I Have Officially Resigned From The Mormon Church

[rameumptom]

This is simply untrue, just because your morality isn't judged by a bishop doesn't mean it isn't expected by God or the church you go too. Some churches believe that you can backslide and lose your salvation if you do such things as -- Dance, laugh too much, watch too much television, become engaged in to many worldly matters (i.e. financial success), wearing too much make-up, etc... Other churches heap on so much guilt that they have members that do things like fast for weeks, sleep on wooden boards, dedicate their life to the needy, remain celibate all of their lives, etc... Every Christian church I've ever been too preaches 10% or more in tithing as that command comes right out of the bible, they just don't have a man appointed by God that goes around checking to see if you pay it, it's up to God on judgment day to check if you payed your tithes. Mormons don't have a monopoly on morality.

Can you name the Christian churches wherein you can lose salvation by dancing? I know the Baptists used to frown on it, but it had nothing to do with losing salvation. Perhaps you aren't aware of how many churches in the USA there are today. Many of them ignore Biblical sins, embracing people and saying that God loves them too much to kick them out of heaven for Sin X. Others believe that all a person has to do is say they believe, or read a statement, and they are saved. In the USA, we have the Gospel of Wealth that is preached by many ministers, who focus on people getting wealthy, since they are already saved. And many of these occur in major Christian sects, not just the little ones in the backwoods.

Yes, there are some very moral Christian churches. But even among the major strains of Protestantism, there is a major struggle over determining what is sin and what isn't. Homosexuality and abortion are just two issues that come to mind that have literally split churches in half (Episcopelians, for example). In the past, issues like slavery have divided churches (Baptist).

Even for the conservative churches, many of them do not excommunicate people for adultery. It is always on the table for consideration in the LDS church for adultery. One can be in good standing in other Christian churches without teaching a Sunday School class, or becoming a Deacon or Elder. One is considered in good standing in the LDS Church if holding a temple recommend, fulfilling his callings, and doing his hometeaching regularly.

My boss is an Elder in his non-denominational Christian church, and I also work with a couple Baptists preachers. None think twice about shopping on Sunday after meeting. If I were to shop on Sunday, I'd have a severe guilt complex until I had repented and turned myself around. Worse, if other members were to see me out shopping, I know I would be setting a bad example for them.

[Vanhin]

Will Holly and all Christians be saved? I'm glad you believe they will be saved to the level of truth and righteousness each one embraces for him/herself. I don't believe this. I believe our righteousness and our works are nothing but filthy rags and to believe that someone could be saved to the level of truth and righteousness one can embrace for him/herself is nothing more then a lie satan would want us to believe. I have no righteousness none zilch nada.

Satan doesn't teach people that they must be righteous. I don't personally know anyone (besides you at this time) who teaches such a thing. Jesus Christ himself teaches that we must be righteous. It is something we do, in the process of the exercising true faith in the Savior and in His Atonement. Listen to the words of the Redeemer:

"19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:19-20)

With talk about different levels of "greatness" in the kingdom of heaven, it's pretty clear people will be rewarded for their level of righteousness, and further, they need to at least qualify above the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees to enter. Who teaches us to be righteous? Jesus Christ does!

"48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. " (Matt. 5:46)

What Satan puts in the hearts of men, is similar to what you are saying:

"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." (2 Nephi 28:8)

Just saying...

Regards,

Vanhin

[a-train]

JustMiss,

I think we all understand that the morality of God is a universal and bright standard to all. Each of us are challenged to do our best to be perfect even as He is. (Matt. 5:48).

The LDS people make no assertion that Christians around the world espouse a moral standard any lower than that we strive for. I have many non-LDS friends whose moral standing is a shining example of integrity and virtue. The issue that Ram is talking about is different from that.

