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17 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

I am a former member of the Worldwide Church of God which doesn't exactly fit the description, Messianic Jewish, so Messianic Gentile, is the closest that I can guess at this time.  

I went far away from the WWCG on the question of Soul Sleep though so 1990 was truly a new beginning for me and I no longer fit in so easily in any church unless they take near death experience accounts seriously.... which is why the Latter day Saints have really caught my attention and they  are making me think that I might at least be able to attend regularly with them once I am closer to a local ward.  (I am an hour and a half drive away from the closest LDS ward right now).  

Are many who call themselves prophets; look at Paula Cole, Hinn, Copeland. Osteen. That type of thing scares me.

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7 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

Good points... .but I prayed and volunteered for something difficult thirty years ago and I feel a sense of responsibility to at least try my best to attempt to finish what I started...... but I depend totally on Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to make something of value out of the mess that I got myself into.  

Words used form reality. The Messiah Yeshua term I avoid. I only talk to Christ. The use of terms has become a landmine... to confuse souls.

Edited by e v e

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25 minutes ago, e v e said:

I get nervous if too many undefined unclear topics go at one time. From my understanding, though not all here agree, the thread is about the trinity and who are in the trinity, as a family. So I feel a bit uncomfortable to reply to other topics.

I am kind of strange.... .I got a prophecy from a gifted Christian many years ago that I had "the authority to destroy chaos." Her name was Ms. Edie Reno and she may have been a Latter day Saint because she also predicted back in 2012 that Mr. Mitt Romney had the "Mantle of Darius."  I thrive on attempting to make sense out of many topics all at the same time.  

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit, (very possibly YHWH the Mother)....   has invaded the earth since Acts chapter two and.....  The Holy Spirit is beginning to take over more and more and more and more so that those of us with the Holy Spirit rise up and up and up and up and become ready to meet our Messiah as this earth is being restored.... and as the promise for the Restoration of All Things is actually coming to pass as never ever before.  

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1 minute ago, e v e said:

Words used form reality. The Messiah Yeshua term I avoid. I only talk to Christ. The use of terms has become a landmine... to confuse souls.

Good point... but if people are not offended by my using the Hebrew spelling for the name of Jesus that is a feather in their cap!  

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6 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

I am kind of strange.... .I got a prophecy from a gifted Christian many years ago that I had "the authority to destroy chaos." Her name was Ms. Edie Reno and she may have been a Latter day Saint because she also predicted back in 2012 that Mr. Mitt Romney had the "Mantle of Darius."  I thrive on attempting to make sense out of many topics all at the same time.  

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit, (very possibly YHWH the Mother)....   has invaded the earth since Acts chapter two and.....  The Holy Spirit is beginning to take over more and more and more and more so that those of us with the Holy Spirit rise up and up and up and up and become ready to meet our Messiah as this earth is being restored.... and as the promise for the Restoration of All Things is actually coming to pass as never ever before.  

But chaos is coming to this world, and will not be destroyed. Scripture says this sky and earth is to be destroyed This earth is what will be destroyed. I would be careful with women preachers and predictions. 

 

About His Spirit...I don't know how to reply to what you said... 

4 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

Good point... but if people are not offended by my using the Hebrew spelling for the name of Jesus that is a feather in their cap!  

The hebrew would use vowels per josephus...such that hebrew being an oral language. the spelling then is ieue.  

Edited by e v e

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1 minute ago, e v e said:

But chaos is coming to this world, and will not be destroyed. Scripture says this sky and earth is to be destroyed This earth is what will be destroyed. I would be careful with women preachers and predictions. 

 

About His Spirit...I don't know how to reply to what you said... 

The hebrew would use vowels per josephus...such that hebrew being an oral language. the spelling then is ieue.  

I do believe that the Chaos that comes to this world soon will set the stage for the fulfillment of Zechariah 14

and Ezekiel 47....... and the metaphor for Ezekiel 47 is the Holy Spirit flowing out of the least of us humans so that the least Christian is 

comparable to John the Baptist... and the feeble Jew is like King David in his prime!

