Book of Mormon Reading Group: 02 Oct - 08 Oct 2023 (2 Nephi 29 - Omni 1)

[zil2]

Please see the Book of Mormon Reading Group thread for details (and discussion of 1 Nephi 1 - 5).  Our goal is to read the Book of Mormon by the end of the year.  I'll make a new post before each Monday so that it's ready to go - weeks go from Monday to Sunday for our purposes.

This week's schedule:

Oct 2	2 Nephi 31	Monday
Oct 3	Jacob 1	Tuesday
Oct 4	Jacob 3	Wednesday
Oct 5	Jacob 5	Thursday
Oct 6	Jacob 5	Friday
Oct 7	Enos 1	Saturday
Oct 8	Omni 1	Sunday

 

Last Week: Book of Mormon Reading Group: 25 Sep - 01 Oct 2023 (2 Nephi 10 - 2 Nephi 28)

Thread Index

Edited September 30, 2023 by zil2

[zil2]

2 Nephi 29

This chapter is very popular with the rest of Christianity.

v12-13: I expect that we'll have to wait until the Millennium (almost) to learn what was said to the lost tribes of Israel. (Seems clear to me from 3 Nephi 15:11 to 16:3 that some portion of the other tribes were still together around the time of the Lord's resurrection and that he visited them.)  Of course, except for history and stories, it will teach the same things, I expect.

2 Nephi 30

Repent and believe in Christ.

v10: Sure feels to me like the division is happening.

v11+ Good stuff inbound.

v14: Nice cockatrice:

 

2 Nephi 31

v7: Maybe the point of your trial or assignment, or of a commandment, is to help you be humble and demonstrate obedience.

v9: Sometimes the point is to show the way.

v10: Follow Christ.

v11: Did I mention repent?

v13: This is the way.

v19-20: Don't underestimate your own faith.  Keep going.

[zil2]

2 Nephi 32

v2-3: Don't underestimate the importance and power of the Holy Ghost!

v4: Very interesting wording here, that one must be brought into the light.  Consistent with the importance of the Holy Ghost.  There's some temple imagery here.

v3 & 5: "...the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do." and "...the Holy Ghost... will show unto you all things what ye should do."  I believe that at times I have thought of this (and heard others talk of this) in reverse.  It's easy to read this and think that the scriptures and Holy Ghost will help you resolve every decision you ever have to make - should I wear the green shirt or the blue shirt?  While I suppose technically, if it had some eternal significance, the Holy Ghost could indeed tell you which shirt you should wear, I don't think that's what these verses (and so many others like them) are saying.  Rather, I think they're saying that there's an eternal set of things we all should do, and the Holy Ghost and scriptures will teach us what they are.  That "set" would include things like having faith in Christ, repenting, being baptized, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.  That set includes the teachings of Christ as recorded in scripture, and his example.  Etc.  These are the things we should do.

NOTE: This doesn't mean I don't believe the Holy Ghost knows all things - the Spirit once helped me to solve a "blue screen of death" problem, after all.  I just don't think that "all things what ye should do" necessarily means "all choices you have to make".

v8-9: Pray, even if you don't want to, don't feel worthy, can't think of what to pray, just pray.

v9: is really interesting to me.  I don't really think I was taught to do this growing up.  I'm sure I knew this verse, but the whole idea of this verse is not something I was taught to do, say, before a talk or a lesson or attending the temple, or typing this message, or whatever.  Pray for help, guidance, etc. - yes, but there's a lot more here, IMO.  We could probably spend a whole thread unpacking this verse.

2 Nephi 33

v2: Don't harden your heart!  Let the Spirit teach you.

Have charity.  Believe in and follow Christ.

Jacob 1

Encourage others to believe in Christ.  Beware of pride.

v17: Don't jump the gun - "obtain your errand from the Lord".