He is talking about the work the LDS are called to do. We are called with a special duty, a sacred labor to perform. The vast majority of our less active members have no beef with the Church. Most of them believe the Book of Mormon is true, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and most importantly that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Eternal God. Most of them are moral and honest for the most part. Their trouble is not in doctrine, but in fulfilling the work they have been called to perform.

They are simply too involved, too entangled in the works and woes of temporal life to be active in the work. They have a house to clean, a car to fix, a lawn to mow, a job to do. They simply don't have time to study the scriptures, to worship in the temple, to worship in the chapel, to fast, to serve in a calling, to serve a mission, and so forth.

These activities are demanding. To be a Mormon does not mean simply to believe and be baptized and then go home. We have a tremendous mission from the LORD. Every member of the Church is called upon to be engaged in that work.

Worship in the temple, for example, takes time, preparation, and in many cases travel. The act itself is work.

Now salvation is not predicated on the number of times a man enters the temple, but we are not engaged in simply the work of our own salvation. Our mission is threefold: Proclaim the Gospel, Perfect the Saints, Redeem the Dead.

Our work is in the service of our fellow beings and it really is work. Many of us believe and in fact know that the LDS Church is the LORD's organization operating at His command, but we, like the young man in Matthew 19 who could not sell his possessions and follow the Saviour, go away sorrowful because we cannot give up the things of the world.

That young man was a moral man. Speaking of morality he said: 'All these things have I kept from my youth up.' The LORD and His Church are not asking for morality alone, He is asking for a broken heart and a contrite spirit. He is asking for that which the widow gave: 'she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.' (Mark 12:44)

We pass no judgement against those who cannot give all, like the young man. Our work is not to judge nor to offend. Our work is to heal and to bless. And healing cannot come without a proper diagnosis and an appropriate treatment.

The young man suffered the pain of sorrow, for which the LORD gave a good diagnosis and treatment. But the healing could not come when the treatment was refused.

To those who have come into this Church and have been given a witness of its truthfulness by the Holy Spirit, there can be no healing until the healing agent is applied. And after we enter into the labor and have such a testimony, if we do not work as directed it will be taken from us. 'For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.' (Matt 25:29)

-a-train

[MorningStar]

I just wanted to let you all know that about a week or so ago, I sent in my resignation letter to the Mormon headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah.

I have decided that I no longer wish to be a member of the Mormon Church and I totally understand all the "consequences" of resigning. I know that the effects of my baptism will be canceled and that any temple recommends I had will also be canceled but I didn't have any temple recommends. Even if I did, I wouldn't care if they were canceled.

I simply find myself no longer able to agree with the tenants of the Mormon faith. I have nothing against Mormons themselves. I only have something against what the Mormon church believes. The most important of which would be the unorthodox view of the Trinity that the Mormon church holds.

I hope that none of you will be angry with me for resigning my membership in the Mormon church and please know that I hold nothing against any of you. My decision to resign was not the result of anything anyone said on these forums or anything of that sort. It was a result of my own choosing.

The headquarters did mail me back and told me that my decision would have to be handled by local priesthood leaders. I did not know this at the time that I mailed my letter to the headquarters.

Anyway, may God bless you all and may you all someday find the truth which I personally do not believe is found in the Mormon church.

I'm not going to lie. It makes me sad when anyone leaves the church. I'm sorry to hear it.

[rameumptom]

Will Holly and all Christians be saved? I'm glad you believe they will be saved to the level of truth and righteousness each one embraces for him/herself. I don't believe this. I believe our righteousness and our works are nothing but filthy rags and to believe that someone could be saved to the level of truth and righteousness one can embrace for him/herself is nothing more then a lie satan would want us to believe. I have no righteousness none zilch nada. However the righteous that I will have is that which is imputed on me by Jesus when he washed me with his blood. After I die what will be seen of me will be Jesus' blood. That and only that will save me. Everyone is not saved. A Christian in name only isn't saved. Just because someone says they are Christian doesn't mean they are. There is a verse in the bible that says that many will call on the Lord and he will answer that He doesn't know them. Hell is a real place and not everyone is saved because Jesus died for our sins. Only those that accept His gift will be saved. He will not make anyone take that free gift.

