the physical and spiritual Earth

[CV75]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

What emotions were Adam and Eve created with in the Garden of Eden?

Jim

They were created with the capacity for any emotion. Jesus inherited this capacity for instinct and intuition from His parents, as we do, with Adam and Eve as our first parents (including Jesus, through Mary). The innumerable variations in capacity and expression have as many multiple causes.

[Traveler]

20 hours ago, theplains said:

What emotions were Adam and Eve created with in the Garden of Eden?

Jim

The typical human emotions - have you raised any children from birth?  I do not think I would classify a creature incapable of emotions as something divinely enlightened.  Would you?  I believe the official label of an intelligent creature without emotions is a psychopath.  Usually more associated with something demonic than divine.

 

The Traveler

[theplains]

On 9/2/2018 at 10:46 AM, Traveler said:

The typical human emotions - have you raised any children from birth?  I do not think I would classify a creature incapable of emotions as something divinely enlightened.  Would you?  I believe the official label of an intelligent creature without emotions is a psychopath.  Usually more associated with something demonic than divine.

 

The Traveler

You didn't mention any of the emotions that Adam and Eve were created with before the Fall.  For example, did they
worship God with or without joy in the Garden before the Fall?  What emotions do you believe they experienced with
each other in their marriage relationship, with nature, and the created animals?

Thanks,
Jim 

[Traveler]

5 minutes ago, theplains said:

You didn't mention any of the emotions that Adam and Eve were created with before the Fall.  For example, did they
worship God with or without joy in the Garden before the Fall?  What emotions do you believe they experienced with
each other in their marriage relationship, with nature, and the created animals?

Thanks,
Jim 

I am not sure if I understand your question - I said Adam and Eve were capable of (created with the capability of) all typical human emotions.  Do you not think that for a typical human to worship G-d will bring joy?  But there is something I think perhaps you may be missing and thus making it very difficult for you to grasp critical elements and principles in our discussion.  How can someone know the emotion of joy without any understanding of or experience with sorrow?

 

The Traveler

[theplains]

On 9/3/2018 at 1:22 PM, Traveler said:

I am not sure if I understand your question - I said Adam and Eve were capable of (created with the capability of) all typical human emotions.  Do you not think that for a typical human to worship G-d will bring joy?  But there is something I think perhaps you may be missing and thus making it very difficult for you to grasp critical elements and principles in our discussion.  How can someone know the emotion of joy without any understanding of or experience with sorrow?

I believe Adam and Eve worshipped God with joy, enjoyed each other companionship, and the beauty of God's creation
in the Garden of Eden before the Fall.   Do you agree?   

You seem to believe an experience of sorrow comes before an experience of joy.  So what experience of sorrow do you
believe you experienced in the pre-mortal life before you experienced your first joy when you supposedly lived with your
heavenly parents in some celestial paradise?

Jim

[Traveler]

25 minutes ago, theplains said:

I believe Adam and Eve worshipped God with joy, enjoyed each other companionship, and the beauty of God's creation
in the Garden of Eden before the Fall.   Do you agree?   

You seem to believe an experience of sorrow comes before an experience of joy.  So what experience of sorrow do you
believe you experienced in the pre-mortal life before you experienced your first joy when you supposedly lived with your
heavenly parents in some celestial paradise?

Jim

Worship is a vague term and in the context that you are trying to present concerning the relationship of Adam and Eve to G-d - I have no idea what you are talking about are where you may be getting your information.  For example since you believe Adam and Eve worshiped G-d - what actions of worship do you think they were doing that is distinguishable from actions of non-worship with other beings?  In short - I do not understand what you are trying to communicate.  You say they worshiped with joy.  So I wonder - why with joy?  What brought about their joy?  And what has convinced you that it was real joy within them and not something external to them over which they had not control - meaning it was not their joy?  

You seem to be assuming a lot - and I am wondering why?  I am asking if you understand your assumptions?  and if you think your assumptions are necessary - and if so why?  I think we had ideas of joy and sorrow but that any understanding was superficial and grossly incomplete.   I am inclined to believe that we had an intellectual understand of our lack or actual understanding of things because of real experiences. 

 

The Traveler

[theplains]

On 9/6/2018 at 1:08 PM, Traveler said:

In short - I do not understand what you are trying to communicate. 

From what I understand of LDS teachings, Adam and Eve could not (or did not) experience joy in the Garden of
Eden before the Fall until after they experienced misery first.

So, in the so-called pre-mortal experience, did they (or you) also experience misery first before they (you) first
experienced joy?

Thanks,
Jim

[Jersey Boy]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

From what I understand of LDS teachings, Adam and Eve could not (or did not) experience joy in the Garden of
Eden before the Fall until after they experienced misery first.

So, in the so-called pre-mortal experience, did they (or you) also experience misery first before they (you) first
experienced joy?

