John Taylor Prophecy

[Anddenex]

President Kevin Worthen provided the following statement, "The prophecy from John Taylor declares: “You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters.”

How is this going to occur? Does this specifically mean when Zion is officially established, or are we speaking of the Church as it is now and progressing toward Zion?

[FoolsMock]

1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

President Kevin Worthen provided the following statement, "The prophecy from John Taylor declares: “You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters.”

How is this going to occur? Does this specifically mean when Zion is officially established, or are we speaking of the Church as it is now and progressing toward Zion?

I'm leaning towards your first suggestion.

[Midwest LDS]

1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

President Kevin Worthen provided the following statement, "The prophecy from John Taylor declares: “You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters.”

How is this going to occur? Does this specifically mean when Zion is officially established, or are we speaking of the Church as it is now and progressing toward Zion?

It sounds to me like after Zion is established. We definitely have a good education system in the church (Go Cougars!😉), but in order for us to be ahead of everyone else I really feel like civilization would have to be tottering. It will be, the time right before the Second Coming of Christ seems like it will consumed by anarchy, but I don't think we are there yet.

[Fether]

4 hours ago, Anddenex said:

President Kevin Worthen provided the following statement, "The prophecy from John Taylor declares: “You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters.”

How is this going to occur? Does this specifically mean when Zion is officially established, or are we speaking of the Church as it is now and progressing toward Zion?

I remember a BYU Speech that brought this up and he spoke of an experience at a science convention. After the professor’s student finished his presentation on the experiments he was doing, a man of some importance (can’t remember what his title was) commented to him “THIS is how science ought to be, we know that when it comes from BYU, it is good.”

Now honestly I may be confusing two stories from two different talks... but everything I mentioned did happen... just maybe not at the same time and place x)

[Vort]

5 hours ago, Anddenex said:

President Kevin Worthen provided the following statement, "The prophecy from John Taylor declares: “You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters.”

How is this going to occur? Does this specifically mean when Zion is officially established, or are we speaking of the Church as it is now and progressing toward Zion?

I just got off the phone from talking with my son, a BYU student who's getting ready to apply to law schools. He's looking at the Big Three. BYU's Clark law school, which is a solid school but definitely not in the top 3 (or even 40 -- though they just barely missed out on that), sent him a very nice letter (maybe email) wishing him luck and letting him know that if he had interest in BYU, they'd happily take him out to lunch to discuss the matter.

Our conversation went to what it would take for BYU to move up dramatically in the law school rankings, say crack the top 20 or even the top 10. He opined that it probably wouldn't happen in his lifetime, but it could be done if BYU upgraded its faculty and made corporate connections so its graduates could get recruited into top jobs. That would start a cycle that would move BYU up in the law school rankings, but it would take lots of time -- and lots and lots and lots and lots of money.

That's the problem with worldly success. It requires money, and it is measured in money. That is problematic because Zion is the opposite of the world, and Zion's desires are often opposite of the world's desires. Where the world cares primarily, sometimes only, about money, Zion does not give money a second thought. "Sufficient for our needs" is really the only monetary requirement (or desire) for the denizens of Zion.

So I'm guessing President Taylor didn't have college rankings or salaries in mind when he made that statement. Nibley used to quote Brigham Young a lot about how those who love learning because they think it will give them money or power mistake the matter and will never find what they are looking for. Learning must be loved for its own sake, because it is itself a thing of beauty, and not because you think it will give you an advantage over your fellow man. An attitude like that could indeed change the world if the Saints truly adopted it.

[Vort]

Brigham Young's quote on the importance of truth (which I messed up, but it more or less says what I claimed, at least if you squint):

Quote

Again, what do you love truth for? Is it because you can discover a beauty in it, because it is congenial to you or because you think it will make you a ruler, or a Lord? If you conceive that you will attain to power upon such a motive, you are much mistaken. It is a trick of the unseen power, that is abroad amongst the inhabitants of the earth, that leads them astray, binds their minds, and subverts their understanding.

Yeah, if we really believed this and acted on it, within a few generations we would be far beyond the rest of the world.

[Vort]

Another Brigham Young quote on the matter, from the same link:

Quote

Suppose that our Father in heaven, our elder brother, the risen Redeemer, the Savior of the world, or any of the Gods of eternity should act upon this principle, to love truth, knowledge, and wisdom, because they are all powerful, and by the aid of this power they could send devils to hell, torment the people of the earth, exercise sovereignty over them, and make them miserable at their pleasure; they would cease to be Gods; and as fast as they adopted and acted upon such principles, they would become devils, and be thrust down in the twinkling of an eye; the extension of their kingdom would cease, and their Godhead come to an end.

God is God because he chooses to be God, because his desires are always Godly. Those who love and worship power are, ironically (or fittingly), those who will have the least power in the eternities.