What is so True?

[Landy77]

I have noticed I keep getting different responses from what is so "true" about the LDS. In my mind the church is not perfect in doctrine. For example, minorities would not have been included in temple rites before 1978. There have been several other major changes since then. Also I read that even church leadership is not correct all the time. We would always refer to the standard works. If leaders teachings are based on the standard works but at the same time always refer to the standard works that to me indicates church leaders are not true either. If the doctrine is not true because of being revised for needing improvement, and the leaders are not true because they are not correct all the time. For example Brigham Young, then what is so true about the church?

[Guest tomk]

Landy,

Welcome to the site. I hope you will find some answers here.

The question to ask is, "What purpose might the Lord have had in withholding the Priesthood for a time from certain races? Could there have been a Divine Purpose and Love behind it?" instead of assuming that it was simple bigotry.

Similar questions might be asked of our temple rites. Change does not mean an error has been made. Change can happen for a lot of reasons. It's the Lord's church. HE does not change, but He can make changes and give direction to suit His purposes. For example, we believe in obeying the law of the land. When polygamy was outlawed, we stopped practicing it.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ who is "so true" in my mind. There are a lot of things He might do to remove ALL doubt and run this Church more effectively, but this is the way He has chosen to do things -- through imperfect men who love Him. My advice would be to not focus on their imperfections, but have faith. You'll feel better and be better situated to learn wisdom.

[Hemidakota]

With your first sentence, not everyone is privy on what transpired for the Prophet Spencer W. Kimball. Even former prophets asked the Lord to remove the priesthood ban. If you research it out in the church writings, you find some interesting revelations concerning the response.

Now with President Kimball, he received moving long-term promptings in 1977 concerning this issue. He approached the Quorum of Twelve and asked each of them for next year to contemplate about the restoration of the Priesthood to the children of Cain. This was a year out remember. Though, it was much earlier than that for Kimball in receiving those promptings. This is nothing knew for the Lord to move in this type of teaching moment. Though with Joseph Fielding Smith, it was quite the opposite where he was told not now.

Yes! The Lord allows it priesthood to move independent of the Godhead but they are still in unison as to the gospel. The method employed by Deity from time-to-time, remains very allusive for me since I used to be literalist and now amen to that belief. lol What we think is correct, if not, will be corrected.

[Hemidakota]

Landy,

Welcome to the site. I hope you will find some answers here.

The question to ask is, "What purpose might the Lord have had in withholding the Priesthood for a time from certain races? Could there have been a Divine Purpose and Love behind it?" instead of assuming that it was simple bigotry.

Similar questions might be asked of our temple rites. Change does not mean an error has been made. Change can happen for a lot of reasons. It's the Lord's church. HE does not change, but He can make changes and give direction to suit His purposes. For example, we believe in obeying the law of the land. When polygamy was outlawed, we stopped practicing it.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ who is "so true" in my mind. There are a lot of things He might do to remove ALL doubt and run this Church more effectively, but this is the way He has chosen to do things -- through imperfect men who love Him. My advice would be to not focus on their imperfections, but have faith. You'll feel better and be better situated to learn wisdom.

Yes! I do remember the garment lengths were changed from the beginning to now where the Military is allowed to wear spandex version for pants.

[Hemidakota]

. For example Brigham Young, then what is so true about the church?

What about Brigham Young?

[MaidservantX]

Landy, I am glad to see you back on the site.

You know very well that you have asked questions like this and others similar to it many times before. You have received answers from friends and acquaintances. The answers have not satisfied you. I believe you can find the answers you desire by continuing to pray and to study on your own. Whatever beliefs you personally decide to hold will be respected by us, because we will know you put a lot of thought into them. I personally admire you, and enjoy you as a friendly acquaintance on this website.

God bless as you continue to search for the truth.

[Vanhin]

I have noticed I keep getting different responses from what is so "true" about the LDS. In my mind the church is not perfect in doctrine. For example, minorities would not have been included in temple rites before 1978. There have been several other major changes since then. Also I read that even church leadership is not correct all the time. We would always refer to the standard works. If leaders teachings are based on the standard works but at the same time always refer to the standard works that to me indicates church leaders are not true either. If the doctrine is not true because of being revised for needing improvement, and the leaders are not true because they are not correct all the time. For example Brigham Young, then what is so true about the church?

