skalenfehl

Exactly. Christ taught repentance. He taught the people how to be perfect. Only His sheep hear His voice. Today, He invites His sheep still to repent. But can the body go where the head doesn't turn? I ask only because you brought up the leadership.

Thus why we can choose not to cast stones. For what measure we mete, will be meted to us. Christ did not judge the woman. No measure was meted to her. Had He justifiably cast a stone at her, He must needs have cast a stone at each of her accusers and for that matter, each and every last sinner at Jerusalem. But He came as the Lamb to teach and not as the Lion to judge.

That is not what I said. And you are only looking at the woman. Children of Zion have gotten into bed with Babylon.

Contention begins where persuasion ends. Impatience begins where longsuffering ends. Anger, discord, hostility begin where gentleness, meekness and kindness end.

JayGlad, you misunderstood me--or perhaps I didn't express myself better. I did not say that living in a fallen state justifies sinful behavior. The point I was making, under the circumstances in which we live, is that we have agency. And the fact that we live in this fallen state, requires us to use agency and come unto Christ. But the woman did not come unto Christ voluntarily. She was brought before Jesus Christ against her will. Her agency was infringed upon. Indeed she broke the law (why was the man not brought also?). But Christ refused to be judge and jury. He came to minister in the flesh as the Lamb in mortality, not as the Lion in glory (2nd coming). In His infinite wisdom (He could have accused her accusers and rightly so), He dismissed the case and invited her to repent. He invites us all to repent, to use our agency to come to Him willingly, sins and all, to be healed. She was not brought to be healed, but as a lost sheep, to be slaughtered according to the law. Instead, He chose to teach them all by example, one of the greatest commandments in the law, upon which hang all the law and the prophets. A question to ponder--would He, as the Lamb, have been guiltless before His own law had He cast a stone at her? And if guilty, could He have fulfilled it?

The only way I can reconcile it, as we still live and function in a fallen state in the telestial world...When the woman taken in adultery was brought before the mortal Christ, He did not judge her. He simply told her, "go, and sin no more." When we are ready, He invites us to "Come, follow me." He gave man agency and did not, does not and will not infringe upon it. Our church leaders made a deal with Babylon. That's the only way I see it, fundamentally speaking. I have many LGBT friends/coworkers. Some are friends, one whose parents were in my former ward. He finally felt comfortable sending me a friend request on Facebook. Another is a young gal who is not at all religious. She recently married another gal and is very happy. We greet each other with warm smiles and sometimes a big hug. I love her and all my fellow man/woman no matter what. I do not judge. I just love them. I do not and cannot bring myself to support their lifestyle, but I agree that they should have agency to do as they wish, just as I do as I wish. Therefore, I just love them. I can be happy for them only as long as they find happiness in this life. It won't last past this life. The same for anyone of any background, lifestyle, whatever. We are all God's children. I only judge my own walk before God. Forgive me Lord, a sinner.

Today, I finally watch Big Hero 6. Loved it!

For what it's worth: The Role of The LDS Church in Utah's Politics

So what this boils down to, if I understand this current issue, is that it is now safe to openly support one iniquity without losing one's temple recommend? Maybe approved isn't the right word...I'm trying to think of a more appropriate word. Sanctioned? I think sanction is appropriate. Is Elder Christofferson saying that it is now ok to answer yes? It sounds to me like a definite yes. You can express support on Facebook, march in parades, etc. That's the impression I got from the video interview. With this new precedent, will members have the same safety to openly support any other sin or iniquity from losing one's temple recommend? If it's not okay to "support" one iniquity, why is it okay to "support" another? Is the only answer because our leaders say so? Does that make it right in the sight of God? What a slippery slope we have been thrust onto.

I almost want to watch Jupiter Ascending. I love the genre, but this one looks over the top. Then again, it's made by the guys who made The Matrix. I did watch The Matrix, though, back when I used to watch R shows. Violence aside, it was extremely creative and imaginative.

LOL! Thanks for the laughs, Eowyn!

While we live in a Telestial world, we should not partake of Babylon or serve Mammon. But we do.

