skalenfehl

Meh. If I were to recommend any of Pontius' books it would be Following the Light of Christ Into His Presence. Visions of Glory is certainly out there, but it's one man's (Spencer) experience. While I do believe that sooner or later, the Wasatch Front will experience major catastrophe, because of the fault line, I take his dream at face value. They were meant for him and are meaningful to him. I do find his descriptions of the "badges of mourning" (as John Taylor described in his vision) on people's front doors intriguing and describe the symbol of the United Nations. The book does include other visions, including John Taylor's (yellow dog), which paint a more universal picture, or at least one concerning the American Continent. I'm certainly not planning my life around his visions, but it certainly validates other visions, including John Taylor's and apparently a newer NDE writer (Julie Rowe), that we should get our houses in order now. But we don't need visions to tell us that. Personally speaking, the fact that we're in the middle of a Biblical Tetrad, is a sign in heaven, which speaks volumes. Good for Israel. Bad for Gentiles (America). I wouldn't be surprised if everything collapses by next Fall. But we'll see.

-I’m reading a great book on anti-gravity. I can’t put it down. -I have a new theory on inertia but it doesn’t seem to be gaining momentum. -Why can’t atheists solve exponential equations? Because they don’t believe in higher powers. -Schrodinger’s cat walks into a bar. And doesn’t. -Do you know the name Pavlov? It rings a bell. -What does a subatomic duck say? Quark! -A neutron walks into a bar and asks how much for a beer. Bartender replies “For you, no charge”. -Two atoms are walking along. One of them says: “Oh, no, I think I lost an electron.” “Are you sure?” “Yes, I’m positive.”

I bought that book a couple years ago, I believe at Deseret Book. It was interesting. I prefer his other book, Following the Light of Christ Into His Presence. I bought this one also a couple years ago at Deseret Book. Someone mentioned to me seeing Visions of Glory advertised on TV between General Conference sessions this year, which I thought was odd, but I've also seen it on bookshelves at Seagull. I've seen Deseret Book also carry his book, Triumph of Zion. John Pontius died a couple years ago so there won't be any more books from him. I think his wife published a collection of his experiences in one final publication. Deseret News published an obituary for him: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/deseretnews/obituary.aspx?pid=161653824

I agree and disagree. To be cut off from the Lord's presence is a punishment, which ends up resulting in what the OP was asking. The Native Indians suffered all those things, which were prophesied as a result of the covenant curses of their ancestors. They are the same covenant curses, which resulted in the Jews at Jerusalem being cut off and their descendants, generations to come, to be driven and scattered and smitten. The Lord scattered the branches in His vineyard precisely because they either produced evil fruit or continued in barrenness and were good for nothing but to be bundled up and burned.

Mormon, who abridged the record disagrees. The Lamanites brought upon themselves their covenant curses as Mormon explained in chapter five, quoted above.

They were scattered and scourged because of their "wickedness" and because of their "unbelief" and because of their "idolatry."

2 Nephi 26:14 But behold, I prophesy unto you concerning the last days; concerning the days when the Lord God shall bring these things forth unto the children of men. 15 After my seed and the seed of my brethren shall have dwindled in unbelief, and shall have been smitten by the Gentiles; yea, after the Lord God shall have camped against them round about, and shall have laid siege against them with a mount, and raised forts against them; and after they shall have been brought down low in the dust, even that they are not, yet the words of the righteous shall be written, and the prayers of the faithful shall be heard, and all those who have dwindled in unbelief shall not be forgotten.

Thought I'd share a little personal research. In the year 1805, Winter Solstice occurred on December 22-the longest night of the year. The next day, the 23rd, when Joseph Smith was born, marked the time on our calendar when the days grew longer, triumphing over night, and light prevailed over darkness. http://www.neoprogrammics.com/sun/Northern_Winter_Dates_and_Times.html

The Lord knows your heart and your circumstances. Abraham paid tithes of all the Lord gave him more than that, which he had need. Tithing settlement is simply where you let your bishop know whether or not you are a full tithe payer. Nothing will happen to you if you don't go; however, I would ask for the bishop's advice and help, if I were you. Tithing is ten percent of your annual increase/income. If you made no increase/income, then your tithe is zero and you are a full tithe payer. I had to close my business down a few years ago and I lost my home to foreclosure. Yes, it is a humbling and humiliating, but it can be a powerful learning experience. If you are losing everything, it sounds to me like you aren't earning any kind of increase. I did have a little help from my bishop at the time, but I knew there came a point where the church could not take over my payments. But this doesn't mean that your bishop can't help with food, etc. My prayers are with you.

The thing about it being done organizationally is that enough in the organization must already be one heart and one mind. Otherwise, disharmony ensues. In 1833, the saints were chastises for falling short in this. They were not one heart and one mind. The Lord gave them a parable to explain this. But their reason for failing to establish Zion was: If we can learn to let go of all our material possessions, all of which belong to God, and learn to truly become one heart and one mind, we would not ever suffer anyone within our reach to go cold or hungry. To be righteous is to be just. To live righteously is to live justly. We fall short of this from the greatest to the least. Who will be the light of the world if not us?

