bert10 Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 The answers are in the bible only many Chrisitans are blinded by creeds and so they do not see....Not only LDS beleive in three heavens...Paul also said He went to the third heaven.2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. Hell is torments....and when our conscience is exposed to the pure light of Christ it is as though we are thrown in a lake of fire and brimstones. Jesus silence the devil before he revealed to much from the other side....Matthew 8:29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us....so where do you think hell is?Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.We have been given the powers here on the earth to bring heaven down on the earth or raise hell on it. Which do you think men did?The children of the kingdom shall be cast out in the Outer darkness.Matthew 8:12 - But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.The outer darkness is terrible for the light/love of Christ is not.Wandering stars...Jude 1:13 - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. If the fear of a lake of fire and brimstones works best for you.....then it is better for you to keep it.For example...When Paul the Pharisee was exposed to the Light of Christ.....He immediately became blind and sick with fever unto death. So much was his spirit in torment and wanted to leave his body....That his own body was burning up....Imagine what type of Spiritual suffering can cause this. Paul was only saved when the Lord sent apostles to forgive him and heal him.Hell is torments akin to being thrown bodily into a lake of fire and brimstones. Whether this exist or not it does not matter for the suffering is such as it would be the same.I hope this helps.Peace be unto youbert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert10 Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 The answers are in the bible only many Chrisitans are blinded by creeds and so they do not see....Not only LDS beleive in three heavens...Paul also said He went to the third heaven.2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. Hell is torments....and when our conscience is exposed to the pure light of Christ it is as though we are thrown in a lake of fire and brimstones. Jesus silence the devil before he revealed to much from the other side....Matthew 8:29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us....so where do you think hell is?Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.We have been given the powers here on the earth to bring heaven down on the earth or raise hell on it. Which do you think men did?The children of the kingdom shall be cast out in the Outer darkness.Matthew 8:12 - But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.The outer darkness is terrible for the light/love of Christ is not.Wandering stars...Jude 1:13 - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. If the fear of a lake of fire and brimstones works best for you.....then it is better for you to keep it.For example...When Paul the Pharisian was exposed to the Light of Christ.....He immediately became blind and sick with fever unto death. So much was his spirit in torment and wanted to leave his body....That his own body was burning up....Imagine what type of Spiritual suffering can cause this. Paul was only saved when the Lord sent apostles to forgive him and heal him.Hell is torments akin to being thrown bodily into a lake of fire and brimstones. Whether this exist or not it does not matter for the suffering is such as it would be the same.I hope this helps.Peace be unto youbert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LdsNana Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 The answers are in the bible only many Chrisitans are blinded by creeds and so they do not see....Not only LDS beleive in three heavens...Paul also said He went to the third heaven.2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. Hell is torments....and when our conscience is exposed to the pure light of Christ it is as though we are thrown in a lake of fire and brimstones. Jesus silence the devil before he revealed to much from the other side....Matthew 8:29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us....so where do you think hell is?Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.We have been given the powers here on the earth to bring heaven down on the earth or raise hell on it. Which do you think men did?The children of the kingdom shall be cast out in the Outer darkness.Matthew 8:12 - But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.The outer darkness is terrible for the light/love of Christ is not.Wandering stars...Jude 1:13 - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. If the fear of a lake of fire and brimstones works best for you.....then it is better for you to keep it.For example...When Paul the Pharisian was exposed to the Light of Christ.....He immediately became blind and sick with fever unto death. So much was his spirit in torment and wanted to leave his body....That his own body was burning up....Imagine what type of Spiritual suffering can cause this. Paul was only saved when the Lord sent apostles to forgive him and heal him.Hell is torments akin to being thrown bodily into a lake of fire and brimstones. Whether this exist or not it does not matter for the suffering is such as it would be the same.I hope this helps.Peace be unto youbert10Very nice work Bert. Welcome to the forum. You are a carnivore I presume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still_Small_Voice Posted December 2, 2007 Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 If the fear of a lake of fire and brimstones works best for you.....then it is better for you to keep it.For example... When Paul the Pharisee was exposed to the Light of Christ... He immediately became blind and sick with fever unto death. So much was his spirit in torment and wanted to leave his body... That his own body was burning up... Imagine what type of Spiritual suffering can cause this. Paul was only saved when the Lord sent apostles to forgive him and heal him.Hell is torments akin to being thrown bodily into a lake of fire and brimstones. Whether this exist or not it does not matter for the suffering is such as it would be the same.I hope this helps.Contrast Saul the Pharisee with the Apostle Paul.Acts chapter 2310 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle. 11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert10 