I Am Resigning From The Church

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 5 2004, 08:19 PM

I know somebody that you should meet. His name is Jesus. He is one of those guys that just makes you a better person simply by hanging around Him. You've obviously never heard of him. You should take a minute away from mormonism and look him up sometime.

Now Trident,

Would you consider yourself someone in whom the hand of the Savior is manifest? Someone whose heart has been changed by the grace of God? An example of the pure love of Christ - with a soul absent of malice toward your fellow man?

...and congrats on your 20% pay raise, second child and paid in full mortgage. I myself have recent become fully continent.

By the way, I know somebody you should meet. His name is Bojangles and he'll dance for you in worn out shoes with silver hair and ragged shirt and baggy pants He would do the old soft shoe...

again, contrats on your %20 pay raise.

[Lindy]

lindy, unfortunately everbody on this board does not feel that way. There are people here who don't want the best for others, they just want others to do what they want and will curse them when they don't. It's the if you don't do as I say then to hell with you.

I'm sorry Tr2 that you see others in that light...I think that there are some great people on this board...

In your reply to Setheus you said

I know somebody that you should meet. His name is Jesus. He is one of those guys that just makes you a better person simply by hanging around Him. You've obviously never heard of him. You should take a minute away from mormonism and look him up sometime

and I have to say that it is FROM Mormonism that I have a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. He does make me a better person because I hang around to listen to His words....and from reading the posts from Setheus....I would bet that he has that same relationship with Christ. As do a lot of the LDS posters on this board.

On a side note....congrats on the new baby to be....the promotion...and the happy life you have. Glad it can happen to someone...

[Tr2]

Would you consider yourself someone in whom the hand of the Savior is manifest?

At times, yes.

Someone whose heart has been changed by the grace of God?

Without a doubt.

An example of the pure love of Christ - with a soul absent of malice toward your fellow man?

No.

.I think that there are some great people on this board...

Some, yes. All, no.

[Guest Cheezasaurus/2ex]

I boxed up my LDS memorabilia (it is nothing more to me than some memories, mostly good)

Keep those boxes close by.

[Guest Starsky]

TR2...

Your posts have mostly been negative and slamming....and you say you have been born of Christ....I think by your fruits....I question that reality as much as Setheus questions you being a seal...

Maybe you should start taking a better look at yourself...and be less critical of people here....

Matt 7:

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

I can use this one myself... :)

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 5 2004, 10:41 PM

Would you consider yourself someone in whom the hand of the Savior is manifest?

At times, yes.

Someone whose heart has been changed by the grace of God?

Without a doubt.

That fair Trident, my point was, if I had a point, was that you, and me are typically among the least charitable and kind posters on the board - at least in the public way we express ourselves - so when you make a plea to come unto Christ - it sounds incongruous. I suppose that in real world you are a decent enough fellow though.

[Snow]

Originally posted by naomi@Jun 4 2004, 10:48 PM

...(make no mistake about it: the ward gossip meter is on overdrive and my answering machine is full of insincere messages crying "friendship" from utter strangers so any "friends" I manage to keep who are LDS are incredibly special to me)

... am looking for a decent bible believing church.

Couple thought Naomi,

First, how do you know the people are really insincere? They are calling with messages of friendship you say. If they be insincere, what is the real reason they are calling? To borrow the money you would otherwise have spent in fast offerings? It is dangerous to ascribe motives.

Second, why would people care if you left? I think the answer lies in the part of your post that says you are looking for a decent Bible believing church. You seem to indicate that any Church that believes the Bible is okay. Acutally you mean a bit more than that but more on that later. Not one word about truth, authority, inspiration - just Bible believing. It is an incredibly watered-down version of the gospel. This church would be okay, or that one or the one around the corner down by the river, whatever, it's all good! It is the exact opposite of what we in the Church of Jesus Christ believe. We do not believe that God is a god of disorder and confusion and conflicting doctrine and competing missions. If a person were to leave your soon to be "Bible believing" church and go to another church that believes the Bible, would anyone of them care? Not in the same way that the "insincere" Mormons care. They might have social ideas of companionship but for them it would not be an issue of salvation or truth - cuz any Church that believes the Bible will do, won't it, it's all good, ain't it.

