Having Trouble with Our Practices

[NormalMormon]

First of all, hello! I'm new. That term is twofold, since I am a new member of the church and to this forum. I joined the church three years ago this April 26th and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I am 23 years old, a college grad, am married with no kids (yet), and am having some troubles with parts of the church that frustrate me. Dont get me wrong - there's pretty much nothing that could make me leave. I already know that it's the truest church on Earth. It's just that some things REALLY annoy me and I was hoping that you all could clear up my questions. I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but playing devil's advocate would be helpful on both our parts for the sake of understanding.

First: Why can't women hold the priesthood?

Second: Why do women have to wear a thing over their face to get married in the temple?

Third: Why can men get sealed to more than one woman (like after she dies) but women can't get sealed to more than one man? Rather, why can't we all just be sealed to ONE person only?

Fourth: Is it true that in order to get to the CK, BOTH men and women must be married in the temple? Or is that just true for women, and men can still go without a wife?

Yeah, these are all sort of "feminist" Q's - but they still need an answer!

[kona0197]

I watched a Mormon special on public broadcasting TV where a Woman said Woman can have the priesthood but the Church was holing it back. She was excommunicated. I don't know how true her claims are but I agree that as a Women being blessed with giving life to a child is a cool calling but that's not enough. There should be more.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Hello and welcome. :)

I'm sure someone will have better answers than I have but I'll give it a start:

First: The short answer is probably simply because Heavenly Father says so. I wouldn't personally want the responsibility anyway. I remember an elderly RS sister once telling me that the men have the priesthood and the women have the motherhood. We are co-creators with Heavely Father and that is as big a responsibility.

Second: I'm not too sure about this one because here in England we do things differently. We get married for 'time' in a chapel and then get sealed for eternity in the temple following that, usually on the same day if possible. It used to be common practice in church (any church not just ours) for the bride's face to be veiled until they were pronounced man and wife and then the husband would fold back her veil when the priest said 'you may now kiss the bride' There are some instances in the temple when women veil their faces and I believe this adds to a feeling of reverence.

Third: I suppose this relates to polygamy which is always the man being able to have more than one wife rather than the woman being able to have more than one husband. It just seems more logical to me that you could have more women in a household but only one patriarch. I wouldn't want more than one husband anyway. One is enough at once! I'm sealed to my first husband who died. My second husband knows this and he is not a church member. If he ever did join then he would be sealed to his late wife. Polygamy is Biblical but I'm hoping it's optional in the eternities.

Fourth: I think it applies to men as much as it applies to women. There needs to be the two who can progress to exaltation hopefully.

[MorningStar]

1. I think priesthood holders are meant to symbolize Jesus Christ. When He administered the sacrament to His apostles, He broke the bread, blessed it, and served it to them. When I see the sacrament being administered in church, I think of how if Jesus were there, He would do the whole process himself. For practical purposes, we have many male members participating, each having a role, allowing the processs to go faster. It makes sense to me for a man to represent Jesus Christ for symbolic purposes - not that women can't be Christlike. :) And this doesn't mean that women can't do amazing things through faith. My children have been healed as I prayed over them as they have receiving priesthood blessings.

Also, when it comes to speaking to the Bishop, he is also representing the Lord. As women in the church, we teach and serve in many callings, and I feel we shouldn't be coveting the priesthood because it is about service - not about being powerful. I care about benefiting from the priesthood, which I do. I have been healed through blessings, I am grateful to have been baptized, to receive my patriarchal blessing, and other things. It doesn't matter to me if it was a man or a woman - I just need those blessings. Also, having the priviledge of bearing children, bonding with them before they are even born, being the one to provide nourishment for them, etc., I love that my husband has special things that only he can do with the kids. It is wonderful to see him bless our babies, to baptize our first son, and for them to ask for a blessing when they are sick. I think it is a great bonding experience.

2. We don't wear a thing over our face when we get married. :) Although it has been tradition in the past in many types of marriages for the woman to unveil her face after the ceremony is over. We don't do that.

3. Women are sealed to everyone they were married to while they were living and I am told they will choose later who they want to be married to eternally. Apparently men will be able to have more than one wife for eternity, which follows the Bible, and is not something I understand (yet). It's not something I worry myself about because I have faith that Heavenly Father knows what He's doing.

4. Both men and women have to be married eternally to become exalted, which is to enter the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. Individuals may enter the Celestial Kingdom, but won't make it to the highest level. As one of our General Authorities put it (can't remember who), "One man plus one woman equals exaltation."