From and LDS perspective, or at least from a Nephite perspective, the poor were taken care of by everyone. Jacob spoke about it, condemning his brothers for searching and digging for gold and lifting themselves up in pride when they obtained more than others. King Benjamin preached by example, what the greatest in the kingdom should do. Time and time again the true and faithful of the people in the Book of Mormon imparted of their substance to the poor and the needy. They gathered together often to fast and to pray and to succor those who stood in need. They understood the principle of consecration. Both! Until individuals learn to become Zion, Zion will not be established. Zion is where all are pure in heart, live in righteousness and where no poor live among them. All are equal in temporal things. They have all things common. If they cannot be equal in temporal things, the Lord does not make them equal in heavenly things. We are not Zion. We claim to be the true church, but we are still individuals with individual pursuits. Many of us have covenanted to live the law of sacrifice. But how many of us have covenanted by sacrifice? We pay according to the law of tithing, though we have covenanted to live a higher law. What is stopping us from living the higher law today? Who is rising up? Are we waiting for a leader to rise up to tell us it is now time? Why isn't that time right now? Why wasn't it when we were baptized? There are some who live the law of consecration today with all their hearts and with all their strength, abasing ourselves to minister to and lift others up. This is what King Benjamin exemplified. This is what Joseph Smith exemplified. Let us rise up individually and sell all that we have, give to those within our reach and rather than covenanting to sacrifice, covenant by sacrifice. Perhaps then, heaven will finally take notice and we can begin to build Zion.

An account of a vision of our Savior's suffering in Gethsemane.

My answer is I kill none of them. In your riddle, I have the power. I will hold on to it and my virtue.

God gave us talents, or rather gifts, in order to serve others and in effect, serve Him. His work (and His glory) is advanced when we minister to others and lift them up just as Christ will minister to us and lift us up. Nephi taught us that when we receive the Holy Ghost, it will show us "all things what [we] should do." (2 Ne 32:3) If you want to be confident in your service to the Lord, exercise the same faith that Nephi exercised when he was given the various tasks while in the wilderness. We are all wandering through a spiritual wilderness. Without the Holy Ghost, or rather the words of Christ to guide us, we cannot be confident as Nephi was confident in obeying the Lord (going back for the brass plates, going back for Ishmael's family, going to the top of a mountain to find food after breaking his bow, building a ship, making two sets of records, etc). We need to connect with the Lord (2 Ne. 32:6). In the Lectures on Faith, we read in the sixth lecture: This kind of knowledge comes from learning to connect with God as others have connected with Him. Most LDS do not know God. Most of the world does not know God. There is a difference between knowing about God and actually knowing God. Without the kind of faith that brings us to know God as Moses did, as Enoch did, as Isaiah did, as Nephi did, as the bro. of Jared did, as Joseph Smith did, etc, we grow weary in our minds and faint. Nephi taught us to pray always and not faint (2 Ne. 32:8-9). And so Nephi did throughout this course in the wilderness and in the promised land. He used all the talents/gifts to serve his family and his people. But one must first "enter in at the way," or in other words, be baptized by water and by fire. You've entered in. Now what? Do I faint? Do I give up? Or do I continue to pray? Am I continually drawn out in prayer? Do I fast? What lack I yet? Pray always? As in all the time? You mean like constantly? What does the word Importune mean? Lecture on Faith 2, Question 146: Devotion. Service. Diligence. Faithfulness. Praying. Supplication. Always. Incessantly. Importune...Are we doing these things? If so, one begins to understand what it takes to wax confident before the Lord. And along the way, you discover that what He has asked you to do, as with many of His other servants, which I have mentioned, is to serve others. It's the how that will be the trial of your faith. It's the how that will humble you and also instill upon you the confidence of Moses and of Nephi and many others.

You're welcome. Anyway, don't take my word for any of it. Do your own homework and let the Spirit guide you. Speaking of the Spirit, for anyone interested in this subject, it is worth your time to read Orson Pratt's discourse on the Holy Spirit and the Godhead: http://journalofdiscourses.com/2/50

+1. The BoM Movie was bad. Bad! I agree with your assessment of Laman, too. By the way, if all goes well, there are two BoM theme movies in the works. One is called End of An Empire. http://www.endofanempire.com/ https://www.facebook.com/ENDOFANEMPIRE/timeline http://www.prox13.com/ (click on the projects link) Another is called Reign of Judges, Title of Liberty. https://www.facebook.com/reignofjudgesmovie/timeline I'm not holding my breath for either as there seem to be issues that have or are making production a challenge for them. But if they succeed, I do look forward to seeing how they fare. Darrin Southam messaged me on Facebook asking for support. After reading some of what he has written, it shows promise, but I disagreed with him that the Nephites had a republic and advised him that if anything, they lived under a theocracy. Anyway, should be fun to see these two finished. If I ever were to make a movie and had an unlimited budget, based on a book, it would be from the Book of Mormon, though my story would revolve around the effects, which the ministries of Alma and the sons of Mosiah had throughout the lands of Ishmael, Nephi and Zarahemla and the lands round about and the escalating wars after that, but that would result in a Lord of the Rings type trilogy.