You know, there is a bit of controversy in one of those Bible believing churches right now. I read an article on it a couple weeks ago. As I recall, some bishops in the Angelican Church are refusing to sign of support some official statement because it makes a statement that Christ is the only means of salvation. By golly that would exclude all those lovely Muslims and Hindus and Jainists and Zorasters and Santarians and VooDoo practioners and Wickens and Pagans from coverage unders God's love and salvation. We can't have that cuz all you gotta do is believe and now it doesn't even matter what you believe in. It's all good. Sure, the Bible is the best place to start, but.... You may think that is quite a jump from whatever church believes in the Bible to whatever church believes in God, or a god but it is a jump that Bible believing churches are making and is not that great of leap from those who wish to follow God and believe that he is not a God of confusion and disorder and it's all good...

Beyond that - your desire to look for a Bible believing Church is nonsense. It implies that the LDS Church is not a Bible believing Church which we all know is a lie. Don't lie to us Naomi. What you mean is that you are looking for a Church that interprets the Bible in a way differently than the way the LDS Church interprets the Bible - a way that you, Naomi, think that they should interpret it, setting yourself as the authority on what determines correct interpretation. Honestly, honesty is a better policy.

[Lindy]

Beyond that - your desire to look for a Bible believing Church is nonsense. It implies that the LDS Church is not a Bible believing Church which we all know is a lie. Don't lie to us Naomi. What you mean is that you are looking for a Church that interprets the Bible in a way differently than the way the LDS Church interprets the Bible - a way that you, Naomi, think that they should interpret it, setting yourself as the authority on what determines correct interpretation. Honestly, honesty is a better policy.

Good point Snow....very good point infact. I felt a bit humbled while reading the post (as I do with all the sincere, posts you make). I think I missed the looking for a Bible believing church part, some parts of posts grab us and other parts don't.....that part grabbed you for the reasons you stated above....inspiritation to share with others that which what we think and feel is different from individual to individual. Good job sharing that statement.

Too many people think that by leaving the church they leave the truths that the church stands for....they can walk, but they do not take any of the truths away from the structure of the church.

And I honestly think that those who do walk away will keep a small bit of what they learned or have experienced with them always.

[Tr2]

Beyond that - your desire to look for a Bible believing Church is nonsense. It implies that the LDS Church is not a Bible believing Church which we all know is a lie. Don't lie to us Naomi. What you mean is that you are looking for a Church that interprets the Bible in a way differently than the way the LDS Church interprets the Bible - a way that you, Naomi, think that they should interpret it, setting yourself as the authority on what determines correct interpretation. Honestly, honesty is a better policy.

You are right. The mormon church is a bible believing church. It just doesn't believe in all the bible. It has picked which parts of the bible it wants to believe and ignored the rest or simply brushed it off. What Naomi likely meant was that she'd like to find a church that believes the bible fully, that doesn't undercut the bible, doesn't manipulate scriptures to form new theologies. Muslims are bible believers too, just like mormons. As are countless other religions that are anything but Christian.

And she didn't lie about anything, she just phrased it in a way that you didn't like.

[Tr2]

Your posts have mostly been negative and slamming....and you say you have been born of Christ....I think by your fruits....I question that reality as much as Setheus questions you being a seal...

Maybe you should start taking a better look at yourself...and be less critical of people here....

Nice way to completely change the subject.

You said life isn't as challenging or abundant outside the mormon church, I showed you otherwise. If you want to end this discussion because you cannot back up your words, I understand.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 6 2004, 03:56 PM

You are right. The mormon church is a bible believing church. It just doesn't believe in all the bible. It has picked which parts of the bible it wants to believe and ignored the rest or simply brushed it off. What Naomi likely meant was that she'd like to find a church that believes the bible fully, that doesn't undercut the bible, doesn't manipulate scriptures to form new theologies. Muslims are bible believers too, just like mormons. As are countless other religions that are anything but Christian.

And she didn't lie about anything, she just phrased it in a way that you didn't like.

Don't be a tool. We should make a rule: "No Tools"

First, I don't even know what you mean. You say 1. We believe the Bible. 2. We don't believe it at all. 3. We believe some of it.

Which is it Trident. All, none, part? Pick one cause it can't be all three.

Second. You are lying and you know you are lying so that makes you a lying liar. Mormons believe the Bible - every word. We just don't believe it in the exact way you want us to believe it. I urge you to stop being a lying lies who tells big fat lies.

