Common mis-quotations in the Church

[rameumptom]

You just used a big word on me. I had to look it up. :)

What's it anachronistic in comparison to?

Most LDS scholars do not see Capt Moroni or Helaman sitting upon a horse, or that they would be dressed as they are.

Most would dress them in Maya-like war gear. Their swords would probably not be of steel, but would have obsidian edges that could cut and tear easily through skin.

[tiancum]

I am a big fan of Hugh Nibley, Rameumtom.

He pretty much said the same thing...We are here for 2 reasons, to forgive and repent.

I believe this whole heartedly. I also believe that repentance is the only way to achieve an intimate relationship with the Savior and gain a personal, first hand witness.

I know that in my own life, the Lord shows me my weaknesses....gently and then i have the choice to take them to him and repent, and have him heal me. I wish i was better at it.

[Hemidakota]

Here is my "highly opinionated" short list of some common scriptural misquotations or mis-interpretations in the Church which have bothered me for years. There are others, but these are a start. Feel free to add to these.

1. D&C 82:3 (also Luke 12:48)

Incorrect: For of him unto whom much is given, much is ... 'expected'.

Correct: For of him unto whom much is given much is required;

This quote bothers me, because there is a distinction between expectations and requirements. The distinction being, that expectations are unwritten benchmarks held in he mind. Because they are not written, they are not clear, and they cannot be sufficiently met to the satisfaction of the expectation setter. Like a spouse who struggles to meet the imagined and undefined expectation of the husband or wife.

Requirements are clearly set benchmarks that are spoken or written, and can therefore be understood, and attained to the proof and satisfaction of all.

God has not given us vague expectations, but has written his requirements and commandments for all to read, and these requirements are the same for all.

2. Matt 7:1 (and 2)

Incorrect: "Judge not that ye be not judged."

This often leads to an incorrect interpretation when it is ended at this point.

Correct: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

This one is obvious to most. Since we are commanded to discern between good and evil, this is not an injunction cease from judging between what is morally right and wrong. The second verse shows the correct context, that we are to employ "righteous" judgment, so that a righteous judgment may be passed upon us.(See Alma 41:14)

3. Mark 10: 25-26

Incorrect: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

The error is in stopping the quote at this point, excluding verse 26.

Correct: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

Verse 26 is why I don't believe that this scripture is referring to some gate that camels had to crawl through with packages removed, in order to enter the city...a notion commonly held in the Church. Hugh Nibley called this notion a middle-aged invention for the purpose of soothing the consciences of the 'well-heeled' within some priest's congregation.

Why would the apostles be 'astonished out of measure' if this camel/gate thing was what Jesus was referring to?

4. Incorrect: "Thou shalt Love thy Neighbour as Thyself."

This is incorrect insofar as people take it as a command to love ourselves by "looking out for no. 1", and making ourselves the greatest priority in life. This scripture gets mingled with the Pop-Psychology nonsense which says that we cannot properly love others unless we first learn to love ourselves. In my mind, this philosophy of Man has produced a generation of individuals who think that the pathway to self-esteem and happiness begins with self-service, and adornment.

This does not seem scriptural to me. We are told in the scriptures that when we self-seek, we lose our life, but when we lose our life in the God's cause, we find ourselves. (See D&C 98:13)

Our degree of self-love, (whether we love ourselves, or loath ourselves), should not be the model for how we love others. IMO.

Finally, one must ask: "Who was Jesus speaking to? An audience with low self esteem, or an audience who had no problem already loving themselves?"

More Correct: "As I have loved you, love one another" (This puts Jesus as the Model)

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" (a 'new' commandment as Jesus calls it.) (John 13:34)

And a combination hybrid: "Love your neighbor, as you would want your neighbor to love you." This sets a standard based on an ideal.

Others are welcome to add additional scriptural misquotations, and misinterpretations as you see them.

Eye of the needle - smaller gate door [within the larger gate door panel] only used after dark hours to allow single individuals threw the passage way to enter therein. I still can't see how a Carmel could fit through that gate.

[FigBearingThistle]

Most LDS scholars do not see Capt Moroni or Helaman sitting upon a horse, or that they would be dressed as they are.

Most would dress them in Maya-like war gear. Their swords would probably not be of steel, but would have obsidian edges that could cut and tear easily through skin.

I think there may be some peer-pressured-intellectualism creeping in with some of these scholars. They are either frustrated that swords, horses, and chariot wheels haven't been unearthed, or they are preparing others for the possibility that such things wont be found in their lifetime.

Personally, the mention of breastplates and swords cankered with rust (Mosiah 8:10-11) tells me that these things actually existed, and it is a testimony to me that cultures and civilizations can deteriorate and regress with apostasy and wickedness. I think we all saw this with the dark ages.

