False spirits in the Church

[laronius]

This post is an offshoot of the TEST thread but I wanted to address a specific "test" that I think will prove to be an increasing threat among members of the Church.

In the early days of the Church there was much said about the role false spirits would play both in the Church and the world at large. The Lord was very vocal, through the prophet Joseph Smith, in His warnings about not being deceived by false spirits or by those who themselves had been deceived. Section 50 of the D&C came as a result of this concern. Other later prophets spoke about their concern that members of the Church were being deceived as well. 2000 years ago the Lord spoke about false Christs who come among us in the latter-days with the intent to deceive. Here is a small sampling of what earlier prophets have said:

Joseph F Smith - There has, perhaps, never been a period in the history of the Church when the delusive spirits that are abroad in the world, deceiving the children of men, were more active than they are and have been for the last few years. I have never in my recollection heard of so many pretended prophets and revelations, special messages, missions and manifestations to various individuals, as have come to my notice within the last few months or perhaps years. Some claim that they are in constant communication with angels, others that they have received a direct command from God to accomplish a certain mission, others claim to be Christ, and therefore assume the right to dictate and direct the labors of the Presidency and Twelve, and undertake to correct and set them right and to show them wherein they lack inspiration, etc., and wherein it is necessary that a strong arm should be raised up in order to steady the ark of Zion. http://jod.mrm.org/24/187

Brigham Young - It was revealed to me in the commencement of this Church, that the Church would spread, prosper, grow and extend, and that in proportion to the spread of the Gospel among the nations of the earth, so would the power of Satan rise. It was told you here that Brother Joseph warned the Elders of Israel against false spirits. It was revealed to me that if the people did not receive the spirit of revelation that God had sent for the salvation of the world, they would receive false spirits, and would have revelation. Men would have revelation, women would have revelation, the priest in the pulpit and the deacon under the pulpit would have revelation, and the people would have revelation enough to damn the whole nation, and nations of them, unless they would hearken to the voice of God. It was not only revealed to Joseph, but to your humble servant, that false spirits would be as prevalent and as common among the inhabitants of the earth as we now see them. http://jod.mrm.org/13/274

Joseph Smith - One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc., and imagine that when there is anything like power, revelation, or vision manifested, that it must be of God... Who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human... A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. TPJS 203-205

We hear of such things happening in the Church in our day but on a pretty small scale it seems. It makes me wonder if this phenomena will become more pronounced as time goes on and will form the basis for much of the testing that will take place. Thoughts?

[Anddenex]

This is something we all have to be cautious of within ourselves, and thankfully we have prophets that allow us to check our own revelations with.

[CV75]

21 hours ago, laronius said:

This post is an offshoot of the TEST thread but I wanted to address a specific "test" that I think will prove to be an increasing threat among members of the Church.

In the early days of the Church there was much said about the role false spirits would play both in the Church and the world at large. The Lord was very vocal, through the prophet Joseph Smith, in His warnings about not being deceived by false spirits or by those who themselves had been deceived. Section 50 of the D&C came as a result of this concern. Other later prophets spoke about their concern that members of the Church were being deceived as well. 2000 years ago the Lord spoke about false Christs who come among us in the latter-days with the intent to deceive. Here is a small sampling of what earlier prophets have said:

Joseph F Smith - There has, perhaps, never been a period in the history of the Church when the delusive spirits that are abroad in the world, deceiving the children of men, were more active than they are and have been for the last few years. I have never in my recollection heard of so many pretended prophets and revelations, special messages, missions and manifestations to various individuals, as have come to my notice within the last few months or perhaps years. Some claim that they are in constant communication with angels, others that they have received a direct command from God to accomplish a certain mission, others claim to be Christ, and therefore assume the right to dictate and direct the labors of the Presidency and Twelve, and undertake to correct and set them right and to show them wherein they lack inspiration, etc., and wherein it is necessary that a strong arm should be raised up in order to steady the ark of Zion. http://jod.mrm.org/24/187

Brigham Young - It was revealed to me in the commencement of this Church, that the Church would spread, prosper, grow and extend, and that in proportion to the spread of the Gospel among the nations of the earth, so would the power of Satan rise. It was told you here that Brother Joseph warned the Elders of Israel against false spirits. It was revealed to me that if the people did not receive the spirit of revelation that God had sent for the salvation of the world, they would receive false spirits, and would have revelation. Men would have revelation, women would have revelation, the priest in the pulpit and the deacon under the pulpit would have revelation, and the people would have revelation enough to damn the whole nation, and nations of them, unless they would hearken to the voice of God. It was not only revealed to Joseph, but to your humble servant, that false spirits would be as prevalent and as common among the inhabitants of the earth as we now see them. http://jod.mrm.org/13/274

Joseph Smith - One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc., and imagine that when there is anything like power, revelation, or vision manifested, that it must be of God... Who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human... A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. TPJS 203-205

We hear of such things happening in the Church in our day but on a pretty small scale it seems. It makes me wonder if this phenomena will become more pronounced as time goes on and will form the basis for much of the testing that will take place. Thoughts?

