The Harmful Effect Of Mormonanity

[Snow]

I realized that being LDS was detrimental to my health, family and soul.

Recently a poster, who asked her membership to be withdrawn from the records of the Church, told us about how harmful LDSitude was her well-being. It is a refrain heard regularly among those who become antagonistically disaffected with the Church. I have no idea what Naomi is referring to in her own particular case, and I would think that because the Church, any church is made of of human beings, there could be some real offense by another or my a local leader that could possibly have upset someone. But, in general and actual practice, is there something about the Church that is truly detrimental to the health, family and soul of it's members?

My personal take is that some people can't accept responsibility for their own thoughts and actions and out of weakness, make themselves a victim. IT happened to me. THEY did this to me. SOMETHING besides my own behavior and thoughts causes me unhappiness. I am not an agent unto myself but rather am acted upon...

Take the bit about health: find me a healthier Church?

Take the bit about family: find me a family-friendlier Church?

Take the bit about soul: even if you don't buy the restoration angel, Mormons do what even non-Mormons believe is the single requirement for salvation of the soul - accepting Christ as their Savior.

If anyone can tell be what about the Church is harmful, I'd be very impressed... but I'm not hold my non-victimized breath.

[Rodney]

As a rule, victims don't usually end up in prison. It's generally populated by perpetrators. You are no victim. You are a willing member of Mormon prison. Happy trails to you and all your jolly fellow inmates.

[Nicodemus]

Well that ignored the question and it had nothing positive to offer, but mostly, it ignored the question.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Nicodemus@Jun 13 2004, 06:41 PM

Well that ignored the question and it had nothing positive to offer, but mostly, it ignored the question.

You can tell a dog not to eat its own feces, my friend, but does it listen?

[Eros Augustus]

You can hope for an intellegent reply from Rodney but will it happen?

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Eros Augustus@Jun 13 2004, 06:56 PM

You can hope for an intellegent reply from Rodney but will it happen?

No. I don't know what an "intellegent" reply is. But then, a further question might be: Why would anyone bother hoping anything from an idiot such as I?

[Setheus]

Truer words were never spoken.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Setheus@Jun 13 2004, 07:15 PM

Truer words were never spoken.

Paradoxical, isn't it?

[StrawberryFields]

Originally posted by Rodney+Jun 13 2004, 07:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Jun 13 2004, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Eros Augustus@Jun 13 2004, 06:56 PM

You can hope for an intellegent reply from Rodney but will it happen?

No. I don't know what an "intellegent" reply is. But then, a further question might be: Why would anyone bother hoping anything from an idiot such as I?

Interesting...

[Nicodemus]

Ok, now I see two avatars on this thread alone from Interview with a Vampire, a rated R movie. I just saw another avatar from Fight Club, a rated R movie.

Why are such avatars endorsed here? although, the TV edited versions were pretty good. I didn't like Brad Pitt too much in the former movie but Tom Cruise is becoming a better actor with each movie he does, I think. His last one, the Last Samurai, ROCKED!!

[Nicodemus]

Originally posted by Rodney+Jun 13 2004, 07:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Jun 13 2004, 07:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Setheus@Jun 13 2004, 07:15 PM

Truer words were never spoken.

Paradoxical, isn't it?

Yes, but consider the aardvark.

In spelling, it's name contains two "a"s.

[Faerie]

Originally posted by Nicodemus@Jun 13 2004, 11:39 PM

Ok, now I see two avatars on this thread alone from Interview with a Vampire, a rated R movie. I just saw another avatar from Fight Club, a rated R movie.

Why are such avatars endorsed here? although, the TV edited versions were pretty good. I didn't like Brad Pitt too much in the former movie but Tom Cruise is becoming a better actor with each movie he does, I think. His last one, the Last Samurai, ROCKED!!

ok Nic...it's called a "chill pill"..they're not pornographic or satanic..i think we'll get over the movie ratings...

[Nicodemus]

Originally posted by Faerie@Jun 13 2004, 09:46 PM

ok Nic...it's called a "chill pill"..

OOHH... the """chill""" pill. LOL!

I've heard of a bunch of other pills, but I haven't tried THAT one. Maybe I've been talking to the wrong people.

:) Jk.

[Faerie]

just letting ya know you need to lighten up is all lol

[Jason]

Snow,

I may try and attempt to make a reasonable answer (at least reasonable to me).

"But, in general and actual practice, is there something about the Church that is truly detrimental to the health, family and soul of it's members?"

There may be some argument to the idea that the Church can be emotionally draining and therefore damaging to the health of an individual. Few churches that I have attended have anywhere near as much peer pressure to conform and perform. For example, tonight my family had a nice BBQ over at my dad's house. My brother-in-law had to leave fairly early to go "home teaching". He didn't want to go home teaching, nor does he care about it. But his EQP and his new companion put the pressure on him to be a "righteous" man by leaving his family and visiting others.