You are a bigger liar than Naomi. She only lied by implication. Her lie was a little skinny lie. Your lie was morbidly obese. Stop the lies and give peace a chance.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 6 2004, 03:59 PM

You said life isn't as challenging or abundant outside the mormon church, I showed you otherwise.

Yes,

Congrats on your 20% pay raise.

Oh! Since you were lying about Mormons not believing the Bible, how do we know that you got a 20% pay raise and not a %20 pay diminution.

Hey everybody. I bet Trident got a 20% pay cut, took out a 3rd on his montage du mortgage and is working on his 7th child.

[Tr2]

Don't be a tool. We should make a rule: "No Tools"

First, I don't even know what you mean. You say 1. We believe the Bible. 2. We don't believe it at all. 3. We believe some of it.

Which is it Trident. All, none, part? Pick one cause it can't be all three.

Second. You are lying and you know you are lying so that makes you a lying liar. Mormons believe the Bible - every word. We just don't believe it in the exact way you want us to believe it. I urge you to stop being a lying lies who tells big fat lies.

You are a bigger liar than Naomi. She only lied by implication. Her lie was a little skinny lie. Your lie was morbidly obese. Stop the lies and give peace a chance.

snow, you are lying and I know that you are lying. stop being a liar. Liar!

[naomi]

Originally posted by Snow+Jun 6 2004, 05:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jun 6 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Jun 6 2004, 03:56 PM

You are right. The mormon church is a bible believing church. It just doesn't believe in all the bible. It has picked which parts of the bible it wants to believe and ignored the rest or simply brushed it off. What Naomi likely meant was that she'd like to find a church that believes the bible fully, that doesn't undercut the bible, doesn't manipulate scriptures to form new theologies. Muslims are bible believers too, just like mormons. As are countless other religions that are anything but Christian.

And she didn't lie about anything, she just phrased it in a way that you didn't like.

Don't be a tool. We should make a rule: "No Tools"

First, I don't even know what you mean. You say 1. We believe the Bible. 2. We don't believe it at all. 3. We believe some of it.

Which is it Trident. All, none, part? Pick one cause it can't be all three.

Second. You are lying and you know you are lying so that makes you a lying liar. Mormons believe the Bible - every word. We just don't believe it in the exact way you want us to believe it. I urge you to stop being a lying lies who tells big fat lies.

You are a bigger liar than Naomi. She only lied by implication. Her lie was a little skinny lie. Your lie was morbidly obese. Stop the lies and give peace a chance.

Snow is precisely the kind of person that misrepresents your (can no longer call it mine) church so horribly to the rest of the world (for some reason, coworkers regale me with stories of the worst LDS folks they run across: it hurts me but I understand). To use an old retail story: There may be 20 wonderful Mormons and one Snow folks encounter and guess who folks remember? And the "friends" who could not find time to call me back, to make plans and then not show up when we had arranged to do so, to not call and cancel (I understand emergencies and have had my share but the not calling and not showing up?) to simply say the right thing and do the opposite are all of a sudden calling and "Friendshipping"? It does not work that way. My non LDS friends OTOH have been consistent and honestly do care. So yes, the wave of phone calls and letters is striking a distinctly false note. And No I am NOT going to pray at the next Relief Society meeting: I put in a letter of resignation effective immediately and mean what I said. I will carry fond memories of friends and some wonderful leaders but that is no longer enough.

[Tr2]

Snow is precisely the kind of person that misrepresents your (can no longer call it mine) church so horribly to the rest of the world

[Snow]

Snow is precisely the kind of person that misrepresents your (can no longer call it mine) church so horribly to the rest of the world (for some reason, coworkers regale me with stories of the worst LDS folks they run across: it hurts me but I understand).

REALLY Naomi?

What did I say that you find objectionable? What did I say that was even insulting? Methinks that you have some issues and conveniently need someone to blame (besides yourself) for them. After all - I wasn't the self-righteous one who misrepresented the Church, but good luck with that defense mechanism problem. Try taking some responsiblity for you own actions. It worked for Tonya Harding.

[Lindy]

Naomi~I know what it is like to get the "fake and phony" smiles believe me, I don't have a chance to get to church a lot anymore with the church schedule changes and my work schedule changes. People assume the worst about others they really don't know. And then when things happen...they want to clear their conscience by calling and acting like they really give a rip. It's sad I will admit...like having your VT's come over the very last day of the month just so they can claim you as part of their numbers. It's hog wash. when they don't acknowdlege your existence anyother time.

