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A little background here:
The classical "Trinity", as outlined by the Athanasian Creed, states that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God,.  They are one through a shared substance.
The LDS Christian view is a little different: the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God.  They are one through unity.   One truth, one goodness, one way, one glory, one family, etc.  
 
So yes, LDS Christians will agree that the Father and Son, and Spirit are a family, but it's a more complex family with as are all of us as the Father's children.  

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In the early church many understood His Spirit to be feminine...what I understand as well..

That Christ [Michael] is God, His spirit is God, and the son is Adam: He having fallen and descended from deity... becoming mortal.  Adam will lead all the sons soon back to heaven, as represent of all His souls (sons and daughters) - the 144k  - all of us going Home soon. 

I *think lds view the fall as positive. I view it as negative. 

The op though is about that you can see in those two our parents, a family Christ and his girl, and then His sons the 144k, male and female, in their image. It will be very pretty soon, mystery babylon being gone, and all His souls coming to Him to heaven. 

Edited by e v e

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Many that some would not expect will be in heaven... and we will have much to do, since the 144k, after they have their new body, will come to earth again to bring many millions more to Him.  

Edited by e v e

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46 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:
A little background here:
The classical "Trinity", as outlined by the Athanasian Creed, states that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God,.  They are one through a shared substance.
The LDS Christian view is a little different: the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God.  They are one through unity.   One truth, one goodness, one way, one glory, one family, etc.  
 
So yes, LDS Christians will agree that the Father and Son, and Spirit are a family, but it's a more complex family with as are all of us as the Father's children.  

I understand that the shared substance is Eden nature... His nature,

the nature of His realm ... and each of His Souls , being His,

can share that substance.

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11 minutes ago, e v e said:

I understand that the shared substance is Eden nature... His nature,

the nature of His realm ... and each of His Souls , being His,

can share that substance.

Yes, such is a belief in the Creeds.  .  LDS Christians to *not* believe this and find it to be a major error.

Edited by Jane_Doe

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24 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Yes, such is a belief in the Creeds.  .  LDS Christians to *not* believe this and find it to be a major error.

okay. Well, that is probably why the mainstream christians who I know in person, friends of mine by the way, still, didn't like my view, since it implies the 'nature' all around us in Eden, sky earth etc., is different than the nature 'here' (in Eden being immortal and glorified), and that our substance, as nepesh souls (hebrew), is of His realm, not this earth. I don't know that the creeds really understood this since they are based upon platonic concepts of sustance, which is not what I am talking about at all. Anyway, what matters to me is, that each of us, He said, "is in our image". And that image is what I am referring to as substance. I'm not telling this to change your ideas at all since I don't understand fully the lds views of anything. I'm just sharing what I understand 

Edited by e v e

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1 hour ago, e v e said:

1. In the early church many understood His Spirit to be feminine...what I understand as well..

2. That Christ [Michael] is God, His spirit is God, and the son is Adam: He having fallen and descended from deity... becoming mortal.  Adam will lead all the sons soon back to heaven, as represent of all His souls (sons and daughters) - the 144k  - all of us going Home soon. 

1. I suspect that there is a certain amount of validity to this. Within the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement we speak of the Spirit in ways that probably seem feminine. The Spirit comforts, brings peace, allows us to sense God's presence, fills us, etc. In many ways these could be seen as "mothering." Another aside is that we have a Korean-originated religious sect in our area--the World Mission Society Church of God. It teaches that the founding pastor was the return of Christ, and that his alleged wife is Mother God.

2. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Michael is Jesus, and that he was/is "a god," but not Jehovah--not GOD. They also teach that the 144K are Jehovah's chosen, amongst the Witnesses, who will reign with Jehovah in heaven, with the rest serving him on a reborn paradise-like earth.

The above is meant to show that other religious sects seem to share bits and pieces of what e v e is espousing.