I'm not an anti mormon but I will say when I believe you mis represent Christians and you clearly have.

And this is probably from your belief in original sin? Blake Ostler has a very good discussion on original sin in his second volume of Exploring Mormon Thought. You may want to check it out, as it does bring up some very good reasons why original sin and free will cannot work together. Is God just and good if he imposes upon us the sin done by another person? And if you are one that believes in predestination, then the problem falls in how we can be responsible for something that God imposed upon us.

I agree that hell is a real place. But I believe that "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoso believeth in him should not perish." Is it a good and loving God that condemns most of the world, simply because they have not had the chance to hear about Jesus? Millions were born in areas that still have not heard of the New Testament. LDS teaching gives all an opportunity to embrace God in a loving relationship. To the level we develop that relationship determines our glory. Keeping commandments is part and parcel of showing our faith and love for God - but we are not saved by them. Christ's command was "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which art in heaven is perfect." How can that ever be, if we are covered in original sin?

I haven't misrepresented other Christians. I do note that there are many varying beliefs in other Christian traditions, so that what I have said may not apply everywhere. Unfortunately, in speaking generally about a large group, there will be some inaccuracy in the generalizations. If I speak of blonde people, am I thinking platinum blondes, strawberry blondes, dishwater blondes, or bleached blondes? I may not accurately portray all blonde people with a generalized statement.

Among other Christians, one gets those who believe in original sin, and others who view it differently. Some think like St Augustine, who believed even little children who are not baptized will burn in hell, while others believe there must be some escape for them. RCCs believe in keeping the commandments as part of the need for salvation. Others see complete grace. Then there are those who seek a balance.

But righteousness DOES do us good, if it is based upon our faith. It opens us up to a greater portion of Jesus' grace and salvation. Otherwise, would you suggest we need to ignore or reject all of Jesus' teachings?

That verse you mention is the following:

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work cniquity.

24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Clearly, obedience and righteous works are important here. Jesus also told of dividing the sheep from the goats, telling them that he would bless those that did good works to those around them (I was hungry, and ye fed me....Inasmuch as ye have done this to the least of these, ye have done it unto me).

Can these works save us? No. But they help us BECOME like God, so that we can then be capable of receiving his grace. As the Lord taught Joseph Smith, we go from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace (D&C 93).

The two great commandments would be meaningless, if they weren't important enough for God to share them with us. The same with the other teachings of Jesus and his apostles that clearly explain the importance of becoming like God through obedience and faith. Otherwise, if all we have is faith, it is dead, having no works to back it up (James 2).

As for something being a lie that Satan would have us believe, can you provide the scriptural source for that statement? Otherwise, I'll consider it your own opinion. I do agree that we cannot save ourselves. I disagree with original sin, and that we cannot become like Christ is. Jesus himself said, "ye are gods." And Paul agreed when he called us "heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ." This tells me that we are of the same substance as they are; otherwise we could not become as they are and inherit what Jesus has inherited.

[JustMiss]

Satan doesn't teach people that they must be righteous. I don't personally know anyone (besides you at this time) who teaches such a thing. Jesus Christ himself teaches that we must be righteous. It is something we do, in the process of the exercising true faith in the Savior and in His Atonement. Listen to the words of the Redeemer:

"19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:19-20)

With talk about different levels of "greatness" in the kingdom of heaven, it's pretty clear people will be rewarded for their level of righteousness, and further, they need to at least qualify above the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees to enter. Who teaches us to be righteous? Jesus Christ does!

"48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. " (Matt. 5:46)

What Satan puts in the hearts of men, is similar to what you are saying:

"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." (2 Nephi 28:8)

Just saying...

