skalenfehl

Just off the top of my head there were wars, tempests, earthquakes and much wickedness before Christ descended to visit the the people in the Book of Mormon. Today we are at about the same stage.

We're here to back you up, brother. Stay strong, one step at a time and you will succeed. Keep us in the loop, please! :)

Perhaps, but at the moment, the glass seems to be half empty right now based on your posts. I hope you can heal soon and find greener pastures. They are out there.

According to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a doctrinal watchdog that Pope Benedict used to head, that although Orthodox churches are true churches, they are defective because they do not recognize the primacy of the Pope. "It follows that these separated churches and communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation." Fortunately in the restored gospel there is no mystery of salvation. We know the plan of salvation from the foundation of the world to the fall of Adam to the Atonement of Christ unto man's salvation and exaltation.

Welcome! This is really a great place to hang out, make new friends of all faiths and build your testimony! I believe those who were cast down with Satan will be permanently delivered into perdition or outer darkness. They lost their first estate. Read Jude 6 in the Bible. Essentially our preexistence with Father in Heaven was our first estate. Those who came to earth (you and me) have received our second estate and our glory can be added upon. Read Abraham 3:26. Abraham 3:24,27-28 is also good for reference. Now because we chose to gain our second estate (mortality) we will keep this by virtue of Christ's resurrection. Because he resurrected we shall all resurrect whether wicked or righteous. Read Alma 11:42-45 and Alma 40:21-26. So if you lived a Telestial law, a Terrestrial law or a Celestial law then you will inherit one of those kingdoms. As for Cain and the few who became sons of perdition, they shall be cast into outer darkness with Satan and his followers (who kept not their first estate) where there will weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and Cain, who having a resurrected body because he kept his second estate will rule over Satan. Beyond that, to my knowledge is speculation.

Oh, would you compile a list of small trucks for me please??

I don't see him any differently than any of the apostles of the New Testament, who spoke with boldness and viewed as controversial. I enjoyed the last talk that he gave before he died. His last talk Here is an excellent article that I saved while on my mission from the 1985 Ensign magazine: Elder Bruce R. McConkie: “Preacher of Righteousness” The most poignant quote from him that riveted me: “I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears. “But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.”

Welcome O43!

Ok, as I was about to shut down it occurred to me based on a-train's posts that my analogy is flawed. It's not illegal to drink if you're over age only drink and drive, but if drugs were legal it would likely be illegal to take drugs and drive under the influence. I see your point. Ugh. Maybe my view is fascist. I still don't like the whole idea.

you win.

Thank you, sir.

That's the one!! Oh man I was racking my brain the other day to find it but couldn't even think of a key word to google it. I wanted to use it in a reply the other day but it just eluded me. Thank you!

Ray, I did not say that the pharmacist would actually sell the drug. Only that he has to verify someone's age before distributing it. Whenever I go pick up a prescription for myself, one of my boys or even my wife, I have to give the birth date. Before checking out the clerk also asks for a person's i.d. if that person is buying certain over the counter drugs too. So in essence I'm agreeing with you.

Fair enough. This is a very good debate. I still don't think it should be legalized, just like driving drunk shouldn't be legalized because you can end up killing yourself or others as with using drugs. Maybe my analogy is flawed. It's after 2 am and way past my bedtime and I can't think straight. I hope I've been able to keep it in the spirit of Traveler's intentions and not gone off topic--on my first day as a mod, no less.

Didn't Joseph Smith make some kind of similar proclamation or something to the effect that the Lord's work will move forward, nothing will get in the way and all things shall come to pass before the final days...? Something like that. It is a very poignant quote. I wish I could remember it.

In my scenario, a drug dealer would not. In a-train's, more than likely. It happens today at the pharmacy. And what is a pharmacist?

I don't consider myself fascist, but I am not trying to set my entire ideology based upon our religion but on what I consider the long term consequences, especially considering that marijuana is a gateway drug, that kids are up to five times more likely to try harder substances once they've tried pot. Then do we end up legalizing meth, crack, and who knows what new generation drug is being concocted? Will it be ok to have expertly controlled and government regulated meth labs next to your local pharmacy fifty years from now? Like I said before, I could very well be wrong. I understand your point of view and it certainly has merit, but I still say it sets a precedence for greater problems down the road.

Well, my boys were exposed to it all about the same time they started walking. But, are we referring only to marijuana or the entire scope of drugs and narcotics? I think I see what you're saying...edge out the cartels and make them extinct, not necessarily try and eliminate drugs all together. I still have a hard time seeing either happening. I guess there's no easy solution but to continue standing on the moral ground, be it on a sinking ship.

I'm not sure I follow that last sentence.

...work on roads, etc. Sounds a little like what I suggested, but mine sounded more harsh.

I forgot to address this part and why I disagree. If drugs were legalized, the same people would still be pushing it, only legally and would control the industry, like the big oil companies. The same distributors would be selling it, like gas stations would for the oil companies and the same users would be buying it, BUT I think more people who would normally not try drugs, might be much more easily inclined to do so since it's legal and they could get away with it. Now comes the bigger problem... Who would show up to work not high or spun out? Who's judgment would not be impaired and how many folks would be 25 and still living in dad's basement unemployed because they liked being high? The drug industry would eat society up and leave it in decay. Then the government, for serious health issues would have to come in and make the drug industry contribute to the "truth" and "quit drugs" campaigns and raise taxes on drugs the way it does with cigarettes and perpetuate a whole new series of problems. The system would be clogged with a different kind of legislation. That's the way I see it anyway. I could be wrong, but I think I'm in the ball park.

The only relationship I see there is the consequence and the action/choice.

I agree there, but would change coerce to promote or encourage. I'm approaching this thread from a hypothetical and speculative perspective. I beg to differ. I have two boys, one 19 and one 20 who would love to see drugs legalized. This may put a band aid on the current problem in society, but I believe it would be a terrible long term solution. "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a yard". Let's look at something as simple as what we see on the screen. How far have we come in the last 50 years of desensitized television? Television 50 years ago didn't have husband and wife sleeping in the same bed in most if not all shows and if they did, they were fully clothed or wore pajamas. You never saw Barbara Eden's belly button in "I dream of Jeanie". Nowadays I have to change the channel when some commercials come on the air!! Even my rebellious son was surprised to see some nudity on regular prime time tv. What can your average 5 year old see on tv today? South Park, Simpsons, Family Guy, and those are the cartoons! The bottom line is the more liberal choices society is given the more liberal society will become until there is no turning back. I do not believe in setting such precedences.

My one ton, 4 door F-350 diesel powerstroke sits on my driveway while I drive to the job site in my wife's car. I probably should sell my truck and buy a bicycle. It would be tough pulling my big trailer, though.

Granted, but you pretty much reinforced what I said, which brings me back to my question. How do we build on this?