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34 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

1. I suspect that there is a certain amount of validity to this. Within the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement we speak of the Spirit in ways that probably seem feminine. The Spirit comforts, brings peace, allows us to sense God's presence, fills us, etc. In many ways these could be seen as "mothering." Another aside is that we have a Korean-originated religious sect in our area--the World Mission Society Church of God. It teaches that the founding pastor was the return of Christ, and that his alleged wife is Mother God.

2. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Michael is Jesus, and that he was/is "a god," but not Jehovah--not GOD. They also teach that the 144K are Jehovah's chosen, amongst the Witnesses, who will reign with Jehovah in heaven, with the rest serving him on a reborn paradise-like earth.

The above is meant to show that other religious sects seem to share bits and pieces of what e v e is espousing.

Interesting.

I will reply to each, as you numbered ?

1. yes there is. honestly I don't know much about pentecostalism. My experiences with God did not involve tongues and were not in a group setting... rather, He gives visions or living dreams, where I am transported to Him and He shows me things, not all which I always understand fully, but I feel in my soul every word He pours into me. I've years of these memories with Him, though I've only shared one or two. I feel that these revelations are to teach me, and to comfort me, and to show me His realm.  I never heard of that type of that [korean] sect. Interesting. Well, many think immanuel in scripture refers to Michael - Christ...but it does not..that's a mistranslation...so I can see that there must be a lot of different versions out there and mostly I haven't studied any, since as academic my only interest was scripture and ancient texts. I did study up on the gnostics, starting for the first time about 3 weeks ago!, since I was told I was one recently, though after studying I don't believe so, not even slightly...at least not the way that it was defined to me. So mostly, I've studied church fathers, ancient philosophers, scripture, pagan texts to see what they say about the fall of Eden (which turns out to be A LOT, but in gloating terms within the enemy texts). I don't really follow or read up on modern denominations. I'm one of those who feels that though the reformation meant well, it continued Medieval mistakes. I have two close friends who are evangelicals and so I do know a bit about that. My one pentecostal friend and her brother, sort of went away...not liking the things I told them... I think it is a bit uncomfortable sometimes, to change. I told her for example, this friend, that when I visited her church I was disappointed women were running everything and men were shy to do a thing, having become passive. Perhaps it was just her congregation... but I was honest to her and said it made me feel a bit odd to see the women squabble and fight and run the whole place. I went with her there a few times, same with my evangelical friends. Whenever I visit them for a weekend, I go with them to their service. I don't belong to any denomination since i was 18 and left the religion I was raised in...so I only understand scripture from Him and from what I read in His words to us.

2. I don't know a thing about Jehovah Witness... or what they believe (and don't think I could spare time to go try to figure that out!) but once on a forum some who believe in JW were talking about the OT as if it was the dusty past...and well, I understand the prophets to be about now, they were prophets, not just recounting events of 500ad..but events in the other world, where eden fell, now. I think that idea of a jesus who is not God is a deimurge concept? I' don't know enough about what they think to say much.  As for the 144k, I understand them as the 144k sons and daughters, who were the originals of Eden who fell with adam, and who will go Home first, at the Change, being the originals, and who afterwards will return to this current earth for His millions of souls and help them come to God, Just as He came here at 0ad and (is coming here soon) for his 144k.

When I studied, recent, because of the gnostic label directed at me, about the so called gnostics, what I learned was how that label was used to establish canon, and that in fact many early christians were wrongly called that..but that being a way to consolidate everyone under one Medieval view, regardless of whether it be true. These are human decisions that affected christianity for centuries, and have steered us to the modern forms of christianity. There are certainly many versions.

Edited by e v e

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That's so interesting that the Pentecostals would have some feeling for His Spirit as feminine. But perhaps not all pentecostals... my pentecostal friend never said anything like that?

 

it is so incredibly gorgeous that Christ, God Himself, and our Comforter, she, came here for us to rescue and comfort us from this horrible earth.

Edited by e v e

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2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:
A little background here:
The classical "Trinity", as outlined by the Athanasian Creed, states that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God,.  They are one through a shared substance.
The LDS Christian view is a little different: the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different persons in 1 God.  They are one through unity.   One truth, one goodness, one way, one glory, one family, etc.  
 
