Making a Murderer

[SpiritDragon]

So, I probably never would have ended up watching this docuseries had it not been for a client who was enthralled by it and wanted me to take a look so we could discuss it together. Three years later a second installment was just put up on Netflix and I've carved out the ten hours to watch it over the last week.

After the first ten episode installment, I felt that there was insufficient evidence to rise to the level of beyond reasonable doubt by my interpretation, but it's hard to know exactly what information the jury received during the trial without getting far more invested in the whole affair than I plan to get. 

After the second part, I feel it is pretty clear that Steven Avery is not the killer and I've always felt that Brendan's confession was coerced.

Has anyone followed this at all? What are your thoughts and feelings? Is there any hope for either of these men to get their conviction rulings vacated?

For anyone who hasn't watched it yet, but is thinking about it, be aware there is a lot of language and gruesome details. 

[Just_A_Guy]

I remember back when this first came out that it turned out the film’s producers had been highly selective with the information they portrayed in the film.  Beyond that, I don’t remember much.  There’s so much outrage-porn out there these days, it’s getting hard to gauge when a true travesty has occurred.   

[NeedleinA]

22 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

After the second part, I feel it is pretty clear that Steven Avery is not the killer and I've always felt that Brendan's confession was coerced.

I would agree with this. His new lawyer dug up a ton more on his case.

22 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

There’s so much outrage-porn out there these days, it’s getting hard to gauge when a true travesty has occurred.   

Yep, we may never know.

Super entertaining binge watchable series. My wife missed me for almost a solid day.

[SpiritDragon]

46 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

I would agree with this. His new lawyer dug up a ton more on his case.

Indeed. I was amazed at how she was able to break down essentially everything the prosecution felt they had on him. The physical DNA "evidence" is all so suspect, from the blood in the Rav4 to the so-called sweat DNA at the hood latch. I really can't wrap my head around no one checking for bone fragments on the bullet from the garage in the first trial or having a burn expert explain how the Avery pit is inconsistent with being able to create the burn damage found and lacks the requisite residue that would have been left behind.

As for Dassey's confession, it astounds me that even though his story was inconsistent with the supposed evidence, he was still put away. I mean how is it that no blood in the trailer or bedroom doesn't fully discredit his false confession about slitting her throat in the bed. The throat would bleed significantly. And if they managed to be careful enough to hide all evidence of that in the trailer surely they could have covered other tracks better as well. It seems part of the reason for buying some of the evidence in the first place was that the two were too low in IQ to cover their tracks, so how would they manage having no evidence whatsoever in the primary attempted kill site and still no large bleed out in the garage where she was supposedly shot. There should have been massive bleed out from the head being shot and blood evidence would be challenging to clean from concrete flooring to the point forensic investigators couldn't detect it.

[NeedleinA]

8 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

Indeed. I was amazed at how she was able to break down essentially everything the prosecution felt they had on him. The physical DNA "evidence" is all so suspect, from the blood in the Rav4 to the so-called sweat DNA at the hood latch. I really can't wrap my head around no one checking for bone fragments on the bullet from the garage in the first trial or having a burn expert explain how the Avery pit is inconsistent with being able to create the burn damage found and lacks the requisite residue that would have been left behind.

As for Dassey's confession, it astounds me that even though his story was inconsistent with the supposed evidence, he was still put away. I mean how is it that no blood in the trailer or bedroom doesn't fully discredit his false confession about slitting her throat in the bed. The throat would bleed significantly. And if they managed to be careful enough to hide all evidence of that in the trailer surely they could have covered other tracks better as well. It seems part of the reason for buying some of the evidence in the first place was that the two were too low in IQ to cover their tracks, so how would they manage having no evidence whatsoever in the primary attempted kill site and still no large bleed out in the garage where she was supposedly shot. There should have been massive bleed out from the head being shot and blood evidence would be challenging to clean from concrete flooring to the point forensic investigators couldn't detect it.

The timing of the impending multi-million payout/settlement and the sheer embarrassment he represented for the State of Wisconsin and Manitowoc County is not something any rational viewer can really just sweep under the rug or overlook.

[SpiritDragon]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

The timing of the impending multi-million payout/settlement and the sheer embarrassment he represented for the State of Wisconsin and Manitowoc County is not something any rational viewer can really just sweep under the rug or overlook.