I've bought books at Deseret, Seagull, B&N, Amazon.com and also ma/pa bookstores with really good collections of old lds works. I mostly buy/read doctrinal/historical LDS books. I don't understand the context of the OP's use of the word relevant. I don't care about who the publisher is, I care about the subject. The price isn't so much a concern, though I do think all of Nibley's works and also the Joseph Smith Papers books are ridiculously priced. I think the best deal I got was when I bought Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling at B&N, not because of where I bought it, though. This gem is 700+ pages and was only $18.95. I don't know who set that price, but you just can't beat that price for the content. I've paid a LOT more for a LOT less content. There are plenty of fluffy books with higher price tags. I don't mind spending more for something that is "nutrient dense," which is why I was very pleased with this book.

Lehi's posterity spread throughout both the northern, central and no doubt, southern Americas. When Nephi beheld a man being filled by the spirit, I believe it was Columbus. The gentiles, which swept off his people began as the Spanish Gentiles, then later the English Gentiles, who escaped captivity from the "mother" gentiles. Ultimately, I believe that Nephi is referring to the United States, which is still free of kings. But this promise is only good so long as the people serve the Lord. My two cents.

John, I am so sorry for the pain you have endured and are enduring. You provided no context in your original post and my response was purely objective and was written with care. I can see now why Eowyn expressed concern in her reply to my post. Had I read any of your other posts, I might have had some indication of what you have been through. Your subsequent post provides a great deal of context, which I can now relate to. I grew up in an abusive and dysfunctional home. My father had a temper and considered us kids little more than mouths to feed. "You are of no help to me." "You are useless." "All you do is eat my food." "You are stupid." "You all are a bunch of lazy animals." "Ahh, stupid." "Why are you so stupid?" "I am Lord Pharoah. You will kneel before me." That was a good day. A bad day was when he lost his temper and hit us repeatedly. Some days it was with a board. Some days his belt. Other days his fist. But he never beat us as badly as his mother beat him. He was the youngest of many siblings. If his sisters didn't belittle him, his mother had plenty to spare. There was not a day that she didn't beat him with anything that she could find and she beat him until her arm tired and she could take no more, never mind him. She didn't need an excuse to beat him. Her own temper was reason enough. When my dad turned 18, he literally ran out the door and joined the Army, not even looking back to say good-bye. Couple the discipline he received at Basic Training with his upbringing and you get an idea of his mentality when I was old enough to make him lose his temper. My dad couldn't understand what it was like to be loved. And even throughout my childhood, I loved me dad. He did have enough compassion toward us, though. I think the only love he could comprehend was the love my mom expressed. She was raised in an abusive home, too. She was quiet and subservient. So you can imagine the kind of relationship they had. I guess I can say that I do have the benefit of knowing what it's like to be loved, thanks to my mom. She was born and raised a Catholic and converted to the LDS church, served a mission and soon after met and married my dad. It was her faith that instilled in me the possibility that there was a loving God up there somewhere. But it took decades for me to strip away the layers of dysfunction and little to no self esteem. Today, as you have read in my first reply, I can testify that I know God's love. But it wasn't without walking through my own valley of the shadow of death. Incidentally, my wife (of 23 years now) and I are adoptive parents. After miscarriages and a tubal pregnancy which nearly cost her life, we decided to adopt. After having been through DCFS training and extensive and grueling paperwork (they sure go out of their way to do background checks!), we became foster parents. Eventually, we adopted two half brothers from a severely neglected home. We truly had our work cut out for us, but we really wanted to make a difference for them. It cost my wife and I heartache after heartache, sleepless nights, and so much more. I eventually closed the doors to my business, lost my home and more. My boys are full grown now. I'd like to say that there is a happy ending, but both have been in and out of jail and prison. The silver lining? Well...one of my boys called me once and told me that if we hadn't taken them under our wing, they'd surely be dead in the gutter somewhere. Do I know what love is? I've learned to love and along the way, I've become loved. I don't know how. It was just a process. I guess it's like Amulek said. It starts with a small seed. You gotta plant it, nourish it, make it grow. Sure, I made lots of mistakes and I've been through hell. Sheer hell all my life. I guess that's how I came to learn that I can be loved by God. He's taught us how. He already paid the price. We just have to do our part and get our feet wet somehow. It's different for each of us. One time, my younger son asked me why I never hit him the way my dad hit me-why I didn't treat him the way my dad treated me. I told him that I wanted to prove to myself that I could break the cycle of abuse. And I did. But not without paying for it. Mistakes will happen. The key is learning from them. You gotta make the choice to cry out to God. Yell at Him. I have. Tell Him all your pain. He'll heal you. You just gotta lay it all on the alter. And I mean all of it. I have long since forgiven my dad, have helped him to heal from his own hell. Compassion, forgiveness, patience, longsuffering, etc, isn't learned without paying a price. I guess it's kinda like letting people beat you and belittle you and spit on you and nail you to a cross so that they can learn regret and learn to ask for forgiveness while you learn to forgive and to love while taking it.