Man is spirit (D&C 93:33). I think a false spirit can include a false or lying person. Or a person who promotes the secular over the spiritual, and tried to get the saints to conform to uninspired popular and political forces and ideas of the world.

[Traveler]

 

I have come to the conclusion that as mortals we are not the individuals many think we are.  For example, I do not think that we make any decisions or choices on our own – I believe our decisions and choices are all made with the influence of various spirits – aligned either with G-d or Satan.   We are warned that whatever spirit we list to obey in this life that the same spirit will have power over us in the next life.

Sometimes when conversing with others I have the impression that they believe there are 3 possibilities – one that we listen and obey the promptings of the spirit of G-d, two that we listen and obey the promptings of Satan or that there is a third option that we have the agency to determine things for ourselves.   I have come to believe the belief in the third option is itself the influence of a false spirit. 

Our choice in this life is binary – to listen to and obey G-d or become shacked and imprisoned under the influences of Satan.  We may become masters of our own fate in a distant future by relying and trusting (faith) for now on G-d but I do not believe it is possible to be an independent individual in this life.

 

The Traveler

Edited September 28, 2017 by Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

 

I have come to the conclusion that as mortals we are not the individuals many think we are.  For example, I do not think that we make any decisions or choices on our own – I believe our decisions and choices are all made with the influence of various spirits – aligned either with G-d or Satan.   We are warned that whatever spirit we list to obey in this life that the same spirit will have power over us in the next life.

Sometimes when conversing with others I have the impression that they believe there are 3 possibilities – one that we listen and obey the promptings of the spirit of G-d, two that we listen and obey the promptings of Satan or that there is a third option that we have the agency to determine things for ourselves.   I have come to believe the belief in the third option is itself the influence of a false spirit. 

Our choice in this life is binary – to listen to and obey G-d or become shacked and imprisoned under the influences of Satan.  We may become masters of our own fate in a distant future by relying and trusting (faith) for now on G-d but I do not believe it is possible to be an independent individual in this life.

 

The Traveler

I do believe in a binary set of cicumstances with heaven or hell but I disagree on the point about following spirits. I believe we can follow a good or bad spirit but that within that we do have choice, we can follow after our own minds creative will.

[Traveler]

9 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I do believe in a binary set of cicumstances with heaven or hell but I disagree on the point about following spirits. I believe we can follow a good or bad spirit but that within that we do have choice, we can follow after our own minds creative will.

Perhaps sometime we can explorer this concept in more depth.  But I have come to the conclusion that we cannot even take a breath but that we are allowed and sustained to do so. (Mosiah 2:21).   Twice in my life I have been threatened with drowning – and I know for a fact when one cannot breath – nothing else matters.

As to the creative will of one’s own mind – I am not so sure such a thing exists.  If you have empirical or spiritual evidence of creative will – I would enjoy listening but I am somewhat skeptical.   As best as I understand and experience – the “light of truth” is something that seems to me that I must strive for and seek and not really something unique within me.  I have a patent for creating multi-port control for the avionics 1553 bus used on aircraft and satellites.  But the concept was not really a product of my minds creative will but more a process of being in tune with the concept that seemed to have an existence outside of me.  In essence, Nikola Tesla said the same thing concerning all his creative contributions.

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

9 hours ago, Traveler said:

Perhaps sometime we can explorer this concept in more depth.  But I have come to the conclusion that we cannot even take a breath but that we are allowed and sustained to do so. (Mosiah 2:21).   Twice in my life I have been threatened with drowning – and I know for a fact when one cannot breath – nothing else matters.