 

The whole creation groans waiting for the revelation of the sons and daughters of YHWH....... within and through both Jews and Gentiles.....

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7 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

I do believe that the Chaos that comes to this world soon will set the stage for the fulfillment of Zechariah 14

and Ezekiel 47....... and the metaphor for Ezekiel 47 is the Holy Spirit flowing out of the least of us humans so that the least Christian is 

comparable to John the Baptist... and the feeble Jew is like King David in his prime!

 

The whole creation groans waiting for the revelation of the sons and daughters of YHWH....... within and through both Jews and Gentiles.....

I can't relate to the language used 'jew' or gentile... to describe simply - His Souls...

So I'm a bit of a rabbit responding to you, hiding away in my rabbit hole.... I'm sorry.

 

The only souls in Eden were adamite, that meaning, from Adam. 

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7 minutes ago, e v e said:

I can't relate to the language used 'jew' or gentile... to describe simply - His Souls...

So I'm a bit of a rabbit responding to you, hiding away in my rabbit hole.... I'm sorry.

 

The only souls in Eden were adamite, that meaning, from Adam. 

True.....  but in the Book of Acts Cephas - Peter was sent to the Gentiles in Acts 10

but he chose to go mostly to his own people the Jews so......  soon Paul seems to have been given most of Cephas - Peter's calling to the Gentiles.  At least that is my impression of a major part of the dynamic of the New Testament the Christian Bible.  (It is interesting that Paul judged that Timothy, who had a Jewish mother.... should be circumcised... so that he could more effectively work with Messianic Jewish members of congregations that were perhaps mostly...... Messianic Gentile.  (First and second century believers in Messiah Yeshua Jesus as Messiah the Passover Lamb).... who were human..... and Jews and Gentiles had cultural differences that only the Holy Spirit could smooth over and heal.  

 

(Sid Roth from his book The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65)

The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to follow the Messiah, he had to convert to Judaism. Then Peter had a revelation that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be saved (see Acts 10). The Jerusalem Council meeting determined that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised. There were only four easily followed requirements. They were to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood (Acts 15:20). After all, James said, they could learn more about God by hear- ing the words of Moses every Saturday in the syna- gogue (see Acts 15:21). This opened the door to widespread church growth among the Gentiles. So many Gentiles were saved that the Jewish believers became a minority.

The first Jewish followers of Jesus were called Nazarenes (part of the Essenes sect of Judaism dis- cussed in Chapter 3). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000.1 In the Book of Acts, the early church fathers said to Paul: You see, brother, how many myriads [tens of thousands] of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law (Acts 21:20).

The Nazarenes acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochbas armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosophies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Christianity became increasingly anti-Jewish.

Edited by DennisTate
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9 minutes ago, DennisTate said:

True.....  but in the Book of Acts Cephas - Peter was sent to the Gentiles in Acts 10

but he chose to go mostly to his own people the Jews so......  soon Paul seems to have been given most of Cephas - Peter's calling to the Gentiles.  At least that is my impression of a major part of the dynamic of the New Testament the Christian Bible.  (It is interesting that Paul judged that Timothy, who had a Jewish mother.... should be circumcised... so that he could more effectively work with Messianic Jewish members of congregations that were perhaps mostly...... Messianic Gentile.  (First and second century believers in Messiah Yeshua Jesus as Messiah the Passover Lamb).... who were human..... and Jews and Gentiles had cultural differences that only the Holy Spirit could smooth over and heal.  

 

(Sid Roth from his book The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65)

I cannot read that sid roth.  I do not feel the words. It's but Esau's gibberish words.

 

Much of NT is a play out. That itself is an explanation left for another place. I can't comment on all that, it's not what i understand how you are assembling it. Paul's most important point is that we die to this world and all its needs and wants, die to the Self. 

Edited by e v e

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I wish you start your own thread on your topic of this... if you want. Because it's a lot and I can't relate to the phrasing or arranging of the words, much being speculation. And I don't how how to reply to you always, plus, it results in many posts, as if were pm's.