Hello Landy. A fine question. I'll tell you what is true, and you can write this down as something that Vanhin once said that was absolutely true and dependable.

1) God exists, and the spirits of all mankind are his children.

2) Jesus Christ is God's Only Begotten Son in the flesh.

3) Mortality is part of God's Plan of Happiness for his children.

4) The Atonement of Jesus Christ makes the plan possible.

5) God has always revealed his plan to his prophets.

6) God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith and called him as a prophet.

7) By the power of God, Joseph Smith brought forth additional scripture, such as the Book of Mormon.

8) Through Joseph Smith the authority to act in the name of God was restored.

9) Through Joseph Smith The Church of Jesus Christ was restored and is called, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

10) There is a prophet on the earth today, Thomas S. Monson.

11) By the power of the Holy Ghost, the sincere seeker can know that these things are true.

I know these things are true by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Sincerely,

Esa-Matti Mayfield

[HiJolly]

I have noticed I keep getting different responses from what is so "true" about the LDS. In my mind the church is not perfect in doctrine. For example, minorities would not have been included in temple rites before 1978. There have been several other major changes since then. Also I read that even church leadership is not correct all the time. We would always refer to the standard works. If leaders teachings are based on the standard works but at the same time always refer to the standard works that to me indicates church leaders are not true either. If the doctrine is not true because of being revised for needing improvement, and the leaders are not true because they are not correct all the time. For example Brigham Young, then what is so true about the church?

Landy77,

You are right. This is also taught in the temple, though I won't go into it at length. The bottom line is that if we are not being taught by the spirit, then we get into error. That's it.

I think the Church does a great job of helping us 'get' the message from the spirit. The temple tells us specifically how to do this. I encourage you to exercise faith and become eligible for temple blessings. You'll not regret it.

HiJolly

[Lloyd]

Landy, I may be wrong, but it seems you are having problems with doctine, leadership, and change. Perhaps some of this comes from listening to those that are teaching falsely of the church and it's doctrines, and perhaps some of it comes from changes that have occured such as the revelation received by President Kimball. Because this is the Lords Church, pimples, scars, and bruises included, remember the so called blemishes are man made and man caused. I believe that "He", being compassionate, loving and full of charity, recognizes when changes are necessary, or when "the time is right", and through revelation, instructs our prophets as to the proper changes. I think He knows when we are ready for these changes, and when we will accept his direction, regardless of whether it is politically correct or not. Study of the gospel, prayer, and asking those who are in the church and know the answers, will greatly eliminate many of your questions. It never hurts to ask a question, what hurts is not asking the question of those that really know. It hurts you. I don't claim to know much, but I promise you prayer and study will build your testimony of not only the gospel, but also the church and how it is operated. Lloyd

[kona0197]

Landy,

Welcome to the site. I hope you will find some answers here.

The question to ask is, "What purpose might the Lord have had in withholding the Priesthood for a time from certain races? Could there have been a Divine Purpose and Love behind it?" instead of assuming that it was simple bigotry.

Similar questions might be asked of our temple rites. Change does not mean an error has been made. Change can happen for a lot of reasons. It's the Lord's church. HE does not change, but He can make changes and give direction to suit His purposes. For example, we believe in obeying the law of the land. When polygamy was outlawed, we stopped practicing it.

It is the Lord Jesus Christ who is "so true" in my mind. There are a lot of things He might do to remove ALL doubt and run this Church more effectively, but this is the way He has chosen to do things -- through imperfect men who love Him. My advice would be to not focus on their imperfections, but have faith. You'll feel better and be better situated to learn wisdom.

It had nothing to do with the Lord withholding the Priesthood from certain races. It had to do with leaders in the Church who were racist. You notice the ban for blacks was lifted after the world said it was not politically correct to have a Church thinking like that?

By the way do you all notice that the Church teaches that dark skin is a curse? That's very racist as well.

[Canuck Mormon]

It had nothing to do with the Lord withholding the Priesthood from certain races. It had to do with leaders in the Church who were racist. You notice the ban for blacks was lifted after the world said it was not politically correct to have a Church thinking like that?

By the way do you all notice that the Church teaches that dark skin is a curse? That's very racist as well.

It also says in the Bible that God cursed the people working on the Tower of Babel with different languages. So everyone who doesn't speak the language at the time is cursed, including English. God cursed a lot of people over time.

