I Am Resigning From The Church

[Snow]

Originally posted by Peace@Jun 8 2004, 11:23 AM

Who says we rely on Joseph Smith...he is dead.

We rely upon the work he did through Christ...just as we rely upon the Bible prophet's works...

I'm sure you mean to say... the work CHRIST did, through Joseph Smith, not the t'other way around.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Ray@Jun 8 2004, 09:56 AM

A prospective LDS should be able to testify that Jesus Christ ordained Joseph Smith to establish the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints upon the face of this Earth.

So what.

Read the scriptures. Salvation doesn't come from believing in Joseph Smith.

Ya'll are blabbering on about how important YOU think it is. Who cares what YOU think about it (beyond an interest in spirited good-natured debate). What matters is what God thinks about it. People have been obeying God - and thus going about the business of being saved since the dawn of time, with no thought of a advent of a restoration. The rules of salvation didn't change in the 1820.

Let me remind you what God said about it:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"

[Setheus]

see post below.... B)

[Setheus]

Originally posted by Snow+Jun 8 2004, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jun 8 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jun 8 2004, 11:23 AM

Who says we rely on Joseph Smith...he is dead.

We rely upon the work he did through Christ...just as we rely upon the Bible prophet's works...

I'm sure you mean to say... the work CHRIST did, through Joseph Smith, not the t'other way around.

In the teams we call this "Attention to detail"

[Snow]

Originally posted by naomi@Jun 7 2004, 11:16 PM

What are you talking about Snow? You are a bit offended and thus are offensive. I really hope you can find some peace in your heart.

Tsk, tsk, tsk,

You want to be free to insult the faith and yet get bent we it is noticed but lack the fortitude to say it outright and so you cook up a big pot of passivo al agresso.

If it makes you that uncomfortable, try be less obvious Naomi.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Snow+Jun 8 2004, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jun 8 2004, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Jun 8 2004, 11:23 AM

Who says we rely on Joseph Smith...he is dead.

We rely upon the work he did through Christ...just as we rely upon the Bible prophet's works...

I'm sure you mean to say... the work CHRIST did, through Joseph Smith, not the t'other way around.

hmmmmm...so Christ's hand translated the book of Mormon...through the inspiration of JS.....and it was upon Christ's head that the priesthood....from Joseph Smith, was given Him?

This is very confusing...

[Guest Ruthie-chan]

Well, I certainly did not expect my first post to be this one.

This thread has certainly gotten off topic (which is Naomi leaving the Church).

Naomi, I know what it's like to have people gossip about you and your family. It's happened to me.

Let me tell you a little bit about myself.

I am married to a nonmember. We have a 13 month old girl named Hazel.

In the ward I grew up in, some people stopped giving me the time of day because I wasn't married in the Temple.

I just didn't care. They didn't know what my situation was, or anything. I personally feel bad for them for judging me so.

Matt. 7: 1

1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

Luke 6: 37

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

3 Nephi 14: 1

1 AND now it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words he turned again to the multitude, and did open his mouth unto them again, saying: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Moroni 7: 18

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

There are many other scriptures that speak of wrongful judgments. You can do a search for them if you like:

http://scriptures.lds.org/contents

Via the same site you can read about the beginnings of the LDS church (Joseph Smith History).

All "mormon" scripture is found there.

You can also read about our basic beliefs here: http://www.mormon.org

(The links are also in response to others who don't understand certain things about us.)

Anyway Naomi, I know what it means to be judged, and to feel unwanted or uncared for.

Mormons are not perfect. No one is. We're all human.

Just like other people, Mormons come in all shapes sizes and attitudes, from the meek to the "high and mighty".

But ya know what?

It doesn't matter.

The Gospel will never hurt you. The people in it will.

The Gospel is perfect. The people in it are not.

If you are having issues with people, talk to your Bishop, your Relief Society President, or if you're not comfortable with that, you can talk to me.

I understand.

I refuse to let the actions of others govern me or keep me away from the only true church on earth.

I go to church, I fulfill my callings, I go the Temple, I read my scriptures and pray.

Does that make me perfect? Heck no! I still have flaws that I need to work on!

I even have times where I start slacking off. I'm getting better at that. My slacking off periods don't last so long anymore.

(I'm lucky I have a husband who supports me in my beliefs even though he doesn't believe.)

People can say whatever they want. They can love me or judge me.

It makes no difference to me as long as I am doing what I need to do.

Other topics that came up in this thread should really be in a thread all on their own.