It is interesting to me that Jesus Christ said, "the two shall become one flesh." And so we are in the flesh, or rather, tabernacles of flesh. But nevertheless, we are one heart and one mind. Truly she can finish my sentences and I hers! :)

Just celebrated 23 years last month. We were both returned missionaries. Before we married, I asked her if she would support me in all my callings, whatever they'd be and in serving the Lord. She said yes. She did and still does. I support her, too. We did have lots of bumps along the way, but because of our foundation, we've weathered all storms.

If we had no weakness, would we still sin? If we sin because of our weakness, do we humble ourselves and come unto Christ? And if we were not weak, of what would we have to humble ourselves? Would we still look to Christ in our fallen state? How often did the Nephites boast in their own strength? What ultimately happened to them?

Message me your mailing address and I will personally send you one as my gift to you. Or you can read it free online and/or download it on mp3 as I have done and listen to daily: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng Downloading options are on the right.

I believe you would make an ideal Mormon. We all fall short. I know I do. But if we were truly practice what we believe, we would, as Moses taught in our scripture, have one heart, one mind, live in righteousness and have NO poor among us. We would as the Lord commanded us in our scriptures to have all things common, to live the law of consecration, to be equal in all our temporal things, this not grudgingly. We would, as King Benjamin taught, not judge the beggars who put up their petition, for we are all beggars and undeserving of the greatest gift available to us all. We would impart of our substance according to their needs and wants and turn them not away. In the Bible, the rich man went away sorrowing because he would not do the final thing told him by Jesus Christ: Go and sell ALL that thou hast, give to the poor, then come follow Me. We must learn to abase ourselves to be ministers to others who are less fortunate than us just as Christ who is greatest among us, descended below us all to minister to all of us. There would be no idlers. We would buy milk without money and without price. There can be no price paid by us for Jesus Christ paid that price and only He had the power to do so. Please reconsider and not judge our faith according to our failings, but rather what the Lord has taught His covenant people in the scriptures, which are the standard of our truth. I invite you to study King Benjamin's words in the Book of Mormon, which are found in the Book of Mosiah chapters 2-5, but the key chapter is chapter four, here: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/4?lang=eng

My brother, I was born into and raised in a dysfunctional home by a father who ruled with an iron fist. I grew up learning fear, ridicule, and worthlessness. But my dad was born and raised in a far worse environment. He knew no love. I knew some. It took me years and years to overcome having zero self esteem and that was through faith. Faith in what? Faith in what my mother taught me about the gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith can only be gained and nurtured by experiment. But how knoweth a man the Master whom he has not served? I decided to serve a mission, though I knew a little about the gospel or the atonement of Jesus Christ. I just knew who Jesus Christ was and was familiar with a number of Bible stories and some Book of Mormon stories. It was on my mission that I decided to take a leap of faith. I pretended to be someone assertive and bold like maybe Ammon or Captain Moroni. It was the most surreal experiment of my life. I figured nobody knew who I was in a foreign country. I could be whoever I decided to become and nobody would know I was this scared boy. But I also began to experience the Lord's love. And as I incrementally learned more about Him and drew closer to Him, He drew closer to me. Today as I look back, had I not done so, I would have remained a mild, timid, fearful adult and far away from my God. Since those days decades ago, having studied deeply our doctrine, I have not only experimented upon the word, I have gained a powerful understanding and knowledge of things, experienced things, and I have seen things. I have a deep love for my Savior and have experienced a portion of His love in my life. His love for us can overwhelm us. I believe that we cannot contain in the flesh all the love, which He has for us. I have felt to sing the song of redeeming love and I do so now even as I type this. He loves you more than you know. It's all there for the taking, one step at a time. He will teach you if you let Him. I promise.

I was a bit perplexed when I read this, but after a little searching, I found it. Is this it from 1994? Anyway, it warms my heart to read that you will be looking into them. I have a physical copy, which I found on amazon.com. I'm old school and while I find ebooks and online files beneficial, there's nothing like holding a good old fashion book in your hands, where you can underline meaningful lines, mark up, notate, etc. But I do love a good online resource with a searchable function, too. And if you missed it, here's a link to a good online copy of the LoF: http://lecturesonfaith.com/ I probably will take your advice and do a more thorough write-up of what I have learned in my personal study of this work. But I'm still plowing through slowly. There is a lot to digest, but I love feasting on such things, especially the Book of Mormon. Instead of starting a new thread on why I love the LoF though, I'll post it on my blog some time. I appreciate your input. :)

An excellent hindsight question. :)