Before we were born.

[apple]

I have been browsing a non LDS forum and there is a belife that befor God used the Earth for humans, he had other uses. Some of the theorys are really bizzare and I was wondering if the Church has a stance or if any one knew anything?

What did we do with ourselfs in the time befor we were human, did we help with the creation of Earth?

[Teancum18]

This is what we know:

The Earth was created in "6 days," with God resting on the "7th." Now, Heavenly Father doesn't measure time. So 1 day could have been thousands of years by our measure of time. So it is entirely possible that the Earth was used for other purposes before Adam and Eve were actually created.

Furthermore, we know that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed. So the matter used to create this Earth could have come from anywhere and very well could have been used for other purposes according to the wisdom of God.

As for any official stance, there is none by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Well, I take that back. There is an official stance, and it is: "That information has not been revealed at this time."

The only thing that has been revealed is that the Earth was created in "6 days," with God resting on the "7th."

[WillowTheWhisp]

In the 'gospel according to Willow' I think that accounts for dinosaurs etc.

[apple]

Yes I agree with the time period, and that it accounts for dinosaurs as well. But I was wondering what were you and I and all of God's other children doing? I don't remeber where but I read in a LDS sourse that Jesus helped create the earth and I want to know what we were doing while our eldest Brother and Father were creating the Earth.

Now this is just speculation but it would be cool to think that we each had a hand or even imput in the creation of our home.

What made me so curius is on the other non LDS sourse they are saying that God let Lucifer have some time ruleing the Earth long befor humans. (Befor he rebeled)

Now I take every thing I read outside of Church docterine with less than a grain of salt but it did get me thinking. . .

[Vanhin]

I have been browsing a non LDS forum and there is a belife that befor God used the Earth for humans, he had other uses. Some of the theorys are really bizzare and I was wondering if the Church has a stance or if any one knew anything.

Some of the things out there people have come up with are really bizarre.

Our scriptures confirm that the elements are eternal (D&C 93:33). We also know from our scriptures that God the Father has created innumerable worlds by his Only Begotten, which some have passed away and some still stand (Moses 1:31-39).

Regards,

Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

Yes I agree with the time period, and that it accounts for dinosaurs as well. But I was wondering what were you and I and all of God's other children doing? I don't remeber where but I read in a LDS sourse that Jesus helped create the earth and I want to know what we were doing while our eldest Brother and Father were creating the Earth.

Now this is just speculation but it would be cool to think that we each had a hand or even imput in the creation of our home.

What made me so curius is on the other non LDS sourse they are saying that God let Lucifer have some time ruleing the Earth long befor humans. (Befor he rebeled)

Now I take every thing I read outside of Church docterine with less than a grain of salt but it did get me thinking. . .

As you said, "...less than a grain of salt..."

Stick with the gospel basics until they are absorbed as fabric, part of your mortal being. When you are ready to learn more, then ask God for 'Wisdom' that HE may expand your desires [want to know]. Allow the spirit to work with you. Over-time, you will be amazed how the standard works will begin to unfold before your eyes.

[Vanhin]

Yes I agree with the time period, and that it accounts for dinosaurs as well. But I was wondering what were you and I and all of God's other children doing? I don't remeber where but I read in a LDS sourse that Jesus helped create the earth and I want to know what we were doing while our eldest Brother and Father were creating the Earth.

Now this is just speculation but it would be cool to think that we each had a hand or even imput in the creation of our home.

What made me so curius is on the other non LDS sourse they are saying that God let Lucifer have some time ruleing the Earth long befor humans. (Befor he rebeled)

Now I take every thing I read outside of Church docterine with less than a grain of salt but it did get me thinking. . .

Considering the fact that we help God with his purposes in mortality, and when exalted, will glorify the Father in continuing his works (D&C 132:63), I don't have a hard time believing that we had a part in the creation before we worn born.

Regards,

Vanhin

[apple]

Thanks I will read D&C93 and Moses 1 tonight.

It is funny how when I try to find answers outside the church I get more questions, and in it, sensible answers.