Regards,

Vanhin

Satan doesn't teach people that they must be righteous. I don't personally know anyone (besides you at this time) who teaches such a thing.

I don't teach such a thing

Will Holly and all Christians be saved? I believe they will. Each will be saved to the level of truth and righteousness each one embraces for him/herself. Some embrace Christ much more than others - some serve, while others are Christian in name only. Each will be blessed for the level they accept to follow God. This concept was actually taught by the early Christian, Shepherd of Hermas, btw. He compared everyone to a branch, and according to the amount the branch grew and blossomed, determined that individual's glory in God's kingdom(s).

I was saying that the above is a lie that satan would have us to believe. I think satan would want us to believe that we will be saved to the level of truth and righteousness each on embraces for him/herself. <<< It's false and yes therefore he would love if we believed it. One of satans goals is to get us to believe false teachings. So I'm sorry if I didn't make my thoughts clear. We are not saved by what we embrace we are saved by the blood of Jesus. I am not a teacher and I didn't teach, that satan teaches people to be righteous. I do think satan would teach someone that something is righteous when it really isn't however, but I wasn't even say that.

What Satan puts in the hearts of men, is similar to what you are saying:

"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." (2 Nephi 28:8)

^^^^^^^^^^^^I didn't say this. I never said that it's ok to sin a little bit. But I do believe satan does tell people such lies. Sorry for the confusion.

[Vanhin]

I don't teach such a thing

I was saying that the above is a lie that satan would have us to believe. I think satan would want us to believe that we will be saved to the level of truth and righteousness each on embraces for him/herself. <<< It's false and yes therefore he would love if we believed it. One of satans goals is to get us to believe false teachings. So I'm sorry if I didn't make my thoughts clear. We are not saved by what we embrace we are saved by the blood of Jesus. I am not a teacher and I didn't teach, that satan teaches people to be righteous. I do think satan would teach someone that something is righteous when it really isn't however, but I wasn't even say that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^I didn't say this. I never said that it's ok to sin a little bit. But I do believe satan does tell people such lies. Sorry for the confusion.

Roger that! Point taken. Thank you for clarifying that.

Vanhin

[rameumptom]

A-train, thanks for clarifying for me.

Another thought, LDS belief is very different than classical Christianity, in that we believe we are of the same substance as God. We can become like Him and Christ. Literally. And therein lies a major difference in what we strive for. We don't keep the commandments in order to save ourselves. We keep the commandments and magnify callings in order to become like Christ, so that His grace can purify us to a greater extent.

Christ taught his disciples (John 17) and the Nephites (3 Ne 11, 2 Ne 31) that our goal is to become one with Christ and the Father. LDS teachings have it that almost all His children will be saved in a kingdom of glory. That kingdom will depend upon how much of Christ's grace they are willing and able to receive. Since we are God's literal spirit children, he truly loves us enough to give us as much heaven as we want to have. But many have focused on worldly things, and so their spirit is not well in tune with Christ, and would actually shrink in God's direct and continual presence (Alma 12, Mormon 9).

It is an issue of relationship. If we have sought through our lives to have a close relationship with God, we will have it in the next life. The more we become like Him, the more we will relate to Him. Since God is kind and benevolent, we would strive to be like him in being kind and benevolent. Since Jesus was baptized, we seek baptism also to follow in his footsteps. Since Jesus kept the commandments, we also seek to do so, in order to be like Him, so that when we see Him again, we will not stand in shame.

Holly, you and I will each gain a salvation based upon the amount of truth and light we embrace, in seeking to become like Christ and Father. That is how merciful God truly is.

[Andrew777]

Can you name the Christian churches wherein you can lose salvation by dancing? I know the Baptists used to frown on it, but it had nothing to do with losing salvation. Perhaps you aren't aware of how many churches in the USA there are today. Many of them ignore Biblical sins, embracing people and saying that God loves them too much to kick them out of heaven for Sin X. Others believe that all a person has to do is say they believe, or read a statement, and they are saved. In the USA, we have the Gospel of Wealth that is preached by many ministers, who focus on people getting wealthy, since they are already saved. And many of these occur in major Christian sects, not just the little ones in the backwoods.