As for the picture, it may not be wholly accurate, but accuracy is not the reason I like it. It means something to me that goes beyond the accuracy of the painting.

[Hemidakota]

Or what happen to the Elephants, Cureloms, and Cumons?

My brother in-law, once a Seventy in the Church, asked the very same questiion what ever happen to the Horses noted in the BOM.

XXXXX. now on to the horses (Equus), were present in the western hemisphere long ago prior to the Spaniards arrival. It has been assumed that they did not survive the time when settled peoples inhabited the New World; referring to the Jaredites and Lamanites. Pete, do you know that actual horse bones have been found in a number of Yucatan Peninsula archaeological sites; noting one of those finding artifact was buried six feet beneath the surface? XXXXXX, you may remember the word Chariot was used in the Book of Mormon (read Alma 20; 3 Nephi 20) used as a pulling vehicle? Thus, we simply do not understand what might have been the nature of the "chariot" mentioned in the Book of Mormon in connection with "horses."

Alma 20:6 - Now when Lamoni had heard this he caused that his servants should make ready his horses and his chariots.

3 Nephi 20:22 - And it came to pass in the *seventeenth year, in the latter end of the year, the proclamation of Lachoneus had gone forth throughout all the face of the land, and they had taken their horses, and their chariots, and their cattle, and all their flocks, and their herds, and their grain, and all their substance, and did march forth by thousands and by tens of thousands, until they had all gone forth to the place which had been appointed that they should gather themselves together, to defend themselves against their enemies.

XXXXXX, there is only two references that mentions this combination of both horse and chariot in the Book of Mormon and was found in the area of between Zarahemla and Bountiful. Perhaps, this type of mode of transportation may have not been widely used as to other cultures of the old world. When it comes to studying the Book of Mormon, we need always to be mindful of the author’s viewpoint, location of event, what is being presented, why it is being presented, and can it be cross referenced outside of that location.

Another tidbit of information is the war between the Gadianton Robbers who were cut off from the local food source as indicated in 3 Nephi 4:4, it reads:

Therefore, there was no chance for the robbers to plunder and to obtain food, save it were to come up in open battle against the Nephites; and the Nephites being in one body, and having so great a number, and having reserved for themselves provisions, and horses and cattle, and flocks of every kind, that they might subsist for the space of seven years, in the which time they did hope to destroy the robbers from off the face of the land; and thus the eighteenth year did pass away.

Gadianton Robbers subsisted upon others live stock for food. There were numerous as much as the Nephites. Perhaps some animals may have met their fate at their hands and perished from the land. Clearly, from the verse, you can see the Nephites under these harsh conditions that lasted for more than seven years used horses as a food source.

Another case in point, Eurasian sheep is not supposed to have been in pre-Columbian America either. Someone forgot to tell the historians that real sheep's wool was found in a burial site at Cholula, Puebla, Mexico. Analysis of this archaeological setting gave no other indication of dating after the Spaniards arrival in the area.

[FigBearingThistle]

Or what happen to the Elephants, Cureloms, and Cumons?

My brother in-law, once a Seventy in the Church, asked the very same question what ever happened to the Horses noted in the BOM.

U.N. scientists estimate that about 100 species become extinct every day throughout the world. I don't know what happened to the horses in the Book of Mormon, or the elephants from the Book of Ether.

The BoM does not indicate that they were widely used, or a big part of their day to day living.

Cureloms and Cumons aren't exactly terms that our modern culture is familiar with.

My theory is that cultures and civilizations sometimes regress and degenerate. Such happened during the dark ages in Europe. I think that many animals were hunted to extinction in order to support large populations during times of famine, and war.

A helpful hint: While you are reading this message, look at the top right of the screen for "display modes" Choose threaded mode, and it will be easier to see who is replying to what.

Thanks.

[rameumptom]

I think there may be some peer-pressured-intellectualism creeping in with some of these scholars. They are either frustrated that swords, horses, and chariot wheels haven't been unearthed, or they are preparing others for the possibility that such things wont be found in their lifetime.

Personally, the mention of breastplates and swords cankered with rust (Mosiah 8:10-11) tells me that these things actually existed, and it is a testimony to me that cultures and civilizations can deteriorate and regress with apostasy and wickedness. I think we all saw this with the dark ages.

As for the picture, it may not be wholly accurate, but accuracy is not the reason I like it. It means something to me that goes beyond the accuracy of the painting.

Don't forget that the rusty swords noted in Mosiah 8 were the remnants of the destroyed Jaredites. It was common for the leaders to have the better computers, while the warriors held lower quality weapons. It may be that only a few quality weapons and breastplates were brought back to Limhi, as evidence of the destructions.