[zil2]

Jacob 2

In scripture, it's easy to see the relevance of prophetic teachings because the history of the people is summarized.  But in our day, when the teachings of prophets are broadcast worldwide to millions of people, it can be easy to think they apply to someone else, or easy to think it's just generic and not specific to any particular problem today, or hard to know why a particular message is coming now.  All the more reason to do as Nephi so often told Laman and Lemuel - ask God - even if you think you understand, ask God to help you understand more.

v6-9: How sad that we've reached a point where no one bats an eye when sexual sins are discussed.  Or at least, folks don't seem to be as disturbed by the need as Jacob is...

v17: A hard teaching for many of us.  "Think of your brethren like unto yourselves..." You could take that to mean you should consider all equal, no one better than anyone else, etc.  Or you could take it as: "Look at that person.  Imagine that's you.  Now figure out how to treat them."  This verse also suggests that by being "familiar with all and free with your substance" all would be rich.  How many of us dare to try that experiment?

Be humble. Be generous. Seek the kingdom of God and hope in Christ.

v23: One can twist the scriptures to justify sin.  Don't be one.

v24-30: A lot of people claim foul when they read this and consider polygamy in Church history.  Verse 30 and the footnotes for v24 resolve the apparent conflict.

Jacob 3

v1: Even the pure in heart need to continue in faith and prayer, and go through trials and need consolation at times.

v2: The word of God should be pleasing to you.

Repent and worry about your own sins rather than condemning others.

[zil2]

Jacob 4

v1-3: Family history, Nephite-style.

v4-5: I don't think the rest of Christianity believe that every prophet knew of Christ and worshiped God in his name.  (I could be wrong - the Old Testament is full of things modern Christians recognize as prophesying of Christ - but that's my impression.)

v6: Scriptural witness - the testimony of prophets - of Christ should give one hope and strengthen faith.

v7: The proper reaction when "shown your weakness" is to be humble and acknowledge God's grace.

v8: If you want to understand the ways of God, you must seek revelation.  My mind keeps recalling Nephi's choice regarding the vision of the Tree of Life - he believed his father, understood what his father taught, likely felt the witness of the Holy Ghost, but wasn't satisfied with that alone.  He went to ask for a deeper understanding and to learn personally from God.  How often are we satisfied with the Holy Ghost's witness that what we hear is true and never seek for anything more, direct from God?

v9-10: When you understand the power, knowledge, and wisdom of God, you should be anxious to learn from him.

v13-14: Be glad for plain and simple truths.  Don't go looking for the incomprehensible, lest you fall.

njhhhhhhhhjhjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj <-- So saith Klaw.

Jacob 5

v3: It seems all through history, the Lord's covenant people in each dispensation first grow (learn, bring in converts, etc.), then get old (become comfortable in the faith and slack off?), and then begin to go astray (decay). Don't follow this pattern personally. Endure to the end.

v4-5: Despite our weakness, the Lord does all he can to bring us back to him.

v6: It seems once the decay has started, the well-established don't respond much the Lord's efforts.  Be one who responds.

v7: So new converts are needed - or perhaps someone to stir them up in remembrance...  Give up on bringing forth fruit (aka wither) and you risk being "cast into the fire"!

v8: Sometimes the Lord uses those who are "young and tender" to build his kingdom.  Whether you're one of them, or whether you're the old fogey they've been called to preside over (for example), be humble and have faith that God knows what he's doing.

v10: Don't go griping at the servants of the Lord when they take drastic measures.

v13-14: If the Lord sends you to the "nethermost" part of his vineyard, don't fret; go to work making fruit.

I will pick up at v15 tomorrow.

[Jamie123]

Chapter 5 is one ripsnorter of a chapter. It's like Luke 13:6-9 "on acid"!

I read the whole thing once, but I'm going to need to go through it again a few times!

[Jamie123]

21 hours ago, zil2 said:

Repent and worry about your own sins rather than condemning others.

Like the mote and the beam!

