It's All Coming Together

[Carborendum]

This is the most insightful video on ... the entire gospel... that I've ever heard.

[Carborendum]

Please note that the guest speaker was taking care to NOT specifically speak of temple ceremonial specifics.  She was speaking of ancient Hebrew traditions.  Please show restraint in any commentary.

BTW, (I'm sure several of you were already ahead of me, but...) I had suspected for some time that the Sermon on the Mount was really a temple ceremony.  I'm now completely convinced of it.

Edited September 5, 2024 by Carborendum

[zil2]

Would be nice if they'd linked some sources.

[Carborendum]

16 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Would be nice if they'd linked some sources.

Here is another video which includes a lot more.  She cites (within the first 15 minutes) a few authors who contributed to her studies.

She is supposed to be writing a book (hopefully it contains a full bibliography).  You can sign up for a waiting list here.

Edited September 5, 2024 by Carborendum

[mikbone]

She seems lovely.  And a scholar.  She has great advice about curiosity and research.

I love and have been studying jewish traditions as well.  It has been enlightening.

You can’t know where you are if you don’t know where you came from.

[Traveler]

20 hours ago, zil2 said:

Would be nice if they'd linked some sources.

We are told in the Book of Mormon that when we understand the Hebrew traditions that we will understand Isaiah better.  We are also told about the importance of Isaiah.  I have often pondered this particular insight into scripture study.  The idea that part of scripture study includes study of things other than just any particular scripture by itself.  Then it seem inevitable that I will come across someone that will not consider any idea without a direct scripture source.  Most hard-core Traditional Christians will say that if it is not in the Bible – they will not believe it.  Of course, the great exception is the various creeds – especially the Trinity.  If it is as they say (such thinkers) – creeds, sermons, Bible classes, discussion, opinions and all such things would not take place or be expressed.  Only scripture would be read and referenced without embellishments.

I find that including ancient traditions to be extremely eye opening to scripture meaning – often pointing to a understanding 180 degrees in directional understanding from what the casual reader concludes.  I have found that the ancient traditions of Middle Eastern Kingdoms – especially the Suzerain Servant Vassel treaties extremely enlightening in understanding the fall and exile of Adam (man) and the relationships of mankind to the Father, and Son.

I will not add something that can be taken as just my opinion.  I believe that there are critical caveats to understanding and studying scripture – regardless of whatever method or construct one uses:

Caveat 1. Prayer.  I believe scripture and study should be pursued in the attitude of prayer and whatever impressions one has ask directly if the understanding is correct.

Caveat 2. The gift of the Holy Ghose is given and maintained by covenant.  As members of the Church of Jesus Christ we receive the covenant of the Holy Ghost, and that covenant is renewed when we take the sacrament.  Someone without this covenant may not have a complete understanding of scripture.

Caveat 3. Meet with and discuss your studies with other Saints often.  Especially those that are loyal to their covenants.  Family and friends, I believe to be a good source.  But the key is listening – especially to new ideas.  On occasion, I have found even atheists to have useful ideas. 

As Latter-day Saints, I do not believe that contentious exchanges of ideas are ever needed or useful.  It is not up to us (as an individual) to convince anyone of anything.  There is a saying that a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I have come to believe that if in any discussion you find that you are getting angry or upset – that you are being dominated by a dark unclean spirit.  If someone is angry or upset, it is best to apologize for speaking to them and leave them to deal with whatever darkness has angered them.  The one exception is if a loving spirit convinces you to provide a witness.  If a loving spirit is so influencing, you – not only can you remain calm but in that calmness you can accept whatever is the outcome.

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

32 minutes ago, Traveler said:

We are told...

No disagreement from me.  I just would have appreciated it if references had been provided in the video description.  Sure, I can start from nothing and research the same things she did, but had I been her, regardless of whether I was writing a book about it, I would have given the channel owner a list of references so that listeners could go and read my sources rather than just having to take my word for it.  (And no, I'm not doubting her word, I just want to read her sources and would have appreciated her saving me some time.)

(I still need to watch the second video.  Perhaps on Sunday.)

[Carborendum]

2 minutes ago, zil2 said:

No disagreement from me.  I just would have appreciated it if references had been provided in the video description.  Sure, I can start from nothing and research the same things she did, but had I been her, regardless of whether I was writing a book about it, I would have given the channel owner a list of references so that listeners could go and read my sources rather than just having to take my word for it.  (And no, I'm not doubting her word, I just want to read her sources and would have appreciated her saving me some time.)

(I still need to watch the second video.  Perhaps on Sunday.)