As to the creative will of one’s own mind – I am not so sure such a thing exists.  If you have empirical or spiritual evidence of creative will – I would enjoy listening but I am somewhat skeptical.   As best as I understand and experience – the “light of truth” is something that seems to me that I must strive for and seek and not really something unique within me.  I have a patent for creating multi-port control for the avionics 1553 bus used on aircraft and satellites.  But the concept was not really a product of my minds creative will but more a process of being in tune with the concept that seemed to have an existence outside of me.  In essence, Nikola Tesla said the same thing concerning all his creative contributions.

 

The Traveler

I guess its rather a moot point. Neither of us could prove our point. I will say though that God created us to be creative, the intelligence and capacity to formulate new and novel creations.

[brlenox]

On 9/27/2017 at 10:02 AM, laronius said:

This post is an offshoot of the TEST thread but I wanted to address a specific "test" that I think will prove to be an increasing threat among members of the Church.

Joseph Smith - One great evil is, that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc., and imagine that when there is anything like power, revelation, or vision manifested, that it must be of God... Who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human... A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. TPJS 203-205

We hear of such things happening in the Church in our day but on a pretty small scale it seems. It makes me wonder if this phenomena will become more pronounced as time goes on and will form the basis for much of the testing that will take place. Thoughts?

Good Topic. I see at least one possibility in the very first sentence of Joseph Smith's quote "One great evil is, that men are ignorant".  While he goes on to elucidate on particular areas in which men are ignorant the fact remains that this ignorance portends an inability to recognize the effects of Satan's presence.  Over the years I have gathered over 130 pages of quotes, stories etc from LDS sources that speak to trying the spirits.  This was done in part because over the years I have had an uncommon amount of interaction with foul spirits and in part because I felt that in order to properly negotiate increasing degrees of presence that I needed to understand more than I have learned otherwise.  This quote by Brigham Young: speaks to my second reason:

Quote

I ask, is there a reason for men and women being exposed more constantly and more powerfully, to the power of the enemy, by having visions than by not having them? There is and it is simply this—God never bestows upon His people, or upon an individual, superior blessings without a severe trial to prove them, to prove that individual, or that people, to see whether they will keep their covenants with Him, and keep in remembrance what He has shown them. Then the greater the vision, the greater the display of the power of the enemy. And when such individuals are off their guard they are left to themselves, as Jesus was. (Eternal Increase of Knowledge—Necessity of Cleaving to Every Good Principle—Men Are not Made Saints By Miraculous Gifts, But Through Obeying the Truth, and Obtaining the Witness of the Spirit. A Discourse by President Brigham Young, Delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, February 17, 1856.)

Having observed this reality in my own life and recognizing the validity of Joseph's observations that ignorance leads to trouble, I determined to make a detailed study of the subject.

I would actually think it is perhaps a concern of greater magnitude if I was not seeing Satan's efforts manifest in more prevalence in my life as it is hopefully indication that he is finding me an increasingly disturbing factor in his effort to establish his kingdom.

[laronius]

You make a great point @brlenox. The law of opposition is perhaps more active and further reaching then we at times realize. It's not simply about having opposing choices but there are also opposing forces that seek to help us make those choices. In any engagement (speaking in war terms) two focus are needed. One is discovering and exposing the enemy's weakness in order to gain advantage over them and the second is to commit sufficient resources to confront the enemy's strength so they don't gain any more advantage over you. So whenever we receive "reinforcing" experiences from the Lord we should expect equal measures of resistance from the enemy. Though sometimes it happens in reverse, the enemy increases their resistance and the Lord in turn gives us the strength we need to push back.

[brlenox]

2 hours ago, laronius said:

You make a great point @brlenox. The law of opposition is perhaps more active and further reaching then we at times realize. It's not simply about having opposing choices but there are also opposing forces that seek to help us make those choices. In any engagement (speaking in war terms) two focus are needed. One is discovering and exposing the enemy's weakness in order to gain advantage over them and the second is to commit sufficient resources to confront the enemy's strength so they don't gain any more advantage over you. So whenever we receive "reinforcing" experiences from the Lord we should expect equal measures of resistance from the enemy. Though sometimes it happens in reverse, the enemy increases their resistance and the Lord in turn gives us the strength we need to push back.

You can tell when someone responds who has knowledge because they note things that would otherwise go unsaid. You are absolutely correct that sometimes it does happen in reverse.  I have noted there there seems a continuity of experience in that they occur within a reasonable proximity - say within a year or so of the trial or affliction's successful impact.  Which is to mean that I may suffer for several years with a particular trial but when it has had the desired effect then generally that brings the sweeter expanded experiences of the Spirit and the cycle continues.