Thanks,
Jim

There’s a difference in the state and nature of existence between Adam’s life as a preexistent spirit son of God and his later sojourn with Eve in Eden as an embodied spirit prior to the fall. But if I understand your question correctly the answer is yes, while we existed as unembodied spirits in the pre-earth life we experienced misery, the prime example being the bitter sorrow and awful sense of loss we experienced when when our spirit brother, Lucifer, and those who followed him rebelled against God and were cast out of heaven. All existence is affirmed upon the eternal principle of the necessity of there being diametric opposition in all things. so life in the prexistence would be uttlerly meaninglessness without the spirits who dwell there being able to make choices between the good and evil realms of existence.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Jersey Boy

[Traveler]

14 hours ago, theplains said:

From what I understand of LDS teachings, Adam and Eve could not (or did not) experience joy in the Garden of
Eden before the Fall until after they experienced misery first.

So, in the so-called pre-mortal experience, did they (or you) also experience misery first before they (you) first
experienced joy?

Thanks,
Jim

We do not have a very clear picture or understanding of our pre-mortal existence.  Beyond revelation that we existed in the presents of G-d and that we were divided into 3 distinguishable parts we do not know much detail.  We are told this is because of a vale of forgetfulness.  Concerning your question - it is not so much a matter of experiencing a particular dichotomy in any order as it is that both are viable options and there is some experience with both.  Scripture speaks of a fullness of joy.  We also know that the sons of the morning shouted for joy.  Generally, I do not understand the difference between a verb and an adverb modified verb - such as joy and a fullness of joy or happy and completely happy or failure verses complete failure.  These terms seem to be more subjective than objective - never-the-less we are told by revelation that a fullness of joy can only occur when we are resurrected and there is an eternal inseparable union of the spiritual and physical.  In essence, for you and I to attempt to talk about a fullness of joy is a matter of speculation so also is the difference between joy and a fullness of joy.   We may be closer in our current physical condition than in our pre-mortal existence - but that too is speculation.

It is interesting to me that in every case where we are presented with the revelation of the Eden epoch that G-d chooses to do so in a poetic format (with the knowledge that literal non-poetic format could have been used).  I tend to think it heresy to conclude that G-d does not know what he is doing and therefore we should assume we know better than to seek a spirit of truth to understand the poetic symbolism and arrogantly assume we can simply understand all the important principles taught based in a physical literalness of the revelation.   I am suggesting that we move beyond what we think to be "historic" of our first parents to seek an understanding of a pre-mortal covenant that involves us all as thought we were Adam and Eve in the epoch.

 

The Traveler

 

 

[Guest Scott]

Quote

Do you believe Adam and Eve existed in a physical earth (our Earth) without blood in their veins before the Fall?

Of note, the Bible Dictionary and some other older sources used to say this, but it was changed in most recent years.  

Quote

What about being created physically allowed the animals to procreate before the Fall?

FAIR Mormon has a lot of discussion on this topic.   Here is some good insight:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_science/Death_before_the_Fall

Of course, a lot of it can't be considered official doctrine.  

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Concerning death before the Fall, personally I think it would have to exist.  Even if we ignore all scientific evidences of ancient life, all scriptural accounts say that Adam and Eve ate plants, herbs, and fruits.   If so, I don't think the things they ate would still be alive after digestion (or whatever happened to the things they ate).   Of course this is just my conjecture.

If anyone disagrees, do you think that the things that Adam and Eve ate were still alive after they were eaten and/or digested?

Edited September 13, 2018 by Scott

[Rob Osborn]

47 minutes ago, Scott said:

Of note, the Bible Dictionary and some other older sources used to say this, but it was changed in most recent years.  

FAIR Mormon has a lot of discussion on this topic.   Here is some good insight:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_science/Death_before_the_Fall

Of course, a lot of it can't be considered official doctrine.  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Concerning death before the Fall, personally I think it would have to exist.  Even if we ignore all scientific evidences of ancient life, all scriptural accounts say that Adam and Eve ate plants, herbs, and fruits.   If so, I don't think the things they ate would still be alive after digestion (or whatever happened to the things they ate).   Of course this is just my conjecture.

If anyone disagrees, do you think that the things that Adam and Eve ate were still alive after they were eaten and/or digested?

Do we eat in heaven?

[Guest Scott]

Quote

Do we eat in heaven?

Good question.   I would say that we could, if there is food.  I don't know what food is in heaven, or if there is any.  If there is, I hope that it's Snickers Bars.  

Jesus ate food after the Resurrection.  See Luke 24:41-43:

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Scott

[Rob Osborn]

12 minutes ago, Scott said:

Good question.   I would say that we could, if there is food.  I don't know what food is in heaven, or if there is any.  If there is, I hope that it's Snickers Bars.  

Jesus ate food after the Resurrection.  See Luke 24:41-43:

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

Im of tge belief we eat in heaven. Eating fruit doesnt mean death. The life is in the tree. 

[theplains]

On 9/13/2018 at 11:24 AM, Traveler said:

In essence, for you and I to attempt to talk about a fullness of joy is a matter of speculation so also is the difference between joy and a fullness of joy.   We may be closer in our current physical condition than in our pre-mortal existence - but that too is speculation.

What do you believe is the difference between pleasure and joy?

Thanks,
Jim 

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

What do you believe is the difference between pleasure and joy?

Thanks,
Jim 

Nothing more than the eyes of the beholder.   Do you have a better idea?

 

The Traveler