[Hemidakota]

There is nothing wrong with hearing dogmas, it will only as you said, lead to more questions.

It did for me when science became my main focus in the 80s. I usually follow the 'fellows' and what was said until I begin to notice, not all was correct. Later, the spirit corrected most of the learneth dogmas. Few, due to my upbringing will remain until the FATHER feel I am ready to learn.

As it will be with you. Read the books. Ask the questions.

[EruditioSalvatus]

I know it's semantical, but coupling the idea of 'other uses for the Earth' with the often mentioned commandment 'replenish the Earth' makes one wonder if all this hasn't happened before. If something is in need of being replenished, it must have been filled some time before and subsequently emptied or reduced.

Uncle Willy: Boy, listen to that thunder! God's doing some serious thinkin' tonight. I bet he's saying, "On second thought, maybe I shoulda given it all to the monkeys."

Brayker: Maybe it's not too late.

[Misshalfway]

What were we doing before we came to earth???

Whatever it was, we were definitely being taught and prepared. Some were foreordained. Some of us, according to popular and completely cheezy church musicals, were promising to marry our spirit sweethearts. AHHHHH.... Some got lucky enough to help create....Adam/Michael. (Lucky! Father always did like him best.) :)

We were certainly listening to Satan make his case and making choices for ourselves.... And then there was the war. And apparently some of us helped to usher the 1/3 out of heaven. I think that is why they are working so hard on me here on earth. Must have made one of them really mad!!!

[lostnfound]

This is what we know:

The Earth was created in "6 days," with God resting on the "7th." Now, Heavenly Father doesn't measure time. So 1 day could have been thousands of years by our measure of time. So it is entirely possible that the Earth was used for other purposes before Adam and Eve were actually created.

Furthermore, we know that matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed. So the matter used to create this Earth could have come from anywhere and very well could have been used for other purposes according to the wisdom of God.

As for any official stance, there is none by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Well, I take that back. There is an official stance, and it is: "That information has not been revealed at this time."

The only thing that has been revealed is that the Earth was created in "6 days," with God resting on the "7th."

The idea that matter can not be created or destroyed is questioned among scientist and is not a proven fact. Which goes back to the idea are we letting science teach us about creation or letting the bile teach us about creation and then finding the science to support it? Ken Ham research is amazing. Look him up. But there are others out there too.

[lilered]

Any answer is merely speculation. We do not know.

[HiJolly]

The idea that matter can not be created or destroyed is questioned among scientist and is not a proven fact. Which goes back to the idea are we letting science teach us about creation or letting the bile teach us about creation and then finding the science to support it? Ken Ham research is amazing. Look him up. But there are others out there too.

Yes, like... Joseph Smith Jr., for example. Look him up.

HiJolly

[Vanhin]

The idea that matter can not be created or destroyed is questioned among scientist and is not a proven fact. Which goes back to the idea are we letting science teach us about creation or letting the bile teach us about creation and then finding the science to support it? Ken Ham research is amazing. Look him up. But there are others out there too.

When we speak of the eternal nature of matter, we are speaking of the classic definition, "anything that has mass and takes up space". We do not believe that a particle can be completely destroyed so that it does not exist in some form or another, and therefore we obviously do not believe it was created out of nothing (ex nihilo). We tend to be more in the "ex materia" camp when it comes to creation. Doctrine and Covenants 93

Regards,

Vanhin

[HiJolly]

When we speak of the eternal nature of matter, we are speaking of the classic definition, "anything that has mass and takes up space". We do not believe that a particle can be completely destroyed so that it does not exist in some form or another, and therefore we obviously do not believe it was created out of nothing (ex nihilo). We tend to be more in the "ex materia" camp when it comes to creation. Doctrine and Covenants 93

Regards,

Vanhin

That D&C 93 is some seriously deep, mystical stuff, V. I love it, and the more Heavenly Father reveals to me, the more I love it. Wow.

HiJolly

[lostnfound]

Yes I agree with the time period, and that it accounts for dinosaurs as well. But I was wondering what were you and I and all of God's other children doing? I don't remeber where but I read in a LDS sourse that Jesus helped create the earth and I want to know what we were doing while our eldest Brother and Father were creating the Earth.