[zil2]

Jacob 5 (continued)

(NOTE: I know that this allegory talks about scattering various groups of Israel, taking the gospel to the wild gentiles, and gathering Israel again, with some obvious references to the Nephites and Lamanites and the Jaredites (about whom Jamie has yet to read - their story is in the book of Ether).  But I'm also looking for other lessons and thoughts that I can apply to myself.)

v15: seems to suggest that sometimes the Lord lets us work things our for ourselves for a time, but always comes back now and then to check on our progress.  Yes, I believe that God is always aware of us, but I do think he expects us to be "anxiously engaged" and do what we know is right without needing him hovering over our shoulder, so to speak.

v17: Welcome the "wild" converts. They'll get the hang of it eventually.

v21-22+: If you're the servant, remember that the Lord knows what he's doing.   Also, with God's help, it's possible to flourish, even in "the poorest spot".

v47: We can't blame the Lord when groups or individuals "go bad".  He is always working for our good.

v48: Sometimes makes me think not only of pride (as the footnotes suggest), but of people in the Church trying to usurp or assume authority they don't have - speaking or teaching their own ideas as if they were right and what Church leaders teach is false.

v50: Sometimes I think the "servant" in this story represents the prophets and such, sometimes I think he represents Jesus Christ...

v52+: The gathering of Israel.

v54: "I will graft in unto them the branches of their mother tree, that I may preserve the roots also..." sure reads like the "welding link" that the roots (ancestors) cannot be saved without the branches (descendants) and vice versa.

v75: Doing the work of the Lord brings blessings.

The lessons could be even more personal - don't be surprised if the Lord clips away bits of you, digs up the ground around you, or dumps dung on you.   All these things will be for your experience and will do you good...

[Jamie123]

2 hours ago, zil2 said:

sometimes I think he represents Jesus Christ...

Of course, I only previously knew of the short version in Luke 13, but I always saw the servant as Jesus.

[askandanswer]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:23 AM, Jamie123 said:

Chapter 5 is one ripsnorter of a chapter. It's like Luke 13:6-9 "on acid"!

I read the whole thing once, but I'm going to need to go through it again a few times!

Nice comparison. I'm familiar with both sets of verses, but I've never compared them so directly in the way that your post prompted me to just now.

[zil2]

I wish to say to any who are lurking that this exercise has already been a blessing for me.  It has required some sacrifice of time, but reading at this speed, and with a group - particularly with someone not of our Church - has helped me to see things in ways I haven't before, and might never have otherwise.  If you've been waffling over whether to join us, I encourage you to try as you are able so that you might also receive blessings.

[zil2]

@Jamie123, it occurs to me that we'll finish the "small plates" portion of the Book of Mormon this week, and I thought now would be a good time to ask whether this project is working for you - are you accomplishing what you hoped?  Do we need to change anything about our approach?  Or...?  I can go faster (but probably not take and post the notes I am).  I can certainly go slower.  Whatever works for you.

[Jamie123]

28 minutes ago, zil2 said:

@Jamie123, it occurs to me that we'll finish the "small plates" portion of the Book of Mormon this week, and I thought now would be a good time to ask whether this project is working for you - are you accomplishing what you hoped?  Do we need to change anything about our approach?  Or...?  I can go faster (but probably not take and post the notes I am).  I can certainly go slower.  Whatever works for you.

It's worked very well for me so far! I really appreciate the effort you have taken over this. It has changed my perception of the Book of Mormon - especially now we are getting beyond the parts I have read before. Maybe (assuming it's it's fine with everyone else) we continue with the current formula? 

[zil2]

25 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

It's worked very well for me so far! I really appreciate the effort you have taken over this. It has changed my perception of the Book of Mormon - especially now we are getting beyond the parts I have read before. Maybe (assuming it's it's fine with everyone else) we continue with the current formula? 

Good!  I'm very glad.  And happy to continue as we have been.  I just wanted to check in to make sure our reading schedule hadn't become a to-do list that overshadowed your original intent. Glad it hasn't!  Perhaps others will find the time to join in now that we're past Jacob 5.

[zil2]

Jacob 6

v3: Those who do the Lord's work are blessed.

v4-5: God will not forget you.  Don't harden your heart, return to him.

v11: One day I had a realization about narrow ways.  A narrow way between two cliffs (a chimney) allows you to climb to the top.  The Lord's way is narrow to help us "climb up".  A wide way would be much harder to climb.

I suppose Jacob didn't intend to write more, based on the ending of this chapter.  This suggests that he thought the events of chapter 7 rather important.