Yes, obedience=eternal life. But the details, as you put it, are different. Noah built an ark. Abraham offered up Isaac. Nephi and the bro of Jared and Mormon and Joseph Smith, etc all had different tasks to perform. And they each obeyed their respective directives given them of God.

Alma does a good job of describing receiving one Comforter in Alma 5. Jesus Christ, Himself, tells us that after we show our willingness to repent and bring fruit meet for repentance, being baptized with water, He baptizes us with fire and with the Holy Ghost. It is a two part covenant relationship. You covenant to obey, He accepts your offering and then gives you a covenant blessing. In this sense, receiving Jesus Christ as the other Comforter uses the EXACT SAME METHOD: you covenant to obey, He accepts your offering (which will likely be different mine or anyone else's) and then gives you a covenant blessing. No. One cannot "know" Christ without having revealed to him/her through the Holy Ghost. Did you notice I quoted 2 Nephi 31 previously? I'll specify some verses: So not only does Nephi tell us what we need to do, he also gives us a glimpse of his own life. Did you notice that in this chapter, he reveals to us that both the Father and the Son have made their abode with him? We read about this promise in the New Testament. If we have received the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, we have received it from Jesus Christ and thus we know Him. And it is a promise, as I mentioned previously. As for a directive, well, I'm going to leave that to you to ask Him that one, but my personal answer to you is yes. If anyone wants to wait until some day after this mortal life to receive the testimony of Jesus, etc, that is your prerogative. Not me, though. What did Joseph Smith say about those who wait? For an example of what the Testimony of Jesus is, read Ether chapter 3. The Lord defines what redemption is.

I did say that if you go back to page one and I reemphasized by quoting Nephi above. To quote my previous post:

I hope you don't mind if I answer your questions in segments. The formatting of this message board (quotes, fonts, etc) is frustrating to me sometimes. I'm not implying anything other than what we have been taught by prophets. The Second Comforter is a privilege that we may have after having received out Calling and Election, or rather, having been sealed up to eternal life. Let me quote Joseph Smith: As for how? Nephi taught us how. It's simple, but not easy. It's a process that typically takes years, if not decades, sometimes a lifetime. This pattern is clearly illustrated in the endowment session, which is an ordinance that provides with a narrative to teach us (as Adam and Eve learned) what we should do. Key elements: 1. Enter in at the way (baptism of water and fire) 2. The Holy Ghost teaches you what you need to do. Angels also teach you what to do (true messengers from Father) 3. You are brought to the veil 4. The Lord tells you what you need to do (what did he tell Nephi to do? Bro of Jared? Abraham? Moses? etc It's different for everyone. You may be required to do something different that me. Also, the Lord will show you your weaknesses. We all have weaknesses that we must overcome. Each of our paths are unique to each of us. So things that I must overcome will be different than yours (What lack I yet?).

No apology necessary. It is not my intent. My initial reply was directly related to the OP. Now if I may ask, what do you think it means when "He will encircle us in His gentle arms. He will be more than an angel to us." I think you know by now what it means to me. How do we know what the OP is asking exactly, if not exactly what he is saying? I don't have a woman's intuition. But I can rely on what the Spirit has taught me based on the information the OP provided. What I see is a very specific question.