Now this is just speculation but it would be cool to think that we each had a hand or even imput in the creation of our home.

What made me so curius is on the other non LDS sourse they are saying that God let Lucifer have some time ruleing the Earth long befor humans. (Befor he rebeled)

Now I take every thing I read outside of Church docterine with less than a grain of salt but it did get me thinking. . .

apple a couple of things i was wondering if you would respond to in your post for me? As I am still asking more and more difficult questions.:) 1. What scripture in the bible supports the idea that Jesus is our brother? 2. Why would you take things outside of lds a grain of salt? Is this taught in the church to take things non lds a grain of salt or to have no validity?

[lostnfound]

When we speak of the eternal nature of matter, we are speaking of the classic definition, "anything that has mass and takes up space". We do not believe that a particle can be completely destroyed so that it does not exist in some form or another, and therefore we obviously do not believe it was created out of nothing (ex nihilo). We tend to be more in the "ex materia" camp when it comes to creation. Doctrine and Covenants 93

Regards,

Vanhin

i dont' understand why you do not believe he created out of nothing. If you do a hebrew word study on it that is exactly what you come up..

Look at this site..http://www.bcmmin.org/create.html....a complete explanation as to bara..to anybody interested..

He spoke and there was light..he formed man from the dust of the ground..

etc etc....matter is in everything..and I agree with your definition of matter by the way. :)

[seeker]

i dont' understand why you do not believe he created out of nothing. If you do a hebrew word study on it that is exactly what you come up..

Look at this site..http://www.bcmmin.org/create.html....a complete explanation as to bara..to anybody interested..

He spoke and there was light..he formed man from the dust of the ground..

etc etc....matter is in everything..and I agree with your definition of matter by the way. :)

Remember E=MC^2 matter and energy have a relationship the apostle Richard G Scott can attest he was around for the birth of nuclear power and the nuclear navy. Adimral Rickover was sorry to lose him to the Church

matter / energy can be interchanged.

[Traveler]

I will add a couple of thoughts. One: since mankind currently assists G-d through marriage in his most glorious creation it would make sense that many accepted by covenant callings to help with creation in the pre-existence. But just like some are more interested in personal pleasure than assisting by covenant in creation here most likely many sought their own will there as well.

An interesting thought about dinosaurs and other creatures of that era. They were too large for present gravity and could not exist or survive the current forces on earth.

The Traveler

[Vanhin]

i dont' understand why you do not believe he created out of nothing. If you do a hebrew word study on it that is exactly what you come up..

Look at this site..http://www.bcmmin.org/create.html....a complete explanation as to bara..to anybody interested..

He spoke and there was light..he formed man from the dust of the ground..

etc etc....matter is in everything..and I agree with your definition of matter by the way. :)

Howdy,

I'm glad we agree on the definition of matter. :)

Well, the main reason I believe what I believe, is because we have a living prophet, and God has revealed to us many truths about our existence and purpose through his prophets. We know about these things because of those revelations.

In addition to the Bible, we have the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants. And that's not all... The canon is open, just like it has always been. The Bible is evidence that God calls prophets and reveals his will for us through them (Amos 3:7). He has called a prophet in our day, and reveals his will to him, just like he did anciently.

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. (AoF 1:9)

From the Book of Abraham, for example, we learn that by create, the scriptures mean organize. (Abr. 4:1, <- click to see reference) The account in Genesis is not in conflict with our doctrine. God commands the eternal elements, and they obey.

I can understand if you don't believe it, however.

It all comes down to this question: "Did God the Father, and Jesus Christ really appear to Joseph Smith and call him as a prophet, like we claim?" If it really happened, then there really was an apostasy, and more importantly, a restoration. It would mean that the rest our message from the Scriptures is true, and it would be important for you and everyone to find out. Wouldn't you think?