Even for the conservative churches, many of them do not excommunicate people for adultery. It is always on the table for consideration in the LDS church for adultery. One can be in good standing in other Christian churches without teaching a Sunday School class, or becoming a Deacon or Elder. One is considered in good standing in the LDS Church if holding a temple recommend, fulfilling his callings, and doing his hometeaching regularly.

No, of course they don't excommunicate people for adultery, most Christians believe excommunication is God's job not man's job. Judge not lest ye be judged and all that scriptural stuff. Some Christian churches will remove people from positions of authority if they are living in sin, such as teaching Sunday School classes.

Perhaps you are unaware of the number of Christian churches in the world today. Many teach a holiness doctrine, this means you don't lose your salvation by dancing but it's one step on the road to losing your faith, backsliding and then losing your salvation. No church at all believes you have to just say something to be saved, that's an incredibly simplistic view of the theology of being saved through faith. The gospel of wealth, hmmm, two Sundays ago our bishop preached about how we should pray for and strive to be financially well off, as God wants us to be happy and blesses us for following his commandments (mostly tithing of course). As far as I know the LDS church teaches that almost all people will be saved irregardless of what they do in life, only a very few will go to outer darkness.

As for churches allowing homosexuality and other apostate practices they are in the minority, and the people within those churches usually disagree with each other over it. Some of those churches have many members who are no longer Christian in positions of authority i.e. Are agnostics/atheists and don't believe in salvation or any Christian doctrines such as a number of the members of the Episcopal church. You can't say LDS believe this then point to the FLDS or the Community of Christ as examples they are in the minority, just as you can't point out other Christians as moral slackers as they are in the minority also.

[Andrew777]

I haven't misrepresented other Christians. I do note that there are many varying beliefs in other Christian traditions, so that what I have said may not apply everywhere.

This discussion began because you implied people leave the church for other denominations not because God has convicted them or because they disapprove of LDS doctrine but because they're slackers that get it easier in other churches then in the extremely moral LDS church.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I've been a member of several other churches and attended many more and I can echo what Rameumpton said from my own experience. They were all a darned site easier to be a member of than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There was only one where the minister thought tithing would be a good idea but didn't think he'd ever be able to convince the congregation. All of the churches I've been to you can just passively sit there for an hour or so once a week and that's it. Nothing more is expected of most people. There are no adult classes so not many teachers required, just the few for the children's Sunday School. Everyone else did nothing but listen to the sermons and in some churches sing a few hymns, in some they didn't even do that. It is much more challenging to be LDS but it's worth it.

[Elgama]

its also a lot easier to get kicked out or rejected from some. Although to be fair most I attended did have adult bible study groups.

-Charley

[Andrew777]

I've been a member of several other churches and attended many more and I can echo what Rameumpton said from my own experience. They were all a darned site easier to be a member of than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There was only one where the minister thought tithing would be a good idea but didn't think he'd ever be able to convince the congregation. All of the churches I've been to you can just passively sit there for an hour or so once a week and that's it. Nothing more is expected of most people. There are no adult classes so not many teachers required, just the few for the children's Sunday School. Everyone else did nothing but listen to the sermons and in some churches sing a few hymns, in some they didn't even do that. It is much more challenging to be LDS but it's worth it.

I've been to many and I can say the exact opposite, I can remember wondering for hours as a child about the validity of my salvation. There were adult Sunday School classes at most of them, those ones at 7 in the morning when you're so tired you can barely think . I do admit most the churches I attended and respected came from the holiness tradition, if you don't know what that is those are the guys that wore the funny hats and were called puritans back in Joseph Smith's day. I also attended the Anglo-catholic church for two years, that's one where you spend a lot of your time praying that God doesn't crush you for your sins and the mass is mostly on your knees on a wooden bench.