There have been times when I will just sit and remember the ward I used to be in...the ward that really cared about others and encompassed everyone as a brother and sister in the gospel. Not caring about the strengths or weakness of their testimony, but accepting them as part of their ward family for who they actually were....sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father. I miss my old ward.

But the people in any ward shouldn't take away the things that you found in the church that were important in your life. People are people...fallible as human beings.

You shouldn't leave the church because of the people, they are not the ones you have to answer to in the end...you have to make yourself right in the eyes of God...

I don't blame the ward members anymore...because I intend to keep myself right before God...and progress towards my eternal happiness. Without the help of Home Teachers or Visiting Teachers, or the chance to go to church as often as I would like. I use the board as an interim help and substitute for lack of HT/VT etc.

And you need to know that Tr2 is not a memeber of the LDS church....and even if you have a problem with Snow's posts that you have seen, I don't think that you have seen the insightful inspiritional posts that he has shared with us.

End of my tirade.....

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 6 2004, 04:18 PM

Don't be a tool. We should make a rule: "No Tools"

First, I don't even know what you mean. You say 1. We believe the Bible. 2. We don't believe it at all. 3. We believe some of it.

Which is it Trident. All, none, part? Pick one cause it can't be all three.

Second. You are lying and you know you are lying so that makes you a lying liar. Mormons believe the Bible - every word. We just don't believe it in the exact way you want us to believe it. I urge you to stop being a lying lies who tells big fat lies.

You are a bigger liar than Naomi. She only lied by implication. Her lie was a little skinny lie. Your lie was morbidly obese. Stop the lies and give peace a chance.

snow, you are lying and I know that you are lying. stop being a liar. Liar!

Here's the difference Trident.

When I call you a liar, that is because you lie. The lie you told was that Mormons don't believe the Bible. Here is the lying quote:

"It just doesn't believe in all the bible."

I know it is a lie, you know it is a lie, Naomi knows it is a lie and every single person on this board knows you are a lying liar. There is the proof, in quotation marks. Now, where is the lie you say I told? You can't find it because it is not there. So that makes you a double liar.

Now, I may be unkind to call you on your lies, but I am honest about it. You, on the other hand, just got through saying that Christ had changed your heart.

Care to tell us how it is that you heart is changed and yet you lie AND lie when every single person reading the thread can see your lie??????

Maybe your heart isn't so changed and you thunk it was. What do you say Naomi?

[Guest Chell]

Originally posted by Snow@Jun 7 2004, 12:15 AM

Snow is precisely the kind of person that misrepresents your (can no longer call it mine) church so horribly to the rest of the world (for some reason, coworkers regale me with stories of the worst LDS folks they run across: it hurts me but I understand).

REALLY Naomi?

What did I say that you find objectionable? What did I say that was even insulting? Methinks that you have some issues and conveniently need someone to blame (besides yourself) for them. After all - I wasn't the self-righteous one who misrepresented the Church, but good luck with that defense mechanism problem. Try taking some responsiblity for you own actions. It worked for Tonya Harding.

I agree. :)

[Guest Chell]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jun 7 2004, 12:21 AM

Naomi~I know what it is like to get the "fake and phony" smiles believe me, I don't have a chance to get to church a lot anymore with the church schedule changes and my work schedule changes. People assume the worst about others they really don't know. And then when things happen...they want to clear their conscience by calling and acting like they really give a rip. It's sad I will admit...like having your VT's come over the very last day of the month just so they can claim you as part of their numbers. It's hog wash. when they don't acknowdlege your existence anyother time.

There have been times when I will just sit and remember the ward I used to be in...the ward that really cared about others and encompassed everyone as a brother and sister in the gospel. Not caring about the strengths or weakness of their testimony, but accepting them as part of their ward family for who they actually were....sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father. I miss my old ward.

But the people in any ward shouldn't take away the things that you found in the church that were important in your life. People are people...fallible as human beings.

You shouldn't leave the church because of the people, they are not the ones you have to answer to in the end...you have to make yourself right in the eyes of God...

I don't blame the ward members anymore...because I intend to keep myself right before God...and progress towards my eternal happiness. Without the help of Home Teachers or Visiting Teachers, or the chance to go to church as often as I would like. I use the board as an interim help and substitute for lack of HT/VT etc.