It's rather difficult to keep a coherent thread when it's going in 5 different directions. Oy.

So, that's why I responded only Naomi. Otherwise you'd all be reading a novel!

[Lindy]

Welcome to the board Ruthie-Chan! I like you already!

Sometimes our threads go go off topic...but as you can see Naomi is still replying, still reading the board.....which gives her the time she needs to help her:

Have a place to vent frustrations or

Learn a little more or

Accept the church first BEFORE it's members or

Have a little cooling down time that she needs or

all or none of the above.

You may think that there are some who are "hard" on her for what she says about leaving the church...just be aware that there are some who just come to this board to stir things up by telling others how "wrong" the church is for them. They haven't been here for very long...and just kind of drop in to announce "what's wrong with the church", "I'm leaving because....." yada, yada, yada. This is a real testimony killer for some of the board members who are investigating the church. It is easier to understand and respond to the non members who are on this board than it is to the ones who just show up and announce "the church is wrong....I'm leaving". Snow has been very good ( I hate to admit) at reading people, the board was purged of all the older posts awhile back...so you can't even go back and read all what has happened on this board to the past year or more.

Inhale........

anyway...glad that you found us...welcome to the board....you seem to be very sincere, and it will be nice to read your posts. :)

[Guest lt]

Originally posted by Ruthie-chan@Jun 8 2004, 10:58 PM

Well, I certainly did not expect my first post to be this one.

This thread has certainly gotten off topic (which is Naomi leaving the Church).

Naomi, I know what it's like to have people gossip about you and your family. It's happened to me.

Let me tell you a little bit about myself.

I am married to a nonmember. We have a 13 month old girl named Hazel.

In the ward I grew up in, some people stopped giving me the time of day because I wasn't married in the Temple.

I just didn't care. They didn't know what my situation was, or anything. I personally feel bad for them for judging me so.

Matt. 7: 1

1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

Luke 6: 37

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

3 Nephi 14: 1

1 AND now it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words he turned again to the multitude, and did open his mouth unto them again, saying: Verily, verily, I say unto you, Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Moroni 7: 18

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

There are many other scriptures that speak of wrongful judgments. You can do a search for them if you like:

http://scriptures.lds.org/contents

Via the same site you can read about the beginnings of the LDS church (Joseph Smith History).

All "mormon" scripture is found there.

You can also read about our basic beliefs here: http://www.mormon.org

(The links are also in response to others who don't understand certain things about us.)

Anyway Naomi, I know what it means to be judged, and to feel unwanted or uncared for.

Mormons are not perfect. No one is. We're all human.

Just like other people, Mormons come in all shapes sizes and attitudes, from the meek to the "high and mighty".

But ya know what?

It doesn't matter.

The Gospel will never hurt you. The people in it will.

The Gospel is perfect. The people in it are not.

If you are having issues with people, talk to your Bishop, your Relief Society President, or if you're not comfortable with that, you can talk to me.

I understand.

I refuse to let the actions of others govern me or keep me away from the only true church on earth.

I go to church, I fulfill my callings, I go the Temple, I read my scriptures and pray.

Does that make me perfect? Heck no! I still have flaws that I need to work on!

I even have times where I start slacking off. I'm getting better at that. My slacking off periods don't last so long anymore.

(I'm lucky I have a husband who supports me in my beliefs even though he doesn't believe.)

People can say whatever they want. They can love me or judge me.

It makes no difference to me as long as I am doing what I need to do.

Other topics that came up in this thread should really be in a thread all on their own.

It's rather difficult to keep a coherent thread when it's going in 5 different directions. Oy.

So, that's why I responded only Naomi. Otherwise you'd all be reading a novel!

<span style=\'color:red\'>AMEN TO THAT!

[naomi]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jun 9 2004, 09:42 AM

Welcome to the board Ruthie-Chan! I like you already!

Sometimes our threads go go off topic...but as you can see Naomi is still replying, still reading the board.....which gives her the time she needs to help her:

Have a place to vent frustrations or

Learn a little more or

Accept the church first BEFORE it's members or

Have a little cooling down time that she needs or

all or none of the above.

You may think that there are some who are "hard" on her for what she says about leaving the church...just be aware that there are some who just come to this board to stir things up by telling others how "wrong" the church is for them. They haven't been here for very long...and just kind of drop in to announce "what's wrong with the church", "I'm leaving because....." yada, yada, yada. This is a real testimony killer for some of the board members who are investigating the church. It is easier to understand and respond to the non members who are on this board than it is to the ones who just show up and announce "the church is wrong....I'm leaving". Snow has been very good ( I hate to admit) at reading people, the board was purged of all the older posts awhile back...so you can't even go back and read all what has happened on this board to the past year or more.