I hope some of that helped a little. Just remember, women rule.

[NormalMormon]

I think one day women should be able to have the priesthood. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for all the men out there who think that being "Christlike" means being literally - like him. If that were the case then the men in church wouldn't shave or cut their hair and wear rope sandals. We are supposed to be like him in spirit. Black people couldn't have the priesthood until recently, so tell me how it makes sense that women can't have it? We are just behind the times. Maybe God isn't prepared for women to have it, but it doesn't make sense otherwise. Maybe men just need a reason to be important since we are the ones who rear the children. Ha!

Polygamy is Biblical and Heavenly Father permits it when it is NEEDED. Which only makes sense if we are here on Earth. There is no need for polygamy in Heaven. So there isn't any reason why men should be able to be sealed to more than one woman unless she died and he wants to be sealed to his current wife. Same with women. Women whose husbands have died should be able to stay sealed to their current husband, and former husband who passed. If being sealed to someone is what it takes to become "exalted" then everyone should get that chance equally.

[Stampede]

First of all, hello! I'm new. That term is twofold, since I am a new member of the church and to this forum. I joined the church three years ago this April 26th and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I am 23 years old, a college grad, am married with no kids (yet), and am having some troubles with parts of the church that frustrate me. Dont get me wrong - there's pretty much nothing that could make me leave. I already know that it's the truest church on Earth. It's just that some things REALLY annoy me and I was hoping that you all could clear up my questions. I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but playing devil's advocate would be helpful on both our parts for the sake of understanding.

That's a wonderful thing and i am happy for you, i will try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.

First: Why can't women hold the priesthood?

This is an age old queston. I tend to think about it like this, without the priesthood, we would just be men, while mothers have motherhood and sisterhood and may other responsibilities that go with it. The priesthood brings us up to the same level that women already are at.

The priesthood is not "Power" it's not some gift bestowed upon us so that we can control thigs. It is a calling, and a requirement to serve. It is one of the biggest responsibilities and our salvation depends on it. If we fail to use our priesthood, abuse our priesthood, or misuse our priesthood authority. it is extremely detrimental to our salvation.

Second: Why do women have to wear a thing over their face to get married in the temple?

Certain things are traditions and certain things are ceremonial. as far as i know the viel over her face is a tradition, and not neccisarily a "requirement". the actual ceremony is the only requirement, the certain things said and the priesthood authority used. Those are the key components to the greatest blessing the temple has for us.

Third: Why can men get sealed to more than one woman (like after she dies) but women can't get sealed to more than one man? Rather, why can't we all just be sealed to ONE person only?

Poligamy was not a mistake, It has merely been suspended for a season. I do not know the particular reason this has not been changed but i now that it is that way for a reason. and that in the Lord's own due time all things will be revealed.

Fourth: Is it true that in order to get to the CK, BOTH men and women must be married in the temple? Or is that just true for women, and men can still go without a wife?

Yeah, these are all sort of "feminist" Q's - but they still need an answer!

The only way anyone can achieve exaltation in the celestial kingdom is to be married and sealed in the temple. otherwise those who did not abide the everlasting covenant will be ministering angels, and servants unto those who are deserving of a higher state.

Man + Woman = God.

Our father in heaven has a heavenly wife. and she is our heavenly mother.

[Stampede]

I think one day women should be able to have the priesthood. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for all the men out there who think that being "Christlike" means being literally - like him. If that were the case then the men in church wouldn't shave or cut their hair and wear rope sandals. We are supposed to be like him in spirit. Black people couldn't have the priesthood until recently, so tell me how it makes sense that women can't have it? We are just behind the times. Maybe God isn't prepared for women to have it, but it doesn't make sense otherwise. Maybe men just need a reason to be important since we are the ones who rear the children. Ha!

Polygamy is Biblical and Heavenly Father permits it when it is NEEDED. Which only makes sense if we are here on Earth. There is no need for polygamy in Heaven. So there isn't any reason why men should be able to be sealed to more than one woman unless she died and he wants to be sealed to his current wife. Same with women. Women whose husbands have died should be able to stay sealed to their current husband, and former husband who passed. If being sealed to someone is what it takes to become "exalted" then everyone should get that chance equally.

That will never happen.

women sealed int he temple to a worthy priesthood holder int hier own right to hold the priesthood. and they can call upon thier husband's preisthood through prayer to thier heavenly father.

a temple marriage is a marriage between 3 people, the bride, the groom, and christ. and he will not withold any blessings from those who seek him dilligently.

