English Lessons for Jayki

[JayKi]

So is could conditional like would is to will ? Or no ?

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, JayKi said:

So is could conditional like would is to will ? Or no ?

Yes. It can be conditional or subjunctive.

If I could (subjunctive) run a mile in under 4 minutes, I would (conditional) go out for the olympics.

If you would (subjunctive) give me the proper training, I could (conditional) become the best doctor you've ever seen.

[JayKi]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Yes. It can be conditional or subjunctive.

If I could (subjunctive) run a mile in under 4 minutes, I would (conditional) go out for the olympics.

If you would (subjunctive) give me the proper training, I could (conditional) become the best doctor you've ever seen.

English is a mine field 

[NeuroTypical]

Yes.  English is a horrible language, full of non-intuitive things.  Sometimes downright deceptive things.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, JayKi said:

English is a mine field 

Only if you really care.  Most English speakers don't really know how to speak English properly.  And that's why people will usually understand you even if you mess something up in English.  Here's a perfect example:

"I" vs. "me".  It is exactly the same as "yo" and "me".  But too many people want to use "I" in English when it should be "me" when it is "john and..." because they can't tell the difference between subject pronouns and object pronouns.

Proper:

Quote

John and I went to the ballgame.

Mom gave the pie to John and me.

Improper:

Quote

John and me went to the ballgame.

Mom gave the pie to John and I.

Because people are constantly told to use "John and I" when it is the subject, they also tend to use it as the object which is incorrect.

I've found that Spanish speakers can actually make this distinction in Spanish.  But they get confused by English speakers who don't know how to speak.  So, they follow the incorrect patterns of English speakers.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Guest

[Vort]

18 minutes ago, JayKi said:

English is a mine field 

Probably true, but Carb's example just shows that, in English, the conditional and the subjunctive are often the same. It also demonstrates that English often uses the helper verbs "would", "could", and "should" to form those moods (especially the conditional) instead of inflecting the verb with yet another conjugation.

[JayKi]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Only if you really care.  Most English speakers don't really know how to speak English properly.  And that's why people will usually understand you even if you mess something up in English.  Here's a perfect example:

"I" vs. "me".  It is exactly the same as "yo" and "me".  But too many people want to use "I" in English when it should be "me" when it is "john and..." because they can't tell the difference between subject pronouns and object pronouns.

Proper:

Improper:

Because people are constantly told to use "John and I" when it is the subject, they also tend to use it as the object which is incorrect.

 I've found that Spanish speakers can actually make this distinction in Spanish.  But they get confused by English speakers who don't know how to speak.  So, they follow the incorrect patterns of English speakers.

I know this one, my mother told me take the name out and I will know correct use. 

 

You had little faith in John and me. If I take John out then it makes sense, you had little faith in me. If is you had little faith in John and I then taken John out doesn't make sense. You had little faith in I. 

 

My brother and I went to the shop is correct because me went to the shop doesn't make sense. 

[JayKi]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Probably true, but Carb's example just shows that, in English, the conditional and the subjunctive are often the same. It also demonstrates that English often uses the helper verbs "would", "could", and "should" to form those moods (especially the conditional) instead of inflecting the verb with yet another conjugation.

Does I could have been famous mean the same as I could be famous ? and I could of been famous? 

Are they all the same. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by JayKi

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I know this one, my mother told me take the name out and I will know correct use. 

Exactly.  Just the same as in Spanish.  But to assuage your fears of the "minefield" that is English, I was hoping to convey that even if you don't quite say things right, most people will still get your meaning.

For instance: If you say "Me go to store," people will still understand you.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Does I could have been famous mean the same as I could be famous ? and I could of been famous? 

Are they all the same. 

"could of" is a common corruption of "could have".  It is incorrect.  But common.

"could have been..." (past conditional or imperfect conditional) and "could be" (conditional) are different tenses, same mood.  

Edited May 7, 2018 by Guest

[JayKi]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

Exactly.  Just the same as in Spanish.  But to assuage your fears of the "minefield" that is English, I was hoping to convey that even if you don't quite say things right, most people will still get your meaning.

For instance: If you say "Me go to store," people will still understand you.

I want to speak like native speaker. 

[Vort]

3 hours ago, JayKi said:

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

"May you help me" is not correct grammar.

Can may only be use if I succeeds  it ? please may I go to the shop? Is that correct ?

In the example you give -- "Please, may I go to the shop?" -- you are asking permission to do something. This would not apply the other way around; you would not ask permission for someone else to do something.

The British might well say something like, "Might you go shopping?", using "might" instead of "may", to ask about someone's plans.

Grammatically, English is quite simple, moreso than other European languages. But I bet it has more idiomatic expressions than any other language. That and pronunciation subtleties would make English a nightmare to learn as a second language.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Vort

[JayKi]

Just now, Carborendum said:

"could have been..." (past conditional or imperfect) and "could be" (conditional) are different tenses, same mood.  

So is means same thing ? 

 

Or is could have been mean that once it was possible. Could be it still possible. 