I personally know that our message is true. Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Redeemer of all mankind. He is my Lord and my God, and Joseph Smith was called as His prophet, and President Monson is his prophet today.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Teancum18]

The idea that matter can not be created or destroyed is questioned among scientist and is not a proven fact. Which goes back to the idea are we letting science teach us about creation or letting the bile teach us about creation and then finding the science to support it? Ken Ham research is amazing. Look him up. But there are others out there too.

You have a very good point there. I totally agree with where you're coming from. However, the fact that scriptures teach us that the elements are eternal is enough for me, personally, to accept the notion that matter cannot be destroyed or created, only changed.

I apologize if you don't like my response. I just wanted to give you the courtesy of responding. :)

[lostnfound]

Howdy,

I'm glad we agree on the definition of matter. :)

Well, the main reason I believe what I believe, is because we have a living prophet, and God has revealed to us many truths about our existence and purpose through his prophets. We know about these things because of those revelations.

In addition to the Bible, we have the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants. And that's not all... The canon is open, just like it has always been. The Bible is evidence that God calls prophets and reveals his will for us through them (Amos 3:7). He has called a prophet in our day, and reveals his will to him, just like he did anciently.

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. (AoF 1:9)

From the Book of Abraham, for example, we learn that by create, the scriptures mean organize. (Abr. 4:1, <- click to see reference) The account in Genesis is not in conflict with our doctrine. God commands the eternal elements, and they obey.

I can understand if you don't believe it, however.

It all comes down to this question: "Did God the Father, and Jesus Christ really appear to Joseph Smith and call him as a prophet, like we claim?" If it really happened, then there really was an apostasy, and more importantly, a restoration. It would mean that the rest our message from the Scriptures is true, and it would be important for you and everyone to find out. Wouldn't you think?

I personally know that our message is true. Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Redeemer of all mankind. He is my Lord and my God, and Joseph Smith was called as His prophet, and President Monson is his prophet today.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

now that thought opens up a whole new set of worms..lol...did jesus really appear to Joseph or some other spirit?? Was their an apostasy. i am having a hard time historically backing up joseph smiths claims.

[lostnfound]

I will add a couple of thoughts. One: since mankind currently assists G-d through marriage in his most glorious creation it would make sense that many accepted by covenant callings to help with creation in the pre-existence. But just like some are more interested in personal pleasure than assisting by covenant in creation here most likely many sought their own will there as well.

An interesting thought about dinosaurs and other creatures of that era. They were too large for present gravity and could not exist or survive the current forces on earth.

The Traveler

Travelor am I reading your post correctly?? Are you trying to speculate that we could have helped with creation in the pre-existence? I am sorry if that is not what you are saying. I don't want to misquote you..but if you are..I'll I can think of is God slamming Job for his self-righteous attitude..and he tells Job "where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth" and he goes on and puts job in his place..it reminds me I am Not God will never be God! He is perfect and I am not

[Vanhin]

now that thought opens up a whole new set of worms..lol...did jesus really appear to Joseph or some other spirit?? Was their an apostasy. i am having a hard time historically backing up joseph smiths claims.

There is no way for you to historically back up his claims. He was the only one there, along with the Father and the Son, and most likely the Holy Ghost as well. The only thing you can do is to gain a witness of the Holy Ghost through the trial of your faith. That's how spiritual knowlege is gained. It's a matter of faith; always has been, always will be.

That's how I know that Jesus is the Christ. Not because I read it somewhere, but because I have done the will of the Father, and repented of my sins; and my sins were forgiven me because of my faith in Christ and in his Atonement. I received a witness by the Holy Ghost and now I know this thing (Alma 32). I can tell you without any doubt that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ because of that witness.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matt. 16:17)

And I'm not the only one. Millions can and have testified that that is how God reveals truth to us. The proof is in the pudding. We just have to actually eat some of it to know for ourselves. Our message is true, and by the power of the Holy Ghost, others can know it as well.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and argue about this or anything like that. But you know where Vanhin stands on this issue.

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=id$id=tchg-pix.nfo:o:1be$cid=tchg-pix.nfo$3.0$p=

Sincerely,

Vanhin