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Very nice work Bert. Welcome to the forum. You are a carnivore I presume?Less than I used to be.PEace be unto youbert10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LdsNana Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Less than I used to be.PEace be unto youbert10Oh my, it sounds as though we both have recently changed restaurants... and definitely for the better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francine Posted January 29, 2008 Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 Not only LDS beleive in three heavens...Paul also said He went to the third heaven.There is no record in the Scriptures that Paul of Tarsus was married in the temple, or that he was ever married. If this is the case, does that mean we may expect to find the Apostle to the Gentiles consigned to the Terrestrial Kingdom in the life to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Many scholars believe that Paul was probably a widower. As it is, there are several "interesting" early Christian sites that are very suggestive of temples. In Ephesus is a Pauline church that has two sides to it. Both has its own entrance, and both had benches and a baptismal font. It is maintained by Greek Orthodox priests, who will explain that one side is for all people to attend, the other solely for members. What is a font doing in a members-only room? It was used for baptisms for the dead, which is still a doctrine in the Greek Orthodox Church, but isn't practiced or discussed much. In the early Christian document, the Gospel of Phillip, Phillip discusses the temple and explains that within the Holy of Holies (the Holiest Place) is the marriage chamber. You can easily extrapolate modern LDS teaching from Phillip's emphasis (he says it several times in his epistle). As for Paul and others being sealed. Given we have 100 years of Christianity "detailed" in just a few hundred pages, and most of that is on Jesus' life or Paul's letters of counsel. So, there really isn't a historical basis to say that Paul was/wasn't married or sealed. There isn't enough information to strongly speculate it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebky Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 I don't know how to use the quotes like you are all doing... but I just wanted to say to Bert, thank you for posting this: "Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within us....so where do you think hell is? Luke 17:21 - Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." We were discussing as a family the absurdity of 'working on your exaltation' Imagine President Hinkley ever marching out the door thinking to himself "I'm going to work on my exaltation today!" My 9 year old daughter asked what Exaltation means... so I also liked your sentence in that post: 'we have the power to make a heaven on earth, or raise the hell that is already here.' Exaltation is a process of becoming so aligned with God that you can make the transition from Him dwelling 'in' you here.... to you dwelling 'with' Him there . It's not absurd to do the work THAT gets you there... it's absurd to do those things SO you get there. It's missing the point entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Rebky, I fully agree with your thoughts on this. Elder Oaks gave a great conference talk a few years ago on "Becoming." We don't just run down a checklist of things to accomplish. That's what the Jews tried to do in Jesus' day. We must become like Christ, in order to dwell with confidence in His presence someday. Otherwise, we will find ourselves like those who wished to have the rocks fall on them to escape His presence (Alma 12), or that would be more miserable in God's presence than with the miserable souls in hell (Mormon 9:1-4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebky Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Yes, and that is why where we end up will be where we are most comfortable. Pure justice. No one will debate it. Thank you for reminding me of the talk on becoming. I'll use that in follow up discussion with my family. I remember using that for a class once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Has anyone considered in their quest for their desired Kingdom, that the preponderance of Thai, Indian, Italian and French chefs will be in the Terrestrial Kingdom?Just a thought... (but where will the lawyers and telemarketers end up?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebky Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I have to look up the word preponderance first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Has anyone considered in their quest for their desired Kingdom, that the preponderance of Thai, Indian, Italian and French chefs will be in the Terrestrial Kingdom?Just a thought... (but where will the lawyers and telemarketers end up?)Well, D&C 76 states that those from higher kingdoms will be able to go down to those in the lower kingdoms. So, perhaps while we're visiting less-valiant relatives in the lower kingdoms, we can stop for a bite to eat....And I personally believe there is a heaven set aside especially for trial lawyers, though I've not found the scriptural connection, just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I believe that everyone will end up in the place they really really want to live eternally. I do not believe that G-d will deny heaven for someone that would rather be there than any where else. I also do not believe there is a hell that a loveing G-d would damn anyone to if they did not perfer that place over heaven. I also believe that many so called Christians will, once they see heaven will be saddened by it and desire a place more suited to their wants and desires. Many feel we should all find a "church" that suits us. I am quite sure that such reflections on G-d and such will roll over with us in eternity. One last point. Most seem to think heaven and salvation is all about them - Them being saved - Them being forgiven, Them not having to suffer, Them getting what them wants for free or other wise - in other words a ME ME ME ME ME and what I get for ME ME ME. I think such have missed the most important part of what it means to be a Christian. If you think you are a Christian or LDS or whatever and you think salvation is about you being born again and you being saved - you do not understand. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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