 

I could have been a pilot but now I too old. 

 

I could be a neurosurgeon if I try hard. 

[JayKi]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

In the example you give -- "Please, may I go to the shop?" -- you are asking permission to help someone. This would not apply the other way around; you would not ask permission for someone else to help you.

 

what if I say I may go to the shop tomorrow. Does that mean I could go to the shop tomorrow? 

[Guest]

Just now, JayKi said:

I want to speak like native speaker. 

That depends on what you mean by "native speaker".  Quite honestly, most people in the English speaking world don't speak properly.

1) If you want to speak in a way that you could pass for an average American -- watch a LOT of POPULAR movies and memorize the lines.
2) If you want to speak in a way that educated people who are required to use proper wording in their profession, then you'll need to put in a LOT of study into grammar.  But the truth is that there are very few differences between Spanish grammar and English grammar.  And really, English verbs are MUCH simpler than Spanish ones.  The biggest challenges to English are

A) Pronunciation: English uses all the common sounds differently than almost any other language.
B) Spelling: Our language is such a polyglot of words that you can't simply use one rule for any given question of spelling.  There are too many exceptions.

But if you can get past those two difficulties, just study from good sources and you should be able to carry over most of your Spanish grammar into English and be fine.

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Does I could have been famous mean the same as I could be famous ? and I could of been famous? 

Are they all the same. 

I could have been famous. Another (more British) way to say this is I might have been famous. This is a present perfect conditional construction, the same as the Spanish, "Pude haber sido famoso."

I could be famous. This is a future conditional, the same as the Spanish, "Podría ser famoso."

I could of been famous. This is a common misspelling, especially among children. The problem is that, in American English, "could have" and "could of" sound almost identical unless the speaker is speaking slowly and clearly. So this is simply a mistake, not a different form.

[JayKi]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

That depends on what you mean by "native speaker".  Quite honestly, most people in the English speaking world don't speak properly.

1) If you want to speak in a way that you could pass for an average American -- watch a LOT of POPULAR movies and memorize the lines.
2) If you want to speak in a way that educated people who are required to use proper wording in their profession, then you'll need to put in a LOT of study into grammar.  But the truth is that there are very few differences between Spanish grammar and English grammar.  And really, English verbs are MUCH simpler than Spanish ones.  The biggest challenges to English are

A) Pronunciation: English uses all the common sounds differently than almost any other language.
B) Spelling: Our language is such a polyglot of words that you can't simply use one rule for any given question of spelling.  There are too many exceptions.

But if you can get past those two difficulties, just study from good sources and you should be able to carry over most of your Spanish grammar into English and be fine.

English has strange grammar, is not as well define I think. Yesterday my tutor told me is correct to say he caught me unawares and incorrect to say he caught me unaware. I never knew that adjective change in English. 

[zil]

5 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I want to speak like native speaker. 

Well, not sure what you're doing in England, then - they definitely don't speak English...

[JayKi]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

I could of been famous. This is a common misspelling, especially among children. The problem is that, in American English, "could have" and "could of" sound almost identical unless the speaker is speaking slowly and clearly. So this is simply a mistake, not a different form.

When is of used? Is it just a way to say something you rule, like The Duke of York of Duchess of Cambridge

[JayKi]

Just now, zil said:

Well, not sure what you're doing in England, then - they definitely don't speak English...

They speak English, my uncle said they speak the Queen English 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

So is means same thing ? 

"is" = "es"  It is the third person singular conjugation of "to be."  "To Be" is the only truly complex verb in English.  Most verbs only have two present tense forms when you don't count "Thou" (which no one uses anymore except quoting ancient works).

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

Or is could have been mean that once it was possible. Could be it still possible. 

That would be correct.  That is the conditional form used in a question rather than a statement.  Nothing special there.

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I could have been a pilot but now I too old. 

Yes, past conditional.

3 minutes ago, JayKi said:

I could be a neurosurgeon if I try hard. 

Again, conditional.  Nothing special.

Just think of it in Spanish.  I'm guessing you're familiar with conditional (condicional) and subjunctive (subjunctivo) in Spanish, right?  Just carry it over.

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

For instance: If you say "Me go to store," people will still understand you.

There is a strong regional component to how people talk, too. My lovely wife is intelligent and educated, yet she will sometimes say something like, "Me and Barbara are going to the store." This is grammatically incorrect, but it's how people in the Pittsburgh area talk (along with "running the sweeper" and "the rug needs swept"). I love her Pittsburghese, so I never "correct" her. But for someone learning English, I would probably correct them.

[zil]

Just now, JayKi said:

They speak English, my uncle said they speak the Queen English 

'Twas a joke.

[JayKi]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Just think of it in Spanish.  I'm guessing you're familiar with conditional (condicional) and subjunctive (subjunctivo) in Spanish, right?  Just carry it over.

I know how to say in Spanish but I never learn technical grammar until I learn English. 

[JayKi]

Just now, zil said:

'Twas a joke.

What is Twas ?