The churches I did go to where you passively sit there didn't teach that and those members that took there faith seriously would live daily in faith and were taught to do that. If you passively sat there you weren't understanding the message of the sermons. If you thought going to church once a week was all that was needed you misunderstood the theology. As for tithing I think it's not a good idea to constantly push the idea it makes a pastor look bad, like it's all about money.

[rameumptom]

I've been to many and I can say the exact opposite, I can remember wondering for hours as a child about the validity of my salvation. There were adult Sunday School classes at most of them, those ones at 7 in the morning when you're so tired you can barely think . I do admit most the churches I attended and respected came from the holiness tradition, if you don't know what that is those are the guys that wore the funny hats and were called puritans back in Joseph Smith's day. I also attended the Anglo-catholic church for two years, that's one where you spend a lot of your time praying that God doesn't crush you for your sins and the mass is mostly on your knees on a wooden bench.

The churches I did go to where you passively sit there didn't teach that and those members that took there faith seriously would live daily in faith and were taught to do that. If you passively sat there you weren't understanding the message of the sermons. If you thought going to church once a week was all that was needed you misunderstood the theology. As for tithing I think it's not a good idea to constantly push the idea it makes a pastor look bad, like it's all about money.

I agree there are some very strict Christian sects. But in general, most are much more lenient than the LDS Church. And there are some that view God as a very stern and angry God, ready to toss lightening bolts down upon the sinner. Thankfully, Mormonism is about becoming like God - not an easy thing to do, but possible through the atonement of Christ - and developing a loving relationship with God.

[a-train]

Let it be understood that LDS excommunication is not a ban from Church meetings or fellowship. It is only a removal of priesthood office and covenants of priesthood ordinances.

-a-train

[Andrew777]

I agree there are some very strict Christian sects. But in general, most are much more lenient than the LDS Church. And there are some that view God as a very stern and angry God, ready to toss lightening bolts down upon the sinner. Thankfully, Mormonism is about becoming like God - not an easy thing to do, but possible through the atonement of Christ - and developing a loving relationship with God.

I still think you confuse the theology with the actions of the church members. Some churches will let you smoke and drink..but..if you break the chastity laws or never go to confession you'll be working off your sins in purgatory in pain and torment. Others it may sound like you only have to say a few words to attain salvation...but the reality is if you say those few words without meaning it and having a repentant heart, it ain't going to work, you can't trick God with words. Some churches you can lose your salvation through sinning and becoming apostate, then you'll be burning in a lake of fire for all eternity...how much less lenient can you get then that.

Sure there are churches where people slack off and don't take it seriously but the same can be said for the LDS church, I saw a member one Sunday that had his headphones plugged in for the whole service, it was disgusting I wondered why he even came. There are many churches where people don't understand the doctrines at all, some churches have members that just go to get away from the kids for a few hours during Sunday School. I've seen people on TV that my stepmother said are LDS members dressed up like whores on dancing competitions. I've seen members on Sunday with so much make up on you'd think they were heading off to the pub. Yes I'm a bit of a prude I don't even wear shorts.

Funny story -- when I did my interview before baptism the guy I spoke with asked me what faith tradition I came from, I told him and his response was, "We won't have to go through the commandments again then will we!", Oddly my old church has a doctrine called entire sanctification that is very close to the LDS doctrine of progression -- through living a holy life, listening to the holy spirit with Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross we can become sinless and perfect as Christ is. We can become like him.

[Abraham]

What is the difference from going from a Church with a false prophet (your words) to a church who has no prophet?

Abraham

[Dale]

I understand Evangelical churches do feel they have a prophet and that prophet is Jesus. They just do not see a need for an earthly president/prophet in the church.