Inhale........

anyway...glad that you found us...welcome to the board....you seem to be very sincere, and it will be nice to read your posts. :)

Got a confirmation that 30 days will pass and my resignation will be official. Kind of cathartic and there are nice members of your church *no longer mine* which is hard to see sometimes. I don't accept the doctrines and that more than any human, nice or nasty is critical for me in believing in a god or gods or whatever there is. I do find the suspicion a bit offensive but am sure there must be a history I am unaware of with trolls and the like. Thanks Ruthie & Laurel. I really don't want to be that "bitter apostate" and would like to leave your church on a somewhat decent note. Thanks for that opportunity and reminder that most LDS are great folks. I truly appreciate the timely reminder.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jun 5 2004, 12:40 AM

Leaving something you had special in your life is always a hard thing to do...I wish you luck in finding what you need in your life.

Keep faith in what is important to you...you'll be ok.

Naomi~

I still stick to the above quote I left for you at the start of this thread....I don't have any hard feelings toward you, don't think you are a troll or the like, like we had in the past; I think you are sincere in your choice to leave.

It was wrong of me to post that to Ruthie....I should have PM'd her with it...and I do apologize....it wasn't to defame you...just to let her know what has happened here in the past.

My bad

Sorry,

Lindy

PS.... remember that you can still have friends that are LDS....a difference in opinion shouldn't deter friendship.

[Guest Ruthie-chan]

Naomi, why not this?

Why not just go inactive and do your own thing for a while?

You may want to come back and it's much simpler to return if you're still on our records.

What doctrines do you disagree with?

Maybe you are simply misunderstanding a few things, and once cleared up, you won't feel the same way anymore.

[naomi]

Originally posted by Ruthie-chan@Jun 10 2004, 01:54 AM

Naomi, why not this?

Why not just go inactive and do your own thing for a while?

You may want to come back and it's much simpler to return if you're still on our records.

What doctrines do you disagree with?

Maybe you are simply misunderstanding a few things, and once cleared up, you won't feel the same way anymore.

Actually I did go inactive for a while and did my own thing. I realized that being LDS was detrimental to my health, family and soul. YMMV.

[naomi]

Originally posted by lindy9556+Jun 10 2004, 12:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lindy9556 @ Jun 10 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--lindy9556@Jun 5 2004, 12:40 AM

Leaving something you had special in your life is always a hard thing to do...I wish you luck in finding what you need in your life.

Keep faith in what is important to you...you'll be ok.

Naomi~

I still stick to the above quote I left for you at the start of this thread....I don't have any hard feelings toward you, don't think you are a troll or the like, like we had in the past; I think you are sincere in your choice to leave.

It was wrong of me to post that to Ruthie....I should have PM'd her with it...and I do apologize....it wasn't to defame you...just to let her know what has happened here in the past.

My bad

Sorry,

Lindy

PS.... remember that you can still have friends that are LDS....a difference in opinion shouldn't deter friendship.

Thanks Lindy! I appreciate the comment. It sort of was received a bit wrong. The quote is excellent and it is my goal.

[Snow]

Originally posted by naomi@Jun 10 2004, 09:23 PM

Actually I did go inactive for a while and did my own thing. I realized that being LDS was detrimental to my health, family and soul. YMMV.

I know, I know...

Have faith in God, obey his commandments, walk in paths of righteousness, live a moral life, put your family first....

It's all so damaging, really, what could be worse.

It's never our fault... it always someone else's fault.

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Snow+Jun 11 2004, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jun 11 2004, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--naomi@Jun 10 2004, 09:23 PM

Actually I did go inactive for a while and did my own thing.  I realized that being LDS was detrimental to my health, family and soul.  YMMV.

I know, I know...

Have faith in God, obey his commandments, walk in paths of righteousness, live a moral life, put your family first....

It's all so damaging, really, what could be worse.

It's never our fault... it always someone else's fault.

I don't think BEING LDS is detrimental to your health, family, etc. But if you remain active even though you don't believe... that can cause problems. Of course some people are fine with it.

[Ray]

Have faith in God, obey his commandments, walk in paths of righteousness, live a moral life, put your family first....

I think most people will say they have faith in God, but some of those people still have a problem knowing how to know whether or not commandments come from God, whether or not things are conducive to the path of righteousness and morality, and what it means to “put your family first”.