Jacob 7

v5-7: If Satan can't shake your faith, he'll work to keep you from making progress in it.  @Jamie123, this is particularly relevant to Latter-day Saints because we believe in continuing revelation.  But sometimes changes (even just policy changes) upset members - sometimes a lot.

v7, 9: Logic error: If no one can know the future, then Sherem can't know whether there will be a Christ, thus, saying there won't be violates his own assertion.

v8: Don't try to confound with your own wisdom. Rely on the Lord.

v24: Love your enemy, etc.

Enos

v1: Like Nephi, Enos considers that good parents are those who teach their children.

v3: Remember and ponder on the things you've been taught.

v4: That's some serious prayer.  I've never managed to come close to it...

v6: Serious trusting in the Lord.

v8: "...wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole." It's up to Enos to take initiative if he wants to continue or renew the exchange.  It can be easy to think, "OK, that's done." when really, the Lord is willing to give us more, if we seek it - but we have to seek it.

v11: Keep working at it until your faith is unshaken.

v15: One of the secrets of prayer: can you ask for it in the name of Christ believing that it's something Christ would ask for?

v18: The wording of this verse is beyond interesting to me.

v19+: Once your faith is sufficient, you will share it with others.

v20: Don't devolve.  v22+: Don't be stiffnecked. v26: Rejoice in Christ.

[Jamie123]

51 minutes ago, zil2 said:

v7, 9: Logic error: If no one can know the future, then Sherem can't know whether there will be a Christ, thus, saying there won't be violates his own assertion.

Very perceptive! He claims no one can know the future, and then claims that HE does! The Book of Mormon app (which I've found very useful) has a link to a dramatisation of this story.

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, zil2 said:

v19+: Once your faith is sufficient, you will share it with others.

This reminds me of a book I once read by Rebecca Manley. Her thesis is that evangelism isn't something you *have* to do - it's something you *will* do naturally when you are ready. When a person comes to Christ they go from being worldly to being unworldly, but later (if they are faithful) they will develop a new kind of worldliness and will connect and share their faith with other worldly people.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Jamie123

[zil2]

17 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

The Book of Mormon app (which I've found very useful) has a link to a dramatisation of this story.

Yes, there are quite a few Book of Mormon videos.

Edited October 7, 2023 by zil2

[zil2]

Sorry, almost forgot next week's thread.  Hopefully @askandanswer isn't twiddling his thumbs this early waiting for it...   Here it is:

 

[zil2]

Jarom

v2: "For what could I write more than my fathers have written? For have not they revealed the plan of salvation? I say unto you, Yea; and this sufficeth me." As Paul wrote about the Athenians - sometimes we're always wanting something new, but God's plan for us is fairly simple, so what more do we need?

v3: And anyway, we can't seem to get it through our thick heads, so, repetition required...    (If the best that can be said for you is that God has not yet swept you off the face of the land, some improvement might be worth considering...)

v11: Not just teaching the law, but also the intent for which it is given.  I sometimes think that in my youth, we were taught the law, but not always its intent.  Those of us who lead or teach need to make sure we remember the intent - that all things are to lead us to Christ.

v14: "Dear Lord, Jarom said I could go to the other plates of Nephi, so, um.....?"

Omni

Lots of un-detailed violence in the lives of the people.  

v5-6: Don't let your "more wicked part" win.  Feed your more righteous part.

v12+: Covers a ton of history - Someone named Mosiah (not "Nephi the Umpteenth" as Jacob said the kings were called initially, so that appears to have changed) is now king; the Nephites are forced to flee again from the Lamanites (remember, Nephi himself, and his people, had fled from Laman and Lemuel).  So Mosiah leads his people away and trips over Zarahemla (city and leader's name) where the Mulekites (people of Mulek, the son of the Jewish king Zedekiah, who had also fled from Jerusalem - the only son of Zedekiah to survive the Babylonian invasion) live.

v12-13: When the Lord tells you to leave, whether it's to get away from a dangerous place, or to go toward someone who needs you, go.  Even if you have to travel through the wilderness (aka chaos / confusion / uncertainty) to get to your destination.

v14: Be glad that you have God's word (scripture).

