Ben Shapiro vs. Candace Owens

[The Folk Prophet]

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Sorry it came across that way, but I have. It’s a relatively useless saying that people  use to show off, score what they think are points, etc.

Maybe it’s just who I hang out but I’ve never heard anyone say it offline in discussion with friends. It’s very dismissive. That could be it. 

I agree that it is often dismissive. That doesn't make it wrong, meaningless, or useless.

In point of fact, it's an extremely meaningful idea that actually matters a great deal. It's unfortunate that it is often used dismissively. (Though I'd argue that it's taken dismissively more than it's used that way.)

It's also often misrepresented to be saying "feelings don't matter". But it doesn't actually mean or say that.

I said it in a jokingly way, but the actual fact is that facts don't care about feelings. That's an obvious truth, but one that's denied by a lot of the world. Denying truth because of feelings is a serious problem in our society.

I can understand that the saying itself has become a dismissive weapon. But to take the idea behind it, the actual meaning of the saying, and disregard it because of that isn't a good idea.

[LDSGator]

19 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I agree that it is often dismissive. That doesn't make it wrong, meaningless, or useless.

In point of fact, it's an extremely meaningful idea that actually matters a great deal. It's unfortunate that it is often used dismissively. (Though I'd argue that it's taken dismissively more than it's used that way.)

It's also often misrepresented to be saying "feelings don't matter". But it doesn't actually mean or say that.

I said it in a jokingly way, but the actual fact is that facts don't care about feelings. That's an obvious truth, but one that's denied by a lot of the world. Denying truth because of feelings is a serious problem in our society.

I can understand that the saying itself has become a dismissive weapon. But to take the idea behind it, the actual meaning of the saying, and disregard it because of that isn't a good idea.

I think I’d have more sympathy for the saying if those who used it the most didn’t think they were right 100% of the time. The saying is used as a victory dance even if the person believes the moon is made of cheese or if the Earth is flat. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by LDSGator

[The Folk Prophet]

4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

...those who used it the most didn’t think they were right 100% of the time.

This strikes me as your bias bleeding into your view on the matter.

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This strikes me as your bias bleeding into your view on the matter.

Maybe. Or maybe it’s just a bitter “fact” that doesn’t care about your feelings. 😉 

[The Folk Prophet]

8 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Maybe. Or maybe it’s just a bitter “fact” that doesn’t care about your feelings. 😉 

I know we're joking around a bit.... but.....

This sort of response (if used seriously, as it sometimes is) is the kind of dismissiveness that's a real problem... not in that it's dismissive, but in that it's calling something a fact without proof or even evidence that it might be a fact.

I'm not arguing here, btw, just using what you said as an example to my point.

You said people who say "facts don't care about your feelings" think they're right 100% of the time. But you provide no evidence. Can there be evidence? How can you, or anyone, possibly know what people think? It's just your assumption based on what seems to be a bit of bias.

Then you follow that by jokingly suggesting that what you said may be a fact. (I know you're being humorously snarky...but just go with it here for the point....).

Fine, right. Maybe. Sure. Maybe.

But it really strikes me that therein lies the potential problem. When we assume things without evidence are factual because of how we feel ----- well by golly that's half the point of the saying. We really ought to stop "feeling" what we think is factual and use actual evidence or statistics to inform our views instead of just our "sense of the matter" (how we feel about it).

As to the specific comment at hand... take Ben Shapiro, for example (after all, he's the one famous for the saying in question). Does Ben Shapiro think he's right 100% of the time?

Obviously it would be easy to assume he does. He speaks as if he's that confident. His mannerisms and attitudes imply it might be true. But....

"First, let me point out that I’ve made mistakes and said dumb stuff. When this is pointed out, I’m more than happy to admit it, " - Ben Shapiro

https://www.dailywire.com/news/so-heres-giant-list-all-dumb-stuff-ive-ever-done-ben-shapiro

Of course this sort of thing is still only evidence. I wouldn't consider it "factual" that Ben Shapiro doesn't believe he's right 100% of the time. He may be providing nothing but lip service. It is, however, factual that he said he's made mistakes. And whether someone "feels" he's never admitted such...well he has. That's a fact.

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

know we're joking around a bit.... but.....

This sort of response (if used seriously, as it sometimes is) is the kind of dismissiveness that's a real problem... not in that it's dismissive, but in that it's calling something a fact without proof or even evidence that it might be a fac

Understand. Sorry my response came out wrong. 100% on me. 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not arguing here, btw, just using what you said as an example to my point.

No worries, didn’t take it that way. 

[LDSGator]

And I like Ben Shapiro. He’s one of the conservative commentators that I respect, even if I disagree with him on several issues. 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I think I’d have more sympathy for the saying if those who used it the most didn’t think they were right 100% of the time.

I'm right 100% of the time, and I don't think I've ever used that phrase. 

Also, funny things are funny:

 

 

 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm right 100% of the time, and I don't think I've ever used that phrase. 

Also, funny things are funny:

 

 

 

LMBO!!!! Those are awesome!!!

[LDSGator]

Do you remember that awful movie Children of the Corn in 1984? Ben Shapiro always looked like one of the kids from it to me.  

[JohnsonJones]

15 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Do you remember that awful movie Children of the Corn in 1984? Ben Shapiro always looked like one of the kids from it to me.  

I've never seen it, but I've heard about it.

Don't the kids kill all the adults or something similar to that?

I think it may have had Superman in it (Christoper Reeve)...which makes it sort of funny if you think about Superman being killed by a bunch of kids.

 

Also, a movie which is not a particularly morally uplifting movie, but DOES tickle the fancy of some of those in Archaeology and/or History at times...which has what I think of as an excellent thought upon fact vs. truth vs. other things...

Posted it here once before I think...but years ago...

 

 

Which is a nice way of saying we can have our truth or faith, but faith/truth doesn't always define facts as the WORLD may recognize them or vice versa.

[LDSGator]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I've never seen it, but I've heard about it.

Don't the kids kill all the adults or something similar to that?

I think it may have had Superman in it (Christoper Reeve)...which makes it sort of funny if you think about Superman being killed by a bunch of kids.

 

I’ve only seen it once and thought it was quite bad. Stephen King is under the wrong impression that rows of cornstalks are scary. They might be to him, but not to me. 

I forget the plot. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

One thing I really admire about Ben is his ability to make fun of himself. I’ve seen things like this trading card (which is from his own website) and I love the video where he makes fun of the guy who questioned his (Bens) height.

This shows not only how secure he is with his own views but that he can just have a good time too. If more conservatives, liberals, religious and atheists could do this it would help their causes tremendously.    

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by LDSGator