Do you know the hearts of the Leaders of the Church kona? How can you know they were racist? The ban was lifted a long time after the world had said that it was wrong. The Lord does not work on man's timetable, he works on his own timetable. I suggest you look at Why This Web Site :: Blacklds.org before you start saying what we teach.

[Guest tomk]

It had nothing to do with the Lord withholding the Priesthood from certain races. It had to do with leaders in the Church who were racist. You notice the ban for blacks was lifted after the world said it was not politically correct to have a Church thinking like that?

By the way do you all notice that the Church teaches that dark skin is a curse? That's very racist as well.

I believe the ban was lifted because the Lord knew it was time.

Our church does not teach that "dark skin" is a curse.

[kona0197]

So the Church doesn't teach that Cain was given a skin of darkness and that the Lamenites were not given a skin of darkness? I know better.

The Church does teach this.

[MaidservantX]

I disagree heartily with your understanding of what the church teaches, kona.

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Standing Spotless before the Lord

I do think it is a subject worth studying about, however, and a few suggestions of where to start have been given. Everyone has questions like these. I daresay that this thread isn't a place to get a complete knowledge on the subject.

This is what we are "indoctrinating" (sarcasm) our children with:

LDS.org - Friend Article - What’s the Difference?

[MaidservantX]

LDS Newsroom - Race Relations

Probably ought to have a new thread on this -- but, yay!, it's going to be 30 years that the priesthood was made available to all men.

[Guest tomk]

So the Church doesn't teach that Cain was given a skin of darkness and that the Lamenites were not given a skin of darkness? I know better.

The Church does teach this.

In the past, the Lord has done things like this in order to help the righteous Nephites distinguish between themselves and the Lamanites:

Jacob 3: 9

9 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember that their filthiness came because of their fathers.

Alma 3: 6

6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

You need to distinguish between what the Lord DID vs what we TEACH.

In other words, just because the Lord chose to use this method to help the Nephites differentiate between themselves and the Lamanites DOES NOT MEAN that the Lord meant that ANYONE who does not have white skin is somehow evil or inferior in any way, and it does not mean that we teach such in the Church the Lord organized.

[Hemidakota]

Kona, that is not a correct statement since it was done during Jospeh Smith and other prophets have visited this same issue over-time. You will also notice the Kimball talked alot about this alot earlier when it was brought to the media frenzy event.

[Canuck Mormon]

So the Church doesn't teach that Cain was given a skin of darkness and that the Lamenites were not given a skin of darkness? I know better.

The Church does teach this.

Did you even go to the websites that were provided by members of the church that you are criticizing?

[Hemidakota]

I believe the ban was lifted because the Lord knew it was time.

Our church does not teach that "dark skin" is a curse.

Correct. Cain curse was being perdition and Lamanites were a mark and not a cursing in order to seperate them from the Nephites [speaking or lobing all tribes into onw or the other].

[kona0197]

Did you even go to the websites that were provided by members of the church that you are criticizing?

The only LDS websites I visit are this one and the official Church site.

I've even heard people here say that black skin is the curse of Cain.

Speaking of the Lamenites and Nephites it was proven that all modern day Native Americans have DNA shared with Asian populations. No DNA from Israel.

[Hemidakota]

Then you need to correct them.

[kona0197]

Why correct them? I believe them. You guys are the ones who are wrong.

[Guest Seraphim]

Why correct them? I believe them. You guys are the ones who are wrong.

Kona:

Please provide references for the claims you make.

Seraphim

[kona0197]

References?

Might take me awhile.

[MorningStar]

It had nothing to do with the Lord withholding the Priesthood from certain races. It had to do with leaders in the Church who were racist. You notice the ban for blacks was lifted after the world said it was not politically correct to have a Church thinking like that?

By the way do you all notice that the Church teaches that dark skin is a curse? That's very racist as well.

We don't teach that dark skin is a curse. In Alma 3 it says:

13 Now we will return again to the Amlicites, for they also had a mark set upon them; yea, they set the mark upon themselves, yea, even a mark of red upon their foreheads.

14 Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them that they and their seed may be aseparated from thee and thy seed, from this time henceforth and forever, except they repent of their wickedness and bturn to me that I may have mercy upon them.

They set the mark on themselves fulfilling prophecy.