So yes, LDS Christians will agree that the Father and Son, and Spirit are a family, but it's a more complex family with as are all of us as the Father's children.  

yes, and, the medievals left out the sons and daughters, considering us but animal creatures and not His actual sons and daughters, in reality..the birthright of His Souls being a nature,  and a family lineage, in Heaven herself!

Edited by e v e

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I think the hatred of female as being the source of all evil and of souls being but animal creatures was really intense in Augustine and Aquinas, who got that because of their pagan viewpoint.  I am happy to have been able to show cites and break that down for the college students I taught... they themselves having to research and see the pagan connections and the false christianity that was established especially by Augustine...on their own by reading for themselves and seeing that it is true, that christianity got so very polluted in the medieval period by so many pagan points of view. Most modern christianity is still to some extent, I believe, very much affected and harmed by Augustine, who though I don't claim he did it on purpose, was affected by his previous beliefs and spread those errors into the canons. I have read all of Augustine and not everything he said was bad... but he certainly had a pagan overlay that is hard to miss.

Edited by e v e

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17 minutes ago, e v e said:

That's so interesting that the Pentecostals would have some feeling for His Spirit as feminine. But perhaps not all pentecostals... my pentecostal friend never said anything like that?

I doubt many would call the Spirit feminine or female. However, it is true that the characteristics manifested by the Spirit, as we describe, could be considered as largely feminine. I suspect that most Christian thinkers (including Catholics) would be very cautious about assigning God strong gender one way or the other. After all, God is spirit to us. That God is called Father probably speaks mostly to his role and actions.

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7 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I doubt many would call the Spirit feminine or female. However, it is true that the characteristics manifested by the Spirit, as we describe, could be considered as largely feminine. I suspect that most Christian thinkers (including Catholics) would be very cautious about assigning God strong gender one way or the other. After all, God is spirit to us. That God is called Father probably speaks mostly to his role and actions.

Interesting. I will say this, and I say it carefully, that I met Him and also She and they have a bodies, though not what we have here, since they have most gorgeous bodies which do not die and are literally the most beautiful beings in all of Heaven.  Though yes, She appeared as pillar to moses and sometimes in dreams He has come to me as a hand made of a cloud, where I rested in his hand, hearing scripture (His words). So, I would not imagine that their bodies are a fixed thing such as our mortal ones, since I remember that when He was on this earth He disappeared and appeared after resurrection and could walk on water, even before the cross. So I have no problem with that He and She could be invisible...just as I have no problem that by their will they have bodies. When I met Him, I could not see His face, and never have... but I know he has a body, for I saw and touched His feet and sat in his lap, and I saw His gorgeous hair, and her beautiful hair too... so... that's what I must believe, since I saw the same.

Edited by e v e

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I don't intend to say that somehow I understand better than His sons do, not at all. For never did He attempt theology with me, though He did show me, take me to the past, when some events of scripture were happening, some events of scripture. But did I always understand what I saw? No... sometimes now, I begin to understand here and there...but I don't really understand much... Mostly, I was so very comforted and I did see enough to understand a tiny bit here and there. After a few of those experiences, I began to change my curriculum and I began to read scripture with more effort, because suddenly, I realized I had not really read scripture herself since I was a child, and all my teaching had been of ancient pagan, the Greeks etc. But once I met them (God), then I started to study everything medieval and scripture cover to cover. And then I did shift to teaching all my students christianity. That was years ago... and for many years I taught the students about Him. Once a student at the end of semester came crying to me. I don't know what religion he was actually. But he cried, and thanked me and said he had been going into a dead end, but now he was determined to be Christian, for real this time, and not just on sundays or because His family wished it for him. One final point, one reason Young's Adam view got my attention, is because it seemed to go with the things I saw, at least part of what he talked about. Though, as I said, I don't understand very much.