If a person doesn’t receive personal assurance from God to help them know the truth about something, they’re relying only upon their own reasoning to know whether or not commandments come from God, and whether or not things are conducive to the path of righteousness and morality. Some people will say that we’re supposed to rely only upon the words written in certain books, but putting our trust in our understanding of the writings in certain books is not the same as putting our trust in God and relying upon Him to guide us.

In knowing what it means to “put your family first”, we should remember that we are expected to do things for other people. This includes doing things in the Church, to help establish and strengthen the kingdom of God on Earth. Some people complain about spending a certain amount of time focused in the work they are called to do in the Church, because they would rather have more time with their families. But are we to focus on our families so much that we neglect to do things for other people? If not, how do we determine how much time we should spend in our callings? For this, too, we need to rely upon God for an assurance that we are doing enough, to balance our time between the needs of our family and the needs of other people the Lord expects us to help.

[Jason]

"Why not just go inactive and do your own thing for a while?

You may want to come back and it's much simpler to return if you're still on our records."

Inactivity is for the mentally lazy. Make up your mind and do it. That's the only way to live.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Jun 11 2004, 09:15 AM

"Why not just go inactive and do your own thing for a while?

You may want to come back and it's much simpler to return if you're still on our records."

Inactivity is for the mentally lazy. Make up your mind and do it. That's the only way to live.

So, have you done it, Jason?

[Jason]

oh yeah. My offical resignation was received and quickly processed in march of 2003.

[Lindy]

Good Post Ray

We are still here for you Jason

Shanstress...

I don't think BEING LDS is detrimental to your health, family, etc. But if you remain active even though you don't believe... that can cause problems. Of course some people are fine with it.

Good statement....

YES TS you are "some people" :)

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by lindy9556@Jun 11 2004, 12:59 PM

Good Post Ray

We are still here for you Jason

Shanstress...

I don't think BEING LDS is detrimental to your health, family, etc. But if you remain active even though you don't believe... that can cause problems. Of course some people are fine with it.

Good statement....

YES TS you are "some people" :)

Lindy... how'd you know I was talking about him?

Actually, I know of MANY others who are in a similar situation.

[Tr2]

I think most people will say they have faith in God

Yes, most people do say that. However if you speak to most people about their faith in God you will find that they have faith in the God that they have been told about, having no experience of their own.

I cannot count the number of mormons who have faith in Joseph Smith's God, and not their own. The same goes for those who follow Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, etc. They follow a god that another person has met. Only in religious circles are people this silly.

Unless you have examples from your own life that have brought you to where you are, you are believing in somebody else's God. The Nicene creed doesn't incidate that you follow God, nor does the LDS testimony because both are simply statements of belief that require no experiential belief in God to say.

Would you marry somebody that you had no experience in, but believes was real? Of course not, you commit to those that you have real life experience with. I'd say this probably defines at least 75% of all those in religious circles, and that is a generous figure. It's probably higher.

[Guest Unorthodox]

bye

[Ray]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 11 2004, 12:15 PM

I think most people will say they have faith in God

Yes, most people do say that. However if you speak to most people about their faith in God you will find that they have faith in the God that they have been told about, having no experience of their own.

I cannot count the number of mormons who have faith in Joseph Smith's God, and not their own. The same goes for those who follow Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, etc. They follow a god that another person has met. Only in religious circles are people this silly.

Unless you have examples from your own life that have brought you to where you are, you are believing in somebody else's God. The Nicene creed doesn't incidate that you follow God, nor does the LDS testimony because both are simply statements of belief that require no experiential belief in God to say.

Would you marry somebody that you had no experience in, but believes was real? Of course not, you commit to those that you have real life experience with. I'd say this probably defines at least 75% of all those in religious circles, and that is a generous figure. It's probably higher.

Heh, I’m not sure that I understand you correctly, but if I do understand you correctly, it seems that you are wrong. LDS people are amongst the people who testify that they do have an experience of their own, which is basically what a testimony signifies. We state that we know, and that we know because God has assured us of something. You can still not agree with that, but you should at least acknowledge that we are testifying to what we know, for ourselves.

In other words, I’m not relying on the testimony of Joseph Smith, and most other LDS aren’t either. The testimony of Joseph Smith simply gave me some information to investigate, and after investigating, I now testify that I know for myself that what Joseph Smith said about certain things was and/or is true. More specifically, I know that the Book of Mormon was inspired by God, and I know this because God has assured me it is true.

Get it now?

Now tell me, why do you believe what you believe?