And I also like the painting. I just enjoy the side issue of anachronism as a joke.

[Flyonthewall]

Don't forget that the rusty swords noted in Mosiah 8 were the remnants of the destroyed Jaredites. It was common for the leaders to have the better computers, while the warriors held lower quality weapons. It may be that only a few quality weapons and breastplates were brought back to Limhi, as evidence of the destructions.

And I also like the painting. I just enjoy the side issue of anachronism as a joke.

I take it this was the side joke of anachronism? Or maybe I missed something.

[Hemidakota]

Don't forget that the rusty swords noted in Mosiah 8 were the remnants of the destroyed Jaredites. It was common for the leaders to have the better computers, while the warriors held lower quality weapons. It may be that only a few quality weapons and breastplates were brought back to Limhi, as evidence of the destructions.

And I also like the painting. I just enjoy the side issue of anachronism as a joke.

I like to know how tall the Jaredites were, noting the oversize breastplates. I need some of that DNA sample.

[rameumptom]

Okay, so I'm trying to multi-task here. Don't forget that "computer" and "sword" both have an "O" and an "R", so I was only partially off.

I've found at my age that when I'm working at my peak, I can multi-task 1/2 a job at a time.....

[checkerboy]

K just thought I would throw my two cents in regarding horses and elephants. First I have a picture that I can provide for anyone from the Ft. Worth Zoo that talks about how there was a species of elephant that existed in the Americas until approximately 600 AD. Now I know that that isn't the most scientific evidence but it is a start.

On to horses.

Robert Dudley published a book, "Arcano del Mare" in 1630 in which he states that Sir Francis Drake observed herds of wild horses near San Francisco when he stopped there in 1579. As the Spanish had not made it that far up the continent yet the only possible explaination would be that these horses had been there before.

I found this information in the book "Life of Nephi," by George Q. Cannon.

[prisonchaplain]

Maybe the most famous scripture misquotation is: God helps those who help themselves. It's not in scripture at all. :-)

[Hemidakota]

That popular axiom reminds me of Psalms 127: 1 " Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it:..."

Another Phil 2:13, Phil 4:13, Acts 17:28..

[FigBearingThistle]

Maybe the most famous scripture misquotation is: God helps those who help themselves. It's not in scripture at all. :-)

Speaking of non-scriptures quoted as scripture, how about "I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it." (presumably a quotation from God telling us that being born, living, and dying would be worth it.) It almost sounds like a sales commercial to me.

[tiancum]

Yea< i hate that saying. Figbearingthistle

It's so trite.

I have seen it used almost as a quick fix by those that saw another suffering. it almost degrades the pain the other is going through.

[tiancum]

(on a side note about horses, elephants etc)

There are ancient paintings depicting horses, so I am sure they were there. Just because we haven't discovered it yet doesn't mean it wasn't there.

As for obsidian weaponry...for sure at a point of degeneration for the nephites/lamanites they were not capable of smelting, when the secret combinations had taken over, and they were sacrificing humans and doing other "unspeakable things"

I am sure, when the nephites were close to the Lord, they flourished and had many technological advances that would surprise us. The Lord himself taught nephi how to smelt and make steel. (yes I believe they had STEEL, like the book says) I get the feeling that we are reinventing the wheel many times.

In 2k years, what will be left of our civilization? none of the metals for sure. except for gold and non corrosive metals. even stainless steel corrodes. There will be no blacktop left an unkempt road disintegrates in less than 10 years. Most of the cement structures will have disintegrated, only our stone structures and maybe some plastics will survive, buried beneath 2k years of dust, dirt, etc.

[FigBearingThistle]

Yea< i hate that saying. Figbearingthistle

It's so trite.

I have seen it used almost as a quick fix by those that saw another suffering. it almost degrades the pain the other is going through.

Exactly. I despise it too for the same reason. Like a cheap sales slogan.

[Elgama]

Yea< i hate that saying. Figbearingthistle

It's so trite.

I have seen it used almost as a quick fix by those that saw another suffering. it almost degrades the pain the other is going through.

it may feel degrading but it is true - it is worth it and life ain't easy.

-Charley

[WillowTheWhisp]

Speaking of non-scriptures quoted as scripture.............

My Gran always used to say "Cleanliness is next to Godliness." - I used to quote Martha and Mary back to her!

[Elgama]

My Gran always used to say "Cleanliness is next to Godliness." - I used to quote Martha and Mary back to her!

LOL this is slightly off topic but reminds me of my Gran's you have to suffer to be beautiful and I would tell her I would rather be ugly

-Charley