Edited by e v e

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16 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I doubt many would call the Spirit feminine or female. However, it is true that the characteristics manifested by the Spirit, as we describe, could be considered as largely feminine. I suspect that most Christian thinkers (including Catholics) would be very cautious about assigning God strong gender one way or the other. After all, God is spirit to us. That God is called Father probably speaks mostly to his role and actions.

Even if I don't phrase perfect yet :), the main thing of the op is, that the trinity includes and is His House, His family, and all His sons and daughters. What do you think of that view of the trinity?

Edited by e v e

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2 hours ago, e v e said:

In the early church many understood His Spirit to be feminine...what I understand as well

As I understand it, his spirit and the Holy spirit are not the same thing. Spirit is both genders in hebrew, neuter in Greek and masculine in Latin.  But that is the nature of the word, not necessarily descriptive of the person.  Wisdom is also a feminine word. And has been identified by some as being another name for the Holy Spirit. Margaret Barker is one who makes this observation. I dont believe we know what the early Christian's understood it to mean. I would not go do far as o say that The Father and the Holy Spirit are the parents of Christ (thus making the nucleus  of a family.

I believe we.see.them all.as members of the same family; a family of which we are also members.

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19 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

As I understand it, his spirit and the Holy spirit are not the same thing. Spirit is both genders in hebrew, neuter in Greek and masculine in Latin.  But that is the nature of the word, not necessarily descriptive of the person.  Wisdom is also a feminine word. And has been identified by some as being another name for the Holy Spirit. Margaret Barker is one who makes this observation. I don't believe we know what the early Christian's understood it to mean. I would not go do far as to say that The Father and the Holy Spirit are the parents of Christ (thus making the nucleus  of a family.)

I believe we.see.them all.as members of the same family; a family of which we are also members.

Yes...

 

For me, Christ and She (mother of all His souls) are God...that's all I know, and to listen to and obey them. To stay with them every minute... is my desire. So I can't comment on the last sentence, because I would need to ask Him. Grin. He and She are my core family...and all the sons and daughters. the 144k. I don't have any other experience but that.

Edited by e v e
typos all over the place. :)

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15 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

As I understand it, his spirit and the Holy spirit are not the same thing. Spirit is both genders in hebrew, neuter in Greek and masculine in Latin.  But that is the nature of the word, not necessarily descriptive of the person.  Wisdom is also a feminine word. And has been identified by some as being another name for the Holy Spirit. Margaret Barker is one who makes this observation. I dont believe we know what the early Christian's understood it to mean. I would not go do far as o say that The Father and the Holy Spirit are the parents of Christ (thus making the nucleus  of a family.

I believe we.see.them all.as members of the same family; a family of which we are also members.

Your first sentence would be a topic for sometime.  :) Because He does have two attributes.

I do think that She is mother..and that She is His Spirit. That doesn't meant she does not have a most gorgeous heavenly body.

Edited by e v e

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4 hours ago, e v e said:

The trinity = the family. 

Any thoughts? 

That which is in heaven is reflected by that which is on Earth. Though parenting children is a vital sort of priesthood leadership, it is not representative of the Godhead. Look instead to the leadership councils of the Church of Christ for the correct reflection of the Godhead's members and functions: The president, his first councillor, and 2nd councillor. To use mainstream biblical terms, the godhead is like Peter, James, and John who lead and governed church affairs.

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2 minutes ago, Moonbeast32 said:

That which is in heaven is reflected by that which is on Earth. Though parenting children is a vital sort of priesthood leadership, it is not representative of the Godhead. Look instead to the leadership councils of the Church of Christ for the correct reflection of the Godhead's members and functions: The president, his first councillor, and 2nd councillor. To use mainstream biblical terms, the godhead is like Peter, James, and John who lead and governed church affairs.

Is not God the correct authority for souls? How is church of christ related to what the op is?

Edited by e v e

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1 minute ago, Moonbeast32 said:

I'm not really sure what that has to do with what I wrote...

Well you were giving councillors as examples of mentors..but they aren't God..so I didn't get how that related to trinity, the op.

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