Edited by e v e

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I am not trying to be discouraging okay...but parts of what you said,  though maybe okay... are mixed together with an other context I cringe from...and that makes me unsure to comment back in a positive way, since I don't know the coloring of your words... meaning, I don't know what realm is speaking those words.

Edited by e v e

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10 hours ago, e v e said:

I understand adam betrayed God and the fall was very bad. 

I dont see where anyone betrayed God. I don't believe that is even possible. My understanding of that word is synonymous with backstab. Adam certainly didnt do that but one could make the argument that Eve betrayed Adam. She forced him into a situation where he had to disobey God regardless of the decision he made.

Now, this is off topic for this thread, but how is what Adam did bad?

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10 hours ago, e v e said:

This is my fault... when I talked to you on a thread the other day , i thought  your beliefs  to be messianic or lds mixed with messianic? So through my own fault I wasn’t clear about my reaction to those videos... that there are two realms and much of the near death stuff is not related to God’s realm. 

 

 

I would agree that NDE's cannot reveal much, if anything, about heaven. We can learn one thing that I believe is certain. The death of the body is not death or sleep of the person. There are other things such as the spirit world is all around us. Otherwise, it seems that many of the reports from people who have an NDE are not much different than things experienced while on an acid trip.

Edited by brotherofJared

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3 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

I dont see where anyone betrayed God. I don't believe that is even possible. My understanding of that word is synonymous with backstab. Adam certainly didnt do that but one could make the argument that Eve betrayed Adam. She forced him into a situation where he had to disobey God regardless of the decision he made.

Now, this is off topic for this thread, but how is what Adam did bad?

I'm not so worried to be off topic, other than, if it never returns to the topic. But sometimes, it feels many new topics get thrown in, and i would not have time to find the references, or reply well to it all without creating long posts..and then that would be very much off the topic..

The problem with the reply is that it probably is not an lds type of response and I don't know if I'd get in trouble, particularly because I would need to refer to texts that aren't of interest to anyone. If you can stand that for a bit, then I start to reply.

This is ad hoc, I'm just typing. So if there is a reference, I can find it. Next post I will reply. Also, I do feel sometimes somehow, there was no choice... I've to see how to phrase properly the situation , as I understand *so far*.

 

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This is a vedic version, as such, I've added my own comments, which may not make sense until I talk about the egyptian and Greek version and also the sumerian version.

The story has a meaning in scriptural context and also in other contexts but here I am not yet going into that. I will start with it here. Keeping in mind that this story predates Hinduism and would have happened in the other world, not this material earth.

There is a story in mahabharata, a vedic text. about how a deity, tricked eve (called pritha) to succumb to him. She of course remained a maiden. For some reason, she was left alone, far from her own family, to tend to this lord, and the lord had company. This company was a sun god, and he brought pritha a gift, a magic spell. If she used the spell she could summon some power (paraphrasing.) She was curious and but a girl and looked at the spell.... then, the same god returned, and told her now if she did not give a gift, that would be rude... and that, what he wanted was a son. she complained that her family would be upset, that was not done...and that, she needed to stay a maiden so she could marry...but the god assured her that not to worry, he would not blemish her and that she could still have a son. pritha was very confused, from being spelled by the gift previous, and so she agreed, and the god pierced her tummy with a ray. and then she hid from the family the son. the god, wanted a son from her, to steal from her the nature of her realm, eden, how I understood it, based on what happens next. she has the son and to hide him , sends him down the river in a basket of reeds, just as moses, and a family finds him. the boy grows to be a god, stronger than ALL the other gods, having the nature of the realm of the girl, not the foreign realm that tries to get a child from her. He grows and he is a brave youth, able to accomplish anything at all... a messenger of the gods come to him, because the gods, want his 'body', being his chestplate and his being, which they are most covetous of. The youth wanted to please the gods, having been separated all his life from his mother, and knowing only that realm and peoples who were foreign to his mother. He had no idea of his lineage being of Eden. He is concerned because if he gives his body to the messenger to give to agni (Lucifer) he will die, and have no covering and be left a helpless wretch... but, he decides to give up his body on the promise he will receive a replacement body. This happens, and the gods obtain the powers they wanted all along, by making the girl have the child such to later turn him to their purpose. This also reminds of the story of joseph working in Egypt... thus the youth is given a different body than his original one. So he betrays his own nature, but in the vedic version they downplay anything negative, because it serves the gods to obtain what they obtained by the youth, regardless of how this was done.  The story of course is untrustworthy to the extent that the is meaning is twisted to the vedic point of view , of that pantheon who benefitted from the theft of the original body of that youth, who while after was still godlike, was not of the powers of before, or had even realized who he was or what his situation was.