I would be happy to discuss in greater detail according to what Joseph Smith taught and according to what we have in the scriptures. You keep bringing up Denver Snuffer as if I am channeling him. I am not. But if you really want to talk about him and what he has taught, you gotta provide references. Eowyn, please help me understand. That was quite a mouthful, as it were. It seems that you conflated several points here, one of which is that the Second Comforter drives people farther from their Redeemer. And you attributed that to Denver. I will assume that you read that on his blog somewhere or one of his books, but I honestly can't tell. What I know, I know independently of Denver or anyone else. But you brought him up. Vort, if I have ever said that one must receive the Second Comforter or be condemned, as you put it, please provide a reference. Did you read that in any of my posts? And if you read that from Denver's blog or anything he has written, I would appreciate a citation. I feel like I am being pigeonholed into a box, painted by individual paradigms. If I have posted anything that is false, please call me on it. Now I am not feeling defensive or being defensive. I am genuinely curious about the assertions made by both of you. And if I recall, it wasn't too long ago in another thread that I was told something to effect that I should be careful about the assertions that I make. I love talking about the gospel. I love talking about my Savior. I love talking about the gifts, which I believe He wants to give us more eagerly than we desire to receive them. I love talking about the things Joseph Smith taught. I love talking about the Book of Mormon. I love talking about receiving our calling and election, receiving both Comforters and so much more. :)

Hmm, as I read and reread the OP, and from a guy's point of view, I don't see a guy coming here for sympathy, although it is certainly possible. Guys don't toss hints like women, or at least like my wife does. And it's taken me years to hone in on the hint thing. We guys just aren't as sensitive and nurturing as the fairer sex. So Eowyn, I agree that it is possible that he came here looking for comfort. And us guys, being from Mars, rush in to offer solutions and fixes. I certainly agree with what you said concerning covenanting to mourn with those who mourn. I have also been endeavoring to be more sensitive to others, so thank you for that post. I hope my posts have not been too insensitive and I apologize for not being more attuned to the OP. Denver Snuffer does not have a monopoly on the Second Comforter. Receiving this other Comforter is taught in the Bible, The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. It is not a philosophy. It is a promise, which Jesus Christ has given to all who earnestly seek Him and He is no respecter of persons. It was taught by Nephi and others in the Book of Mormon. Joseph Smith earnestly tried to get the saints in his day to seek the Lord in this manner, to seek their calling and election, to receive the Holy Spirit of promise. I don't believe I said we must receive the Second Comforter before we can expect any kind of comfort. I do try to be very careful about my wording because too often people see something different than what I've actually written. It happened this week already with Vort. But I digrees. My reply was directly related to the OP's specific quote and what I highlighted in red. Lastly, contrary to what you said about this driving people farther from their Redeemer, what could bring us closer to our Redeemer than when you have knocked and He has opened? What can possibly be more intimate than being encircled about by the robes of His righteousness--His embrace, and to be able to kneel before Him and feel the prints in His feet and to kiss them and to wet His feet with your tears? What can be more intimate than to feel the prints in His hands and His wrists with your own two hands? What can be more wonderful than His countenance smiling upon you and being overwhelmed by His love? When Jesus Christ admonished two nations to ask and to seek and to knock, it wasn't random advice. It was a very specific call to action. I say this in the most sincere and humble way that I can. This path has been a part of my life for over twenty-five years--decades before Denver Snuffer was ever on anyone's radar. That is all I will say about this.

Ah, I understand. To be quick (past my bedtime), we can judge ourselves to be righteous or better than others. I have seen self righteous attitudes. As for me, all I can think of is, "forgive me, Lord, a sinner." Yes, we are blessed, but these blessins aren't bragging rights, which is what I have seen sometimes. I hope that clears it up a bit more.

Judah and Joseph.

Photobucket.com offers free accounts. You can upload photos and resize and manipulate them in various ways.