Our prophet/president in the Community of Christ is Stephen Veazey. I read a lot of material that is supposed to convince me i am in a church with a false prophet. We get Anti-Community of Christ material also. A lot of what i read was directed at the one prophet LDS, and RLDS share in common Joseph Smith. A lot of it was directed at LDS prophets after Joseph Smith. All my reading from the critics did was to make me symphatetic to the modern prophets in question.

[HomeAgain]

I resigned, too, and I came back.

Everybody has to pursue their own path.

But I can't help but wonder why Holly is announcing her exit to LDS.NET ... It seems like RFM (exmormon.org) would be more the platform for such an announcment. The fact that Holly seems to have a trusting relationship with faithful participants on this board does lead me to think that she might have a subconscious connection to the church beyond her discordance with the doctrine of the trinity.

That's just my two cents.

Good luck, Holly.

[Jonathon]

I would like to chime in and say that I have observed the following in these threads:

1) Some very good discussion and support for someone who has used their free agency to choose a different path, albeit one that a majority who have posted would not choose.

2) A lot of, what I can only describe as, "ping pong."

Ping - Our church does things this way!

Pong - Well my church does it this way!

Ping - Your denomination of churches don't do it that way!

Pong - Yes we do!

Ping - I haven't seen you do it that way. I think we do it better!

Ok, Ok... So these words were not used exactly, but this is how this thread has left me feeling. Ping, Pong, Ping, Pong.

LDS Folks:

As I'm sure you are well aware, there are MANY churches and denominations of churches with members who feel that their church is the most perfect and that they do things the right and scriptural way. I have most recently been a part of a denomination of churches that resemble LDS Church culture in MANY ways. So much so that it has, after almost ten years OUT of the church, contributed to my re-investigation of the LDS Church. There is a focus on family, church service, and making church life central TO life. In fact, many people in this group of churches won't even move cities without consulting with their local pastor/bishop, even if it is for a job promotion.

However, just because another church does or does not do things the "LDS way" does not make it true, or for that matter, false. Truth will stand the test of culture, diverse doctrine, and time. God is the author of truth. If I understand correctly, according to the LDS Church, the Holy Ghost will give an assurance of THE truth as a person seeks the Lord through prayer, scripture study, etc., So what is the point in comparing your culture (the way you do things) as superior to another church? As an "outsider looking in," I just don't see the fruit of this ping pong match.

Likewise to those that are not Latter-day Saints:

How has it become so easy to assume that the LDS know nothing about other Christian "ways of life" and doctrine? As one who claims that your final authority rests on Christ, should not your communication be focused ON Christ and not on bringing other people down for not "understanding" your culture or system of belief?

It just seems we are focusing on so many peripherals here. I think both the LDS and evangelical Christians will agree that Jesus Christ is the foundation of faith. Therefore, let the light of Christ shine as we witness of Christ, even in our forum communications!

Stephen Covey (LDS incidentally) said something I love, and I think is very wise and Christ-like:

Seek first to understand and then to be understood!

If we could all really grasp that concept, we would not be as threatened when someone leaves our fold, nor be as defensive, when someone in the fold doesn't seem to grasp why we have left. It does not mean that we lose our convictions, stop our prayers, or compromise. It simply means we avoid unfruitful judgment.

Jonathon

[Elgama]

As I'm sure you are well aware, there are MANY churches and denominations of churches with members who feel that their church is the most perfect and that they do things the right and scriptural way. I have most recently been a part of a denomination of churches that resemble LDS Church culture in MANY ways. So much so that it has, after almost ten years OUT of the church, contributed to my re-investigation of the LDS Church. There is a focus on family, church service, and making church life central TO life. In fact, many people in this group of churches won't even move cities without consulting with their local pastor/bishop, even if it is for a job promotion.