And you need to know that Tr2 is not a memeber of the LDS church....and even if you have a problem with Snow's posts that you have seen, I don't think that you have seen the insightful inspiritional posts that he has shared with us.

End of my tirade.....

Great post Lindy.. :)

[Setheus]

Come now Snow, let them last at least a few rounds before you TKO!

[naomi]

Originally posted by Snow+Jun 6 2004, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jun 6 2004, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Jun 6 2004, 04:18 PM

Don't be a tool. We should make a rule: "No Tools"

First, I don't even know what you mean. You say 1. We believe the Bible. 2. We don't believe it at all. 3. We believe some of it.

Which is it Trident. All, none, part? Pick one cause it can't be all three.

Second. You are lying and you know you are lying so that makes you a lying liar. Mormons believe the Bible - every word. We just don't believe it in the exact way you want us to believe it. I urge you to stop being a lying lies who tells big fat lies.

You are a bigger liar than Naomi. She only lied by implication. Her lie was a little skinny lie. Your lie was morbidly obese. Stop the lies and give peace a chance.

snow, you are lying and I know that you are lying. stop being a liar. Liar!

Here's the difference Trident.

When I call you a liar, that is because you lie. The lie you told was that Mormons don't believe the Bible. Here is the lying quote:

"It just doesn't believe in all the bible."

I know it is a lie, you know it is a lie, Naomi knows it is a lie and every single person on this board knows you are a lying liar. There is the proof, in quotation marks. Now, where is the lie you say I told? You can't find it because it is not there. So that makes you a double liar.

Now, I may be unkind to call you on your lies, but I am honest about it. You, on the other hand, just got through saying that Christ had changed your heart.

Care to tell us how it is that you heart is changed and yet you lie AND lie when every single person reading the thread can see your lie??????

Maybe your heart isn't so changed and you thunk it was. What do you say Naomi?

Snow, try Wellbutrin. Or Paxil. I really feel nothing but pity for you.

[Faerie]

you people need to get a grip!! lol!!

naomi: i'm sorry that you've made your decision, but it is YOUR decision...

all this other crap is pointless and lame...arguing about who's being a liar and who believes in what Christ and not one post on this board about anything positive..just debating and tearing down Mormon beliefs...no wonder people are leaving by the droves!!

[Snow]

Maybe your heart isn't so changed and you thunk it was. What do you say Naomi?

Snow, try Wellbutrin. Or Paxil. I really feel nothing but pity for you.

Naomi,

A little less self-righteousness and a little more forthrightness wouldn't kill you. Trident took your dishonest implication and turned it into a full-born lie and you feel pity for me?

How does that work? What about his dishonestly causes you to emote pity? Actually, I seriously doubt that you feel pity. You are just trying to insult me my suggesting that that I am sure a lost soul that the only posible option is feel sorry for me. That approach only works if indeed I - or rather the people you are trying to impress - believe that you truly feel sorry rather than simply feeling caught trying to act supercillious.

Let me axe you something Naomi... you were obivously trying to insult mormonism, albeit a slight insult. When then Naomi, would it bother you that someone noticed. If you didn't want anyone to notice, you could have made a gracious farewell to Mormonism....

...I'll tell you what I would respect: Someone who says "Upon futher reflection, I no longer choose to believe the Mormon myths of angels and revelation and miracles and magic and instead have decided to believe just the ancient myths of angels and revelation and miracles and magic. It is easier for me to believe in magic (the supernatural) if it happened millenia ago when it can't be verified rather than in the here and now world of modern science and thought."

I'd respect that instead of the back handed and thinly veiled insults and talk of 'at the cost of eternal soul...'

By the way, aren't Wellbutrin and Paxil SSRI's? What makes you think that I need my serotonin re-uptake inhibited? Or were you just trying to justify your insults by making me out to be the bad guy?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Setheus@Jun 6 2004, 05:42 PM

Come now Snow, let them last at least a few rounds before you TKO!

TKO. Odd choice of expression - from boxing called the sweet science in reference to a ring tactician who possesses and exhibits exemplerary defensive skills. I said that Trident was a liar and Trident said I was a liar. The difference is, that Trident actually lied and so the blow landed. I, on the other hand, defended by myself by not lying and so his blow was just so much wind.

Sweet science baby.