So true. So true. The damages they would likely have to pay out now for two wrongful convictions is astounding. 

What did you think of the en banc decision at the seventh circuit court? 

[NeedleinA]

41 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

What did you think of the en banc decision at the seventh circuit court? 

Frustration. Anger. Hopelessness.
4-3 vote - what?
A complete fear of ever being locked up myself realizing the system is there to keep you in, not facilitate you ever getting out.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by NeedleinA

[SpiritDragon]

Yeah. I couldn't believe the panel decision wasn't held. Once the en banc was approved I had great concern for a retraction of the previous two rulings. I have a hard time understanding how anyone can look at that interview and think the confession is legitimate. never mind the fact that it doesn't agree with the evidence as mentioned in my previous post.

I'm not sure how everything works in the US system, but now that the SCOTUS has rejected hearing it, is he left with no means of fighting left? If Avery gets out, would there be some way of rectifying Dassey's situation?

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm curious about something. They made a movie about a murderer who might be innocent. Good job. I have yet to see it, but I'm happy for them.

How about making a movie about a cop who was accused of something heinous then proven to be innocent? 

Edited November 5, 2018 by MormonGator

[mirkwood]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I'm curious about something. They made a movie about a murderer who might be innocent. Good job. I have yet to see it, but I'm happy for them.

How about making a movie about a cop who was accused of something heinous then proven to be innocent? 

I nominate Officer Darren Wilson of Ferguson, Missouri.

[NeedleinA]

17 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

How about making a movie about a cop who was accused of something heinous then proven to be innocent? 

Sure...

 

Quote

Life:  Storyline
Brilliant LAPD detective Charlie Crews has survived the extreme abuse befalling an innocent cop in prison, and was exonerated for the murders and released after 12 years of hell in jail.

 

[NeedleinA]

23 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 then proven to be innocent? 

If someone, anyone is innocent - butcher, baker or candle stick maker, I hope they find justice if injustice has been dealt their way.

[SpiritDragon]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

I nominate Officer Darren Wilson of Ferguson, Missouri.

I'd be really interested in watching it if they did. I've got to say that while police brutality and over-reach is certainly a possibility, I think that in order to make a judgment on what is excessive force people need to be put in the situation where their life is in jeopardy. It's easy to call it in from the couch when there is no skin in the game and another thing altogether to realize that decisions made in the heat of the moment with lives at stake don't have the luxury of time to stop, re-watch the video and analyze ad infinitum until the best possible course of action is determined with all of the facts.

[seashmore]

True life crime shows aren't necessarily always my thing, but I remember being curious about the series when it first came out.

Then my cousin posted an article about the victim that included some non-supportive quotes about the series from Theresa's family.  Turns out, my cousin had gone to college with her, and the point of cashing in on someone else's tragedy hasn't sat well with me ever since.

[SpiritDragon]

19 hours ago, seashmore said:

True life crime shows aren't necessarily always my thing, but I remember being curious about the series when it first came out.

Then my cousin posted an article about the victim that included some non-supportive quotes about the series from Theresa's family.  Turns out, my cousin had gone to college with her, and the point of cashing in on someone else's tragedy hasn't sat well with me ever since.

That's understandable. It's sad, because clearly Theresa's murder is a tragedy and the pain the documentary may bring to her family is also a tragedy, but if Steven Avery is innocent, which it appears he well could be, it's also a tragedy that an innocent man will have spent the vast majority of his life behind bars for not one, but two crimes that he did not commit. It's doubtful that without the reach of the documentary series that he ever would have been able to get the help of Kathleen Zellner, his latest post-conviction attorney. So I also struggle with the idea that none of this should have been done, because either way people are suffering. Although doubtful, it is my hope that this type of thing will help to correct corruption in the legal system.

Had justice been served properly in the first place the Halbach's could have been saved all of this extra drama. I've got to say that I have a hard time believing he is guilty at this point. So from that perspective I also find it odd that the victim's family wouldn't want to get to the truth and ensure the right person is paying for the crime. That said, I can also understand how they've spent years hating this man and it would be hard to admit that he has been in there wrongfully all this time. I expect that would cause pain as well, and they'd prefer to not rip the bandaid off.