This is not to say that a woman can just go around giving blessings through her husband's priesthood, but rather ask the lord for blessing for those (like her family) who need it through her husband's priesthood authority through prayer.

Poligamy will not be needed in ehaven, and those who do not have the opportunity to be sealed int he temple in thsi life will have that opportunity extended to them for those who are worthy of recieveing it.

The ONLY place where marriages are valid in heaven IS in the Celestial Kingdom in the top tier.

all other places they are neither married nor given in marriage, and are ministering angels.

[MorningStar]

I think one day women should be able to have the priesthood. Yeah, it doesn't make sense for all the men out there who think that being "Christlike" means being literally - like him. If that were the case then the men in church wouldn't shave or cut their hair and wear rope sandals. We are supposed to be like him in spirit. Black people couldn't have the priesthood until recently, so tell me how it makes sense that women can't have it? We are just behind the times. Maybe God isn't prepared for women to have it, but it doesn't make sense otherwise. Maybe men just need a reason to be important since we are the ones who rear the children. Ha!

Polygamy is Biblical and Heavenly Father permits it when it is NEEDED. Which only makes sense if we are here on Earth. There is no need for polygamy in Heaven. So there isn't any reason why men should be able to be sealed to more than one woman unless she died and he wants to be sealed to his current wife. Same with women. Women whose husbands have died should be able to stay sealed to their current husband, and former husband who passed. If being sealed to someone is what it takes to become "exalted" then everyone should get that chance equally.

I don't know if women will ever hold the priesthood, but Christ being perfect, I would think He would've chosen some female apostles if that's the way it was meant to be. :)

[WillowTheWhisp]

Polygamy is Biblical and Heavenly Father permits it when it is NEEDED. Which only makes sense if we are here on Earth. There is no need for polygamy in Heaven. So there isn't any reason why men should be able to be sealed to more than one woman unless she died and he wants to be sealed to his current wife. Same with women. Women whose husbands have died should be able to stay sealed to their current husband, and former husband who passed. If being sealed to someone is what it takes to become "exalted" then everyone should get that chance equally.

When I was wondering about this once it occurred to me that maybe there will be more women than men in the Celestial Kingdom! Not saying that women are more spiritual than men but round this neck of the woods there always seem to be a lot more women than men in the church and a lot more women than men attending the temple, so maybe it will be needed!

[utcowboy]

I find it funny that you say we are out of date. Are we to change our teachings to satisfy the wimes of man?? How come the teachings that we don't agree with are always antiquited??

[utcowboy]

Willow, I think your on the right track. If you look at birth record and school enrollments, there are more girls then boys!! IMHO

[Misshalfway]

First of all, hello! I'm new. That term is twofold, since I am a new member of the church and to this forum. I joined the church three years ago this April 26th and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I am 23 years old, a college grad, am married with no kids (yet), and am having some troubles with parts of the church that frustrate me. Dont get me wrong - there's pretty much nothing that could make me leave. I already know that it's the truest church on Earth. It's just that some things REALLY annoy me and I was hoping that you all could clear up my questions. I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but playing devil's advocate would be helpful on both our parts for the sake of understanding.

First: Why can't women hold the priesthood?

Second: Why do women have to wear a thing over their face to get married in the temple?

Third: Why can men get sealed to more than one woman (like after she dies) but women can't get sealed to more than one man? Rather, why can't we all just be sealed to ONE person only?

Fourth: Is it true that in order to get to the CK, BOTH men and women must be married in the temple? Or is that just true for women, and men can still go without a wife?

Yeah, these are all sort of "feminist" Q's - but they still need an answer!

Hello. Here is my take......

1. The priesthood is a gift for both men and women. Both need it and enjoy the blessings from it. I have asked this question myself. And I know the brethren have spoken to this issue. If I get some time, I will do a search. But my feeling is that the men are given the priesthood as a stewardship... for the leadership of the church and the support of their families -- and the families of those without a priesthood holder in the home (widows, for example.) It isn't about power in the traditional tyrannical sense. The women have been given stewardship too, over childbearing and the home. To me, it is like the yin and the yang of how heavenly father has organized things. I think too often our world has oppressed women and as a result, women feel the need to compete with the men. I think that in the kingdom of heaven the divisions don't follow those norms.