"My personal take is that some people can't accept responsibility for their own thoughts and actions and out of weakness, make themselves a victim. IT happened to me. THEY did this to me. SOMETHING besides my own behavior and thoughts causes me unhappiness. I am not an agent unto myself but rather am acted upon..."

Again, I think that those who feel this way do so because of the tremendous feeling of liberation when one has left the church. When one is left to make decisions on their own, without the leadership and membership directing them, one begins to feel like they have been picked on. (My take on it anyway.)

"Take the bit about health: find me a healthier Church?"

Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovah's Witness come to mind.

"Take the bit about family: find me a family-friendlier Church?"

Are we talking "per capita"?

"Take the bit about soul: even if you don't buy the restoration angel, Mormons do what even non-Mormons believe is the single requirement for salvation of the soul - accepting Christ as their Savior."

Again, when one can make their peace with God without someone else telling them how to do it, the experience becomes liberating.

"If anyone can tell be what about the Church is harmful, I'd be very impressed... but I'm not hold my non-victimized breath."

For the faithful who is used and willing to take orders, follow instructions, and stay in formation, there is nothing wrong. But, like the military, it's not for everyone. Some people thrive, while others become seriously damages physically and psychologically.

Jason

[shanstress70]

But, in general and actual practice, is there something about the Church that is truly detrimental to the health, family and soul of it's members?

I've heard lots of ex-members talk about how they wish their fathers would have spent more time with them instead of spending their time with church-related activities. My in-laws, while working in the temple every weekend, seemed to have little spare time to see any of their grandkids. They are no longer doing that job, so they have a bit more spare time to spend with family.

Then comes the issue of what happens to family bonds when someone leaves the church. Some families are OK with it, but it seems like things are never the same from the viewpoint of the family member who stays in the church. Mothers and fathers are heartbroken because, in their minds, the entire family won't be together in the hereafter. Even if you are only concerned with the effects the church has on its members, and not people who leave the church, they will no longer be together forever with their families, even if they do everything correctly and live righteously.

Then there is the guilt of not being able to measure up to expectations. Some people feel this.

One other example I can think of: Can you imagine if you were a woman who is infertile? Think of how many times you would be reminded of that fact. Basically, the church teaches that the woman's role in the whole eternal picture is to bear and raise children. I know that you all believe that the woman would be fertile in the hereafter, but there is pressure in the here and now. I know this from firsthand knowledge. I chose not to have a child until after 30. People just couldn't keep their nose out of mine and my husband's business!

I'm pretty sure you won't consider any of these valid reasons, Snow. But those are my opinions, and the opinions of many other former Mormons (and actually, probably a number of present members as well!).

[Faerie]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 14 2004, 07:25 AM

Then comes the issue of what happens to family bonds when someone leaves the church. Some families are OK with it, but it seems like things are never the same from the viewpoint of the family member who stays in the church. Mothers and fathers are heartbroken because, in their minds, the entire family won't be together in the hereafter. Even if you are only concerned with the effects the church has on its members, and not people who leave the church, they will no longer be together forever with their families, even if they do everything correctly and live righteously.

One other example I can think of: Can you imagine if you were a woman who is infertile? Think of how many times you would be reminded of that fact. Basically, the church teaches that the woman's role in the whole eternal picture is to bear and raise children. I know that you all believe that the woman would be fertile in the hereafter, but there is pressure in the here and now. I know this from firsthand knowledge. I chose not to have a child until after 30. People just couldn't keep their nose out of mine and my husband's business!

As the 2nd only active child in my family, I can truely attest that the non-activity and even excommunication of one sibling has had no impact on my family's relationships...sure, my mother prays every night that my brothers and sister will become active once more...but she loves them regardless of their church activity....me brother and i who are active do not look down on the other 4 siblings, we do not try and "save" them..we laugh, have fun, share in each other's lives and occassionally the church comes up and we have a really cool discussion about God and religion...

As far as being an "infertile woman" I can personally give you MY experience. I did not feel pressure from the members of my ward, I did not feel any sort of guilt because I was childless. I had support and upliftment and love from each and every member at church. It made my trial easier. Sure, it hurt...it hurt to go to the mall and see women w/ children...made no diffference WHERE I was, it was hard to be around something I wanted SO badly...but the wonderful, wonderful blessing of being an LDS woman who was infertile was this: I received many Priesthood Blessings that promised me that I would be comforted, that I would be a mother in my own time. I also had my Patriarchal Blessing which promised me that I would be a Mother in Zion. I knew that one day I would be blessed w/ a child, I just did not know HOW or WHEN. I had the wonderful option of Church adoption which is much cheaper than traditional private adoption. I even had a woman at church swear up and down that if she ever got pregnant again, that I could have her child.