I can understand that.  I share that desire.  But since I can't communicate with her, I decided to use Google.  I looked up various terms that she used for each new topic.  I found that everything she said about ancient traditions was true.  Note: I only did that for the first 15 to 20 min of the first video.  After getting verification after verification, I figured the rest would be dependable.

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, zil2 said:

No disagreement from me.  I just would have appreciated it if references had been provided in the video description.  Sure, I can start from nothing and research the same things she did, but had I been her, regardless of whether I was writing a book about it, I would have given the channel owner a list of references so that listeners could go and read my sources rather than just having to take my word for it.  (And no, I'm not doubting her word, I just want to read her sources and would have appreciated her saving me some time.)

(I still need to watch the second video.  Perhaps on Sunday.)

 

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I can understand that.  I share that desire.  But since I can't communicate with her, I decided to use Google.  I looked up various terms that she used for each new topic.  I found that everything she said about ancient traditions was true.  Note: I only did that for the first 15 to 20 min of the first video.  After getting verification after verification, I figured the rest would be dependable.

Traditions are seldom as clear cut and defined as advertised.  Especially if they are preserved through oral traditions.   Even written records carefully scrutinized by scribes have strong variances but with written records it is easier to trace variation s.

I will give a quick example concerning the temple garment.  I recall in my younger days decades ago going to the temple for the first time.  My grandparents talked to me about the “traditional” use and attitude concerning the garment.  Back then all garments were one piece but there were variations.  There was an old style that was the only style authorized for use at the temple.  I kept one of those in my temple clothing bag.  It was a one piece with long sleeves to my wrists   and long legs to my ankles.  My grandparents would not wear any other style and felt strongly that anyone using the modern styles were spiritually corrupt.  They were so devout in wearing the garment that they would never take it completely off.  When bathing or changing they would keep an arm or leg on until an arm or lag was in the new garment. 

I have not researched this garment tradition, and I doubt anything was written other than in some journals.   And I am quite sure that journals in various areas will have slight differences.  Even with written records there are differences in the text.  There are over a thousand different types of ancient Biblical text that are labeled as different because they are differences.

I have done research for such things be contacting the local rabbi and discovered that they are delighted that someone is interested in Jewish traditions.  But I have also discovered that you can get different information from different Rabbis.  I have also discovered that you can discover different Christian traditions talking to Christians in different areas of the world – even of the same denomination.

I also discovered a oral tradition concerning the saying “No man knows the hour or the day, not even the angles of heaven but G-d alone knows”,  And that tradition presents a very different meaning concerning what day or hour something will happen.

Converts with a strong Jewish background have a great deal to add to our understanding of scripture – especially the Book of Mormon but few of us generational LDS types seem to care much – basically thinking that because we have prophets to explain everything we do not need to listen. 

I am of a different mind and reference Moroni chapter 10 – especially following the favored missionary verses at the beginning of the chapter.   I think that is great importance concerning spiritual gifts and that everyone has their own spiritual gifts and something to add to the whole of understanding.

 

The Traveler

[laronius]

I haven't watched it all yet and look forward to it, but the first example she gives of Jesus coming as a thief in the night may in fact have dual symbolism going. That's not uncommon. But the scriptures make it very clear that the symbol being used in this instance is an actual thief, not the high priest (though there may be an additional symbol there as well). 

Some people don't like Jesus being compared to a thief. Of course all analogies have their limitations beyond which the symbolism is not intended to be taken. In this instance though, I believe Jesus being compared to a thief is from the householder's perspective (a wicked householder of course). 

This analogy is especially enlightening when used in conjunction with the symbolism of Jesus standing at the door and knocking. The righteous will open the door and let Him in as a welcome Guest. But those who reject Him will in the end not be able to refuse His entrance and what ever was in that house that was more important to them than He who sought admission will be lost to them in the eternities. I think these contrasting symbols elaborate on how the Lord's coming is both great and terrible.

[mikbone]

I learned that Moroni visited Joseph Smith Sept 21-22 of 1823, which coincidentally is the exact day for the Jewish Holiday Rash Hashanah (Jewish new year).

Because the Hebrew calendar is lunisolar, the date of Rosh Hashanah on the Gregorian calendar shifts each year but usually falls between September 5 and October 5.

In essence, the date of Rosh Hashanah is determined by the new moon of the Hebrew month of Tishrei, with adjustments made periodically to keep it aligned with the solar seasons.

We have celebrated Passover for the past 4 years.  But looks like we will celebrate Rash Hashanah this year as well.  October 2-3, right before General Conference…  

Sound the Shofar (Moroni’s Trumpet).

Eat lots of good food. Round Challah, sweet fruits (apples, pomegranate, dates) with honey, Pumpkin, carrots, brisket, etc.