2. I am with Morningstar. We don't veil our faces when we get married. I looked into my husbands baby blues and he looked straight into mine. There is a place in the temple ceremony where this happens. But, the answer to this question may better come from a priesthood leader near you.

3. It is not like the men 'can'... it is more like a woman may need to become sealed and the man she marries helps her attain that blessing. It is about the sealing ordinance and the promises of Abraham than it is about men getting more prestige over the women.

4. From what I understand, a woman that has not been married in this life may attain the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. But for men, they have a responsibility to get sealed on earth. So, in a way, the gals have it a little easier. The ultimate goal is that man and woman be joined and sealed and their children brought into that covenant as

well. And in the end, Heavenly Father will take care of ironing out all the complications and issues that arise here in earth life.

[Guest tomk]

Let me begin by saying this:

We are promised a fullness of JOY. We will not be moaning and complaining about our lot in the eternities. There will be no mistakes or oversights or corrections after the final judgement. We're being judged by a GOD. A God who knows us intimately, and who knows where and how we will be happiest, according to our actual desires in life.

Whatever "restrictions" or other "oddities" we encounter in THIS life that we do not currently understand WILL be explained to our complete satisfaction - AT SOME POINT.

Some of these things are a life-long test of our patience and faithfulness -- of our willingness to TRUST God until we can get those explanations.

Also, you can ASK GOD about these issues. You may not receive an answer that is for PUBLIC DISPLAY -- but God promises to respond and not upbraid!

First: Why can't women hold the priesthood?

I have wondered this as well.

Try this:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Unrighteous Dominion

Second: Why do women have to wear a thing over their face to get married in the temple?

Dunno. Next time you go to the temple, you should ask why. Not just when they get married, but also at other points in the endowment ceremony (am I mistaken?)

Remember the temple and the ceremonies are full of symbolism.

Third: Why can men get sealed to more than one woman (like after she dies) but women can't get sealed to more than one man? Rather, why can't we all just be sealed to ONE person only?

I don't know. My gut says because the Patriarchal order precludes it.

Because there are more women than men? They have every right to the same blessings as the men, and eternal marriage is required for entry into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom.

Fourth: Is it true that in order to get to the CK, BOTH men and women must be married in the temple? Or is that just true for women, and men can still go without a wife?

Eternal marriage is required for entry into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom.

For reasons I don't understand, some who are otherwise qualified for entry into the Celestial Kingdom will choose not to marry. They are not denied entry because of that, but choose to serve as angels to those who DO choose to have that blessing.

Nothing is EVER -- EVER -- forced upon us. We willingly receive the blessings we do ... and the consequences.

We are promised a fullness of JOY. We will not be moaning and complaining about our lot in the eternities. There will be no mistakes or oversights or corrections.

[Elgama]

I think problem is we know so much about Heavenly Father's eternal role, we know about Jesus - we know much less about what our eternal roll as Sisters is - I just trust that what we are taught is preparing us for what is ahead. It may be more Sisters are required in an eternal marriage because of what it is we are required to do through eternity.

-Charley

[WillowTheWhisp]

I've just had another thought about the different roles of men and women. Men don't give birth and we don't question that. It's just the natural order of things. I've never heard a man complain about that one.

[Guest tomk]

I once heard that one reason why Heavenly Mother is not mentioned by Heavenly Father is that we have more than one Heavenly Mother. So instead of getting into that with us, Heavenly Father has us focus on Him and the Son. We have enough to worry about without wondering "which Mother" is ours or getting into other strange practices.

But think about it. Does it make sense?

------------------

NOTE: This is pure speculation on my part.

No need to respond and correct me, since I just said it's speculation.

[NormalMormon]

Stampede - You cleared up the "women not being able to hold the priesthood" thing a little. I just find it hard to believe that pushing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a grape is a comprable blessing. *jk* In general women seem to be more righteous, which is perhaps why men need the priesthood. Like someone mentioned, many women seem to go to church more often and of course aren't often tempted by pornography and many other sins. I'm not really sure why this is. But as we all know, men in general seem to be the ones who sin more often. (This isn't specualtion, it's fact based on crime statistics.)

No one has yet answered the question of why men can still get sealed to more than one woman, and women can't do the same for deceased spouses.

And YES, it is possible that we are out of date. I firmly believe that God planned on allowing blacks to hold the priesthood long before the civil rights movement. God isn't racist. However, how would it have looked in society if we allowed them to be priesthood holders? Many people were racist, include those in the church. It was just a result of the society they were brought up in. But if for no reason, we all of a sudden accepted black as equals.... I don't know what would have happened. This may not be the case for women because society isn't "against" women. But it might be the case for homosexuals?