So I don't think being Mormon has ever been detrimental to my health. I was told I would never conceive children, that my only option was either Invitro Fertilization or adoption. Here I am, 11 weeks pregnant and I did it w/ no fertility drugs, w/ no invasive procedures...I was blessed by the power of the Priesthood and had the faith and prayers of my husband and family...and I am now carrying around a miracle. I certainly know that not all women in the church who experience IF will be so blessed, but I've met quite a few who share stories similar to mine...and not one have I met who wasn't thankful for her IF trials...that it brought her closer to God, that it showed her patience, and that it showed the awesome power of faith and healing...

I personally think that it all depends on where you live, and what your ward is like.

[Setheus]

I don't think that my avatar is R rated. Just because the movie it came from was.

[shanstress70]

Well, it's gone now, Setheus!

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Faerie@Jun 14 2004, 09:29 AM

As the 2nd only active child in my family, I can truely attest that the non-activity and even excommunication of one sibling has had no impact on my family's relationships...sure, my mother prays every night that my brothers and sister will become active once more...but she loves them regardless of their church activity....me brother and i who are active do not look down on the other 4 siblings, we do not try and "save" them..we laugh, have fun, share in each other's lives and occassionally the church comes up and we have a really cool discussion about God and religion...

As far as being an "infertile woman" I can personally give you MY experience. I did not feel pressure from the members of my ward, I did not feel any sort of guilt because I was childless. I had support and upliftment and love from each and every member at church. It made my trial easier. Sure, it hurt...it hurt to go to the mall and see women w/ children...made no diffference WHERE I was, it was hard to be around something I wanted SO badly...but the wonderful, wonderful blessing of being an LDS woman who was infertile was this: I received many Priesthood Blessings that promised me that I would be comforted, that I would be a mother in my own time. I also had my Patriarchal Blessing which promised me that I would be a Mother in Zion. I knew that one day I would be blessed w/ a child, I just did not know HOW or WHEN. I had the wonderful option of Church adoption which is much cheaper than traditional private adoption. I even had a woman at church swear up and down that if she ever got pregnant again, that I could have her child.

So I don't think being Mormon has ever been detrimental to my health. I was told I would never conceive children, that my only option was either Invitro Fertilization or adoption. Here I am, 11 weeks pregnant and I did it w/ no fertility drugs, w/ no invasive procedures...I was blessed by the power of the Priesthood and had the faith and prayers of my husband and family...and I am now carrying around a miracle. I certainly know that not all women in the church who experience IF will be so blessed, but I've met quite a few who share stories similar to mine...and not one have I met who wasn't thankful for her IF trials...that it brought her closer to God, that it showed her patience, and that it showed the awesome power of faith and healing...

I personally think that it all depends on where you live, and what your ward is like.

I think you're right, Faerie, about it depending on what your ward is like.

You should be glad your family is still so close. I'm not saying that most families fall apart when someone leaves the church (although that happens sometimes), but by the very nature of it, there will be strain. Every Mormon wants to be with their family for eternity. If someone leaves the church, that dream is gone, in their eyes. It can cause much unhappiness. I don't want to get personal, but I'm sure your mother isn't as happy as she could be if all your siblings were members. This seems unfair to me, because in her mind she is going to be punished indirectly because her kids weren't members.

[sgallan]

You: Take the bit about health: find me a healthier Church?

Me: Demographically the Jewish religion I think. But otherwise, how about no church at all dependent on the family situation.

You: Take the bit about family: find me a family-friendlier Church?

Me: Family dependents but perhaps no church at all, with the additional note that unless all your family is in the church (extended family is very important in our life), it is not particularly condusive to family activities and closeness with those non-member families.

Otherwise, it is a pretty good religion for the above but tends to come with too much other baggage attached for those of us who are not particularly conservative.

[Guest Chell]

Originally posted by Setheus@Jun 14 2004, 02:47 PM

I don't think that my avatar is R rated. Just because the movie it came from was.

Weird, who is the avatar bandit?

[Tr2]

Funny that somebody's thoughts and feelings are not good enough for some.

Take the bit about health: find me a healthier Church?

In alphabetical order, by ZIP code, by city, or any church that you are not a part of or that people like you don't frequent.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Rodney@Jun 13 2004, 05:48 PM

You can tell a dog not to eat its own feces, my friend, but does it listen?

That depends on whether or not you use electro shock therapy with the dog.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by curvette+Jun 14 2004, 02:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Jun 14 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Rodney@Jun 13 2004, 05:48 PM

You can tell a dog not to eat its own feces, my friend, but does it listen?

That depends on whether or not you use electro shock therapy with the dog.

Quite right. But who, besides undergraduates at BYU, would stoop to such sadistic tactics?