v20+: In addition to telling us about the Mulekites, we also get our first hint of the Jaredites (see the book of Ether) - the first people, as far as we know, that the Lord brought to this land (after Noah's flood).

v24: Despite fleeing, the Lamanites just can't leave them alone - there is no "live and let live" with the wicked.

v25: It's interesting to me that in addition to testifying of Christ, Amaleki testifies to the gifts of the Spirit.

v26: "offer your whole souls" - beautiful, but hard to do.

v27: Oh, and by the way, yet another group split off - these went back determined to take back the land King Mosiah (the first) had fled (see v12+) - the people of Zeniff that we'll read about in Mosiah 9 - 22. (Lots of groups coming up, @Jamie123 - it can be hard to keep track of who's who - lots of people using same names, too.)

v30: "I am about to lie down in my grave" - there's a visual for you!

 

[askandanswer]

The purpose of the record keeping seems to have shifted.

Jarom 1:1

1 Now behold, I, Jarom, write a few words according to the commandment of my father, Enos, that our genealogy may be kept.

2 And as these plates are small, and as these things are written for the intent of the benefit of our brethren the Lamanites, 

He had a clear understanding of who his ultimate audience was.

 

In one sense, the phrase "the plan of salvation is all embracing", ie, it covers everything. In another sense, it only deals with a particular part of the gospel.

Jarom 1:2

but I shall not write the things of my prophesying, nor of my revelations. For what could I write more than my fathers have written? For have not they revealed the plan of salvation? 

 

 

The extent of God's mercy and patience continues to surprise me. It is very real and very helpful.

Jarom 1:3

nevertheless, God is exceedingly merciful unto them, 

 

 

It would be another 800 or so years before this happened, and even then, only after they had been sufficiently worthy and faithful that Christ was able to visit them and show unto them greater miracles than what He had shown the Jews.

Jarom 1:3

God is exceedingly merciful unto them, and has not as yet swept them off from the face of the land.

 

This sounds like a different approach from today's model, and more similar to the approach that applied in ancient Israel. In ancient Israel, and seemingly in the time and society of Jarom, it was not uncommon to have more than one source of revelation. Today, we very firmly adhere to the principle that there is only one source of revelation for the whole church across the world.

Jarom 1:4

4 And there are many among us who have many revelations,

 

This does not sound like the people who Jarom described 2 verses ago. Perhaps a great deal of time passed between when he wrote these two verses, and the people changed in the meantime.

Jarom 1:5

5 And now, behold, two hundred years had passed away, and the people of Nephi had waxed strong in the land. They observed to keep the law of Moses and the sabbath day holy unto the Lord. And they profaned not; neither did they blaspheme. And the laws of the land were exceedingly strict.

[Jamie123]

2 hours ago, zil2 said:

So Mosiah leads his people away and trips over Zarahemla (city and leader's name) where the Mulekites (people of Mulek, the son of the Jewish king Zedekiah, who had also fled from Jerusalem - the only son of Zedekiah to survive the Babylonian invasion) live.

I don't see the word "Mulekite" here (unless I missed it). Are they named that elsewhere?

I was vaguely aware of the Jaredites, but its news to me that there was another party from Jerusalem that made it to America.

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

I don't see the word "Mulekite" here (unless I missed it). Are they named that elsewhere?

I was vaguely aware of the Jaredites, but its news to me that there was another party from Jerusalem that made it to America.

"Mulekite" is a term coined by Latter-day Saints to describe what the Book of Mormon calls the people of Zarahemla. It's not found in the text of the Book of Mormon.

[Jamie123]

Another thought - if Mulek was the son of Zedekiah, then his descendents - including Zarahemla - would have been of the royal house of David. Its a little surprising perhaps that they didn't claim the kingship over Mosiah - though maybe having lost their cultural heritage (through having no records) they felt less qualified to lead.

[Jamie123]

9 minutes ago, Vort said:

"Mulekite" is a term coined by Latter-day Saints to describe what the Book of Mormon calls the people of Zarahemla. It's not found in the text of the Book of Mormon.

But presumably the name Mulek is mentioned somewhere else?