zil2 Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (This post is not about us taking on us the name of Christ.) There are many places in scripture where the phrase "the name of the Lord" is used when (per modern US English) simply saying "the Lord" makes more sense. This isn't always the case. Sometimes, "the name of the Lord" is exactly what we would use in modern US English - so I'm not talking about those instances. Further, there are many places where "the Lord" is used and I couldn't guess why that's chosen in some places and "the name of the Lord" is chosen in others. Here are some examples: Quote Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord. Expand Why not simply, "call upon the Lord."? Quote 1 Chronicles 16:29 Give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness. Expand Why not, "due unto Him"? Quote Isaiah 50:10 ¶ Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God. Expand Why not, "trust in the Lord"? Several more examples, should you wish to read them: Psalm 23:3 Malachi 4:2 John 1:12 3 Nephi 11:17 D&C 20:36 D&C 76:51 (this one has 2 uses, one like I describe above, and one that is exactly as one would expect) D&C 104:60 etc. They're all over, but they're most common in the Old Testament. As mentioned, there are many places where a statement references simply "the Lord", so obviously it's not some mandatory phrasing or the only option available in the language of the time - it's a choice, and I'm wondering why. Now, I can speculate as well as anyone here on why the verses say "the name of the Lord" rather than saying simply, "the Lord". But I'm wondering if anyone has any direct knowledge as to why - something beyond simple speculation or logic. Share your speculations if you wish - I'm game for further insight, but I'm thinking perhaps there's something unique to Hebrew or the culture of the Old Testament that causes them to sometimes choose this language, and once the pattern was set, additional scripture adhered to it... Since I don't know any OT or Jewish scholars, I'm asking here. Thanks for your insights. Quote
mikbone Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) Good question. I don’t know. Only thing I can think of is: D&C 107: 3 Before his day it was called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God. 4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name, they, the church, in ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood. Also this, but probably not what you were looking for… Edited March 4 by mikbone zil2 and Anddenex 2 Quote
Carborendum Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 1:40 AM, zil2 said: There are many places in scripture where the phrase "the name of the Lord" is used when (per modern US English) simply saying "the Lord" makes more sense. Expand In Hebrew, "name" also means: Reputation Power Authority Glory ...specifically in regards to a person of renown or authority. e.g. "...make a name for ourselves..." This is why we pray and perform ordinances "in the name of Jesus Christ." Edited March 4 by Carborendum Anddenex, HaggisShuu, zil2 and 2 others 5 Quote
zil2 Posted March 4 Author Report Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 9:32 AM, mikbone said: D&C 107: 3 Before his day it was called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God. 4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name, they, the church, in ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood. Expand I do suspect there's something related there, and this morning when I woke, a thought came to mind. This often suggests that the thought is from God, but I can't be sure this one is - it would take quite a bit of time to analyze and try to determine the likelihood - but the thought was that perhaps every place where we have "the name of the Lord", is where one of the Deuteronomists removed reference to the Son of God. On 3/4/2025 at 9:32 AM, mikbone said: Also this, but probably not what you were looking for… Expand No, but I think that our use in fiction of the idea that names have power descends from truth. We learn in the temple that there is power and importance to names beyond what we recognize in the modern world. I can't say I understand this, but I believe it. Quote
zil2 Posted March 4 Author Report Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 1:09 PM, Carborendum said: In Hebrew, "name" also means: Reputation Power Authority Glory ...specifically in regards to a person of renown or authority. e.g. "...make a name for ourselves..." This is why we pray and perform ordinances "in the name of Jesus Christ." Expand Yes, I know this. And I skipped over many instances where this is clearly what is being said. I also skipped over some instances that seemed to use the phrase for poetic or similar purpose. But why, for example, praise the name of the Lord rather than just praising the Lord? I mean, OK, maybe the modern translation would be to praise God's reputation, power, authority, and / or glory rather than praising God.... Just seems strange. If that's all there is to it, OK. I'm just wondering if there's more. Of course, apparently there are fewer original words in Hebrew, and this could simply be idiomatic language... I learned a while back that in Hebrew, "to breathe" is basically synonymous with "to exist" - there was more, but I didn't consider it worth noting at the time, so I've forgotten it. But it was clear that Hebrew thought and philosophy were very different from our own (which derive from Greek), and this makes me think there's probably a level of cultural understanding here that's hard to attain without in depth knowledge of said Hebrew language, thought, and philosophy... Would that I could go back to the start of my college days and major in religious studies... Quote
Carborendum Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 1:40 AM, zil2 said: Why not simply, "call upon the Lord."? Why not, "due unto Him"? Why not, "trust in the Lord"? Expand First, we need to understand that it is a figure of speech from a truly ancient culture. It refers to the idea that the person and the position/authority/power, etc. are one. The closest thing we have in our cultural history is that when referring to the King of a nation, we may not say "the king." We might say "the crown" or "the throne." Why not say "the king"? They could. But it is just a more formal and respectful way of saying it. Sometimes, they wouldn't even use these terms. The King of England was often simply referred to as "England." The same for France and other European countries. In Hamlet, you may recall that the King of Denmark was simply referred to as "The Dane." Unlike mortal politicians, when addressing Deity, we consider the being and office to be one. So, if we call upon the "power of God" we are calling upon God. When we call upon the Name of God, we are calling upon his power and authority. Why? Because in worship, it behooves us to recognize the power and authority of God any time we address Him. Today, we don't do that so much. But the ancients did it much more commonly. And they did it with all the formalities that our modern culture shuns. So, it is a cultural thing. Once you see it in that light, it becomes second nature and you won't even blink at it anymore. Second, remember that people weren't allowed to speak the name of God (YHWH). So, they came up with creative ways to clearly imply it, without actually saying it. We see YHWH when written. But as people spoke it, they would substitute things so it was only implied. But to "imply" we need other words around it to make it seem obvious. In the end, we use figures of speech like this all the time -- and they seem to be interchangeable. How often would one say "Trump", "President Trump", "The President." I've often heard people use "The Oval Office" in place of the person who is the President of the day. "We need to get permission from the Oval Office" just as previous centuries would say "we need permission from the throne/the crown." We do this all the time. We just don't think about it. Edited March 4 by Carborendum zil2, classylady and JohnsonJones 1 2 Quote
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