives through, this is the only account we have in the BoM where he hesitates to be obedient to the Lord. Perhaps he hesitated for only a few seconds, perhaps closer to an hour.  I agree, nephi has a lot of nerve, and discipline ... Which would suggest that his wrestle before god was probably on the shorter end timewise than not. (and supports imo the suggestion that nephi either had very good training in the higher orders of the priesthood or from someone who was. Also another lesson from that event; don't dwell in the past). I would also put forth that that his struggle there was quite a bit deeper than mere contemplation.

Personally i would rather have to deal with a life of cancer than have to execute someone, even if it was for the safety of my family and and i was legally obligated to. it would take me great deal longer in that struggle.

Whatever demons one faces, usually those are the ones that appear the largest beore that person.

Ive always viewed Nephi as a fearless go-getter that lived his life almost as if he was constantly on the edge of where adventure meets challenge. Theres no doubt in my mind that once Nephi decided to kill Laban he had already moved on and was thinking of his next move, his next part of the challenge, the next part of the adventure. After he kills Laban it probably was more of a challenge going forward to get the plates and figuring out what to do with Zoram, whether he would kill him or let him live with him. Im sure it crosses Nephis mind several times of him perhaps having to kill Zoram too. Luckily for Zoram, he gets put in a position where his only real option is to go with Nephi and company because Nephi isnt gonna hesitate in killing him and to somehow escape and return is almost like a death sentence anyway.

Nephi is a no nonsense guy. His delay in killing Laban is only to show his compassion and depth of thought. But once that decision is made he calculates it in an instance, carries it out, and sets up in his mind the next set of tasks. This is typical of an army General type of spirit that doesnt dwell on past ferlings or what ifs that can cause doubt to creep in. The things that trouble Nephi, his real trials, are not in killing Laban, not in building a ship, nor sailing the high seas, its dealing with his brethren who just dont get it. In the end I think his greatest trial was having to leave his brethren and seek out a new home after they had been living in the new world for some time.

[askandanswer]

Why did Nephi have to kill Laban? The answer is obvious - because he was alive. If Laban was already dead, Nephi, or anyone else, would not have had to kill him. This is an entirely accurate and truthful answer. Its also of no value whatsoever.  

[james12]

6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Ive always viewed Nephi as a fearless go-getter that lived his life almost as if he was constantly on the edge of where adventure meets challenge. Theres no doubt in my mind that once Nephi decided to kill Laban he had already moved on and was thinking of his next move, his next part of the challenge, the next part of the adventure. After he kills Laban it probably was more of a challenge going forward to get the plates and figuring out what to do with Zoram, whether he would kill him or let him live with him. Im sure it crosses Nephis mind several times of him perhaps having to kill Zoram too. Luckily for Zoram, he gets put in a position where his only real option is to go with Nephi and company because Nephi isnt gonna hesitate in killing him and to somehow escape and return is almost like a death sentence anyway.

Nephi is a no nonsense guy. His delay in killing Laban is only to show his compassion and depth of thought. But once that decision is made he calculates it in an instance, carries it out, and sets up in his mind the next set of tasks. This is typical of an army General type of spirit that doesnt dwell on past ferlings or what ifs that can cause doubt to creep in. The things that trouble Nephi, his real trials, are not in killing Laban, not in building a ship, nor sailing the high seas, its dealing with his brethren who just dont get it. In the end I think his greatest trial was having to leave his brethren and seek out a new home after they had been living in the new world for some time.

A lot of speculation here particularly since Nephi tells us, "And I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do." (1 Ne 4:6). I can only suppose that you assume he was led by the spirit to Laban but after he cut off Laban's head he somehow figured it all out. He knew he was going to bump into Zoram. He knew Zoram would believe him if he talked like Laban. He even knew that Zoram would try and run away so he planned to grab him and swear him to an oath. This is quite a stretch. 

Is it possible that Nephi was following the spirit at almost every turn? Might he have seen Laban, then was directed to cut off his head? Once he cut off his head he understood that he could take the sword and outer garments off Laban and put them on? Once he got the plates he decided to have Zoram carry them to the outer wall? Once he reached his brother's he decided to yell at them in his own voice and hold Zoram so he could not escape? Indeed this may look like planning but perhaps it wasn't Nephi's plan at all but instead the Lord's. Of Nephi's experience Elder Carmack once said this, "Notice that faith and trust in the Lord come first. Then came action. He had no plan except confidence in the Lord. It was really a "ready, fire, aim" approach, the opposite of conventional wisdom...Then the Lord's plan unfolded with Nephi being guided by unseen hands." (General Conference, April 1993).

The takeaway here is not that one should (or even can) plan our each and every move like a military general. Instead, do as Nephi did, and follow the spirit every moment. Sometimes you will be able to see a few steps ahead. But many times you will not. During moments where you cannot see far, you can move forward in faith. Do what is required in the moment given you. Then do the next thing and the next, with confidence and trust in the Lord. In doing so it may appear to others as though you had a plan. But you will know it was not your plan but the Lord's who was guiding and directing you each step of the way. 

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, james12 said:

A lot of speculation here particularly since Nephi tells us, "And I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do." (1 Ne 4:6). I can only suppose that you assume he was led by the spirit to Laban but after he cut off Laban's head he somehow figured it all out. He knew he was going to bump into Zoram. He knew Zoram would believe him if he talked like Laban. He even knew that Zoram would try and run away so he planned to grab him and swear him to an oath. This is quite a stretch. 

Is it possible that Nephi was following the spirit at almost every turn? Might he have seen Laban, then was directed to cut off his head? Once he cut off his head he understood that he could take the sword and outer garments off Laban and put them on? Once he got the plates he decided to have Zoram carry them to the outer wall? Once he reached his brother's he decided to yell at them in his own voice and hold Zoram so he could not escape? Indeed this may look like planning but perhaps it wasn't Nephi's plan at all but instead the Lord's. Of Nephi's experience Elder Carmack once said this, "Notice that faith and trust in the Lord come first. Then came action. He had no plan except confidence in the Lord. It was really a "ready, fire, aim" approach, the opposite of conventional wisdom...Then the Lord's plan unfolded with Nephi being guided by unseen hands." (General Conference, April 1993).

The takeaway here is not that one should (or even can) plan our each and every move like a military general. Instead, do as Nephi did, and follow the spirit every moment. Sometimes you will be able to see a few steps ahead. But many times you will not. During moments where you cannot see far, you can move forward in faith. Do what is required in the moment given you. Then do the next thing and the next, with confidence and trust in the Lord. In doing so it may appear to others as though you had a plan. But you will know it was not your plan but the Lord's who was guiding and directing you each step of the way. 

To think that Nephi had no thoughts of what his next move might be is shortsighted. Nephi still has to think and figure it out. The spirit is indeed guiding him, and just like us, the spirit guides us, but it doesnt remove us from thinking, analyzing, and making decisions and then moving in that decision of direction that "feels right". I remember once we went on a family boating trip and after we had got out on the lake the waters were getting very choppy. I remember feeling the spirit move upon us that we should turn around. We quickly decided to turn around. After we turned around it felt right but there was no way we were gonna make it back. Then, we saw a small island, we decided to go there, it felt right. After we landed, again it felt right and we made a fire and dried our clothes out. It all felt right. Later on, the winds died down and we made it back to the dock and made it home safely after that. During the ordeal I felt like me and both of my brothers were led by the spirit to help guide us. But, I also felt it required action making and decision making on our part in order for the spirit to work. Whereas answers were given, our thought processes and ecperience and problem solving were all part of it. The spirit works with us, not exclusively for us.