However, just because another church does or does not do things the "LDS way" does not make it true, or for that matter, false. Truth will stand the test of culture, diverse doctrine, and time. God is the author of truth. If I understand correctly, according to the LDS Church, the Holy Ghost will give an assurance of THE truth as a person seeks the Lord through prayer, scripture study, etc., So what is the point in comparing your culture (the way you do things) as superior to another church? As an "outsider looking in," I just don't see the fruit of this ping pong match.

ok I agree there is no fruit in it - Holly is clearly sure she is where God wants her which is what is important.

I was baptised in 1992 but my testimony has always been I am where God wants me and I am on my way home, I wasn't sure it was where everyone needed to be which I guess is selfish I just knew it wasn't false and I needed it.

However since I wrote my post to Hayley my testimony has for the first time ever shifted hugely:

This talk last Saturday really hit me and for me the greatest evidence that yes this is the place to be is the way the Lord Honours the Priesthood Keys, that is something I see on a daily basis.

I do still struggle understanding Christians despite being brought home in a Christian home and schools. I find it much easier finding common goals with someone of another religion. When I talk about my Faith my way I tend to find Christians (not all many are amazing) - feel got at.

-Charley

[Holly3278]

Well everyone, I just thought I'd stop by to say that I am reconsidering Mormonism but I still have many questions. If anyone would be willing to chat with me in Windows Live Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, or AIM, I'd appreciate that.

[Elgama]

I can't chat as don't have a messenger I don't think but my email is [email protected] if you want to send me your messenger addresses I will add you when I can or we can chat by email.

BTW sorry I called you Hayley in last post my only defence is my son was all over me at the time lol

-Charley

[rameumptom]

I still think you confuse the theology with the actions of the church members. Some churches will let you smoke and drink..but..if you break the chastity laws or never go to confession you'll be working off your sins in purgatory in pain and torment. Others it may sound like you only have to say a few words to attain salvation...but the reality is if you say those few words without meaning it and having a repentant heart, it ain't going to work, you can't trick God with words. Some churches you can lose your salvation through sinning and becoming apostate, then you'll be burning in a lake of fire for all eternity...how much less lenient can you get then that.

Funny story -- when I did my interview before baptism the guy I spoke with asked me what faith tradition I came from, I told him and his response was, "We won't have to go through the commandments again then will we!", Oddly my old church has a doctrine called entire sanctification that is very close to the LDS doctrine of progression -- through living a holy life, listening to the holy spirit with Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross we can become sinless and perfect as Christ is. We can become like him.

I was not referring to the individual members. I realize there are strong and weak members in all sects. What I was referencing was the teachings and doctrines of general Christian sects. While I agree some are very strict, many are extremely lax in their belief on salvation. Those which believe in salvation by grace alone, can often go to the level that lip service expression of belief is all that is needed for salvation. And many of the main Protestant sects do go to that extreme. Even Martin Luther admitted that an adulterer would be saved in heaven, if he had professed Christ's name.

BTW, did your Church believe in original sin? Most beliefs in it establish that there is always a gulf between us and God that Christ cannot ever fully recover: partially because we are of a different substance than God.

[HomeAgain]

Well everyone, I just thought I'd stop by to say that I am reconsidering Mormonism but I still have many questions. If anyone would be willing to chat with me in Windows Live Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, or AIM, I'd appreciate that.

I'm glad to hear that Holly. I'm not sure what I could chat with you about on the Trinity because I never really understood the Trinity in my 3 years attending the Catholic Church. Having been a Mormon my whole life it always made more sense to me that when Jesus prayed to his Father so poignantly, he was literally praying to HIS FATHER, not just a different side of HIMSELF.

The near-sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham also makes more sense if the Father and Son are two separate beings. Otherwise, maybe Abraham should have just been asked to chop off his arm and offer that as a sacrifice.

I'm sorry for being so ignorant on the Trinity.

My testimony of the the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is entirely based on feeling the spiritual confirmation of truth. I used to try to explain it rationally, but I've learned that I just can't.

Good luck!!!