[NormalMormon]

I once heard that one reason why Heavenly Mother is not mentioned by Heavenly Father is that we have more than one Heavenly Mother. So instead of getting into that with us, Heavenly Father has us focus on Him and the Son. We have enough to worry about without wondering "which Mother" is ours or getting into other strange practices.

But think about it. Does it make sense?

------------------

NOTE: This is pure speculation on my part.

No need to respond and correct me, since I just said it's speculation.

I highly doubt our Heavenly Father has any need to be a polygamist.

[Stampede]

Stampede - You cleared up the "women not being able to hold the priesthood" thing a little. I just find it hard to believe that pushing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a grape is a comprable blessing. *jk* In general women seem to be more righteous, which is perhaps why men need the priesthood. Like someone mentioned, many women seem to go to church more often and of course aren't often tempted by pornography and many other sins. I'm not really sure why this is. But as we all know, men in general seem to be the ones who sin more often. (This isn't specualtion, it's fact based on crime statistics.)

No one has yet answered the question of why men can still get sealed to more than one woman, and women can't do the same for deceased spouses.

And YES, it is possible that we are out of date. I firmly believe that God planned on allowing blacks to hold the priesthood long before the civil rights movement. God isn't racist. However, how would it have looked in society if we allowed them to be priesthood holders? Many people were racist, include those in the church. It was just a result of the society they were brought up in. But if for no reason, we all of a sudden accepted black as equals.... I don't know what would have happened. This may not be the case for women because society isn't "against" women. But it might be the case for homosexuals?

I don't think that it will change, or that we are "out of date", because i do believe honestly that liek you said, men have a higher propensity to Sin. leaving many many women out int he cold without worthy husbands to be sealed to or married to. And whil ei think that things will work themselves out beyond the viel, i'm sure there will be some men and women who were married to someone who was not worthy of inheriting the celestial kingdom. these people should not be punished for thier spouses Descisions, but instead will be given to other worthy men or women who are in need of a companion.

[Guest tomk]

I highly doubt our Heavenly Father has any need to be a polygamist.

Why not? (just asking)

[NormalMormon]

Why not? (just asking)

Because God allows and calls for polygamy when it is NEEDED. Why would God need it?

[NormalMormon]

I don't think that it will change, or that we are "out of date", because i do believe honestly that liek you said, men have a higher propensity to Sin. leaving many many women out int he cold without worthy husbands to be sealed to or married to. And whil ei think that things will work themselves out beyond the viel, i'm sure there will be some men and women who were married to someone who was not worthy of inheriting the celestial kingdom. these people should not be punished for thier spouses Descisions, but instead will be given to other worthy men or women who are in need of a companion.

I find it wierd that I might be sealed to some random stranger because my husband is unrighteous. Sorry, I would rather kick it as a lonsome angel than be sealed to someone with a bunch of wives who I don't even know.

[Guest tomk]

Because God allows and calls for polygamy when it is NEEDED. Why would God need it?

Yes, why might God need it?

That is the question I am asking myself, and anyone else, to ponder. :)

[Guest tomk]

I find it wierd that I might be sealed to some random stranger because my husband is unrighteous. Sorry, I would rather kick it as a lonsome angel than be sealed to someone with a bunch of wives who I don't even know.

But we won't be strangers any longer:

I take some liberty with the following verse:

1 Cor. 13: 12

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; [THE VEIL] but then face to face: [VEIL REMOVED] now I know in part; [bECAUSE OF THE VEIL] but then [i shall] know [everyone] even as also I am known [by everyone]. [bECAUSE THE VEIL HAS BEEN REMOVED]

[skalenfehl]

Women are nurturers. If they had testosterone, then they'd have a propensity to be driven to grunt and break things and blow stuff up all the time, among other things. But they were created differently. They are sensitive and make perfect mothers. It's a beautiful thing. I believe this is why there are more good women than men. Most men are idiots. Okay, maybe not most, but an overwhelming number, I think.

As for the whole out of date and old fashioned thing...rubbish. The world is the same today as it was in the days of creation, the great flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. Man is just as evil, greedy, manipulative, lascivious and power hungry as ever. The only difference is today we have cars instead of chariots, jeans and t-shirts instead of animal skins and guns instead of spears and arrows. Man is just as divided today liberally and conservatively as in the days of old.