 

 

Edited by e v e

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sumerian version

Note that there are many other topics where parallels exist, but I am only focusing on the stories related to the fall, and the loss of the body. In this version, the sumerian god marduk attacks eden and steals the eden nature. Eden in those texts is referred to as tiamat. The texts tell that another God (of scripture) appeared in their midst, being viewed as a threat. marduk had been creating beings, but they were not that smart and not very pretty, more apelike. Those of marduk's realm were very afraid of eden, because, eden having a very high refresh rate not the slow gravity of matter (resulting in virtually no sense of time as we know it in terms of deterioration and death), was utterly lethal to them, just as would be lethal to use to have a monoxide atmosphere. However, afraid, they wanted those same powers, and asked marduk, "please give us bodies as those two", referring to the bodies of adam and eve, that were so powerful.  Marduk using a type of spear (a dimensional change of axis),  pierced tiamat, tand hus separating the atmosphere (male attribute) from the land (female).


Actually correction, the other God in their midst was related to marduk some how, who marduk (satan, lucifer) had a different idea of how to proceed, and rebelled. It's been a while since I read that and I forgot.

Edited by e v e

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I can tell greek and egyptian versions, and also rg-veda etc.. In every version, the originals of eden are captured in some way, to produce a different reality, using eden as its source to vampire from. I typed a bit so I will stop there for now.  All of this is in cliff note, so there is much left out.

Edited by e v e

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Some take these things to say well "the traditions all share the same events", and interpret them differently as I  do of course. But I have valid reason to interpret these negatively, given that the event is accomplished as a conquest, by force and deception, in those texts. It just depends on which side of the conquest the text is telling, for God, such as scripture, or against God, such as these texts where other gods vie for power and to steal from God.

Edited by e v e

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In all the versions, the watchers (fallen angels) invade eden to  steal attributes from Him, and control those attributes, though how i wrote it is a bit brief to completely make the point.  In plato, though this is not about the fall but after, the gods build their cities and heaven above eden, because her energies are such as to give immortality and beauty, the atmosphere itself... rg-vedas discuss the same, that the energies of eden they used to create soma of the gods. There are beings in the rg-veda, referred to as maruts, who are literally of golden like or some imperishable substance, having dressed themselves in the energies of eden, and for that reason, rg-veda says that the maruts are not interested in silver or gold (in the form of metals), being already in possession of such strength as to overcome any rival. The hieroglyphs describe the same, how the gods took lots to acquire the eden powers and dress themselves in them, and other things which are a bit gruesome to tell... but that, they literally waited for adamite souls to be born to acquire their bodies and nature. And, to create soma, their powers, how as in the mahabharata account, they literally cut off and cut up the eden body to distribute. For the originals captured, keeping them completely afraid of sinning and make them to forget. The glyphs say the same, that the originals will be made to forget and be apes instead...creatures instead of gods, and literally to be kept imprisoned, unaware of what's really going on.

Edited by e v e

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1 hour ago, brotherofJared said:

We don't. It's more of a mild curiosity.

I don't you don't like those themes I posted...

 I do have a question. What does the third hour represent to LDS ?  Being the title of the forums ?

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11 hours ago, DennisTate said:

I almost never remember a dream but I had one back in 2001 while I was in Ecuador that I can still recount.  Do you know if there is a special forum here where I could tell that dream to see if anybody here can make sense out of it?

I don’t know if there is. How long were you in Ecuador? I was in Venezuela for two years in 1979-80. 

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