skalenfehl

Indeed. We were born into this mortal life, having descended. We were given a new name. Michael became Adam. I suspect that with each rebirth, or ascension to a higher state, we receive a new name. When Jacob ascended, he was given a new name (Israel). So was Abram (Abraham). This occurs when a covenant relationship is established with God. It means knowing Him (as the bro. of Jared knew, no longer having faith). In any case, I really think you would enjoy reading Isaiah Decoded by Avraham Gileadi if you haven't yet.

Anddenex, as I pondered your question more, another example came to mind, which might also help. When Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden, they went from a Terrestrial state to a Telestial state in order for man to be. "Adam fell that man might be..."

Yes, in the form of trial. It is all a trial. What Moses faced, Joseph, the Savior, etc. I recommend reading Isaiah Decoded by Gileadi. He really does a good job of explaining it better than I could. With Isaiah, he descended to ruin to experience rebirth. He endured the trials befitting one who ascended to Seraphim status. His humiliation and martyrdom became his exaltation by the Lord. He became an emissary for the Lord. In other words, he became a minister of salvation to the people of Israel. None but King Hezekiah hearkened to Isaiah. Isiah describes his trial and also the assurance from the Lord of His place before Him. The analogy is simply a type of death and rebirth on a new or higher state. Seeds become saplings. Saplings become trees and so on. Another analogy or type would be a caterpillar experiencing a type of death to become reborn as a butterfly.

Well, I did write that hastily and why I deleted it as it came off judgmental. The answer is yes and no. He has wanted much more from us than we have now, else we would have ascended as Enoch. This is what Joseph Smith labored ceaselessly to teach the saints, thus the parable of the nobleman, but that is entirely another topic.

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I love Isaiah Decoded by Avraham Gileadi. For those unfamiliar, decades ago, a professor named William Brownlee discovered in the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah a seven part division of Isaiah's book in two parallel blocks of chapters. At that time scholars barely determined that biblical books even had literary structures. So Brownlee's discovery was mostly passed over. Another professor, a colleague of Brownlee by the name of Roland Harrison, Gileadi's mentor, suggested that Gileadi explore this structure for his doctoral thesis. And so a chiasm of history was examined that became what Gileadi describes as Seven Spiritual Categories or Isaiah's Ladder. The seven part division is patterned so: Isaiah 1-331a-2a-3a-4a-5a-6a-7a Isaiah 34-661b-2b-3b-4b-5b-6b-7b In the book of Genesis 28:12-17, we read about Jacob's ladder that reached from earth to heaven, which he called the "gate of heaven." Jehovah was visible at the top. Isaiah built a theology around this idea as a way to define our relationship to God, or rather His role toward us and our role toward Him. In this literary pattern, Isaiah describes his own ladder, which symbolizes the different ways of living that people choose, which either move them up the ladder to God or down the ladder toward destruction. So using the code above (1a corresponding with 1b, etc) we have the following structure in categories corresponding with chapters: -Ruin and Rebirth (1-5, 34-35)--Rebellion and Compliance (6-8, 36-40)---Punishment and Deliverance (9-12, 41-46)----Humiliation and Exaltation (13-23, 47)---Suffering and Salvation (24-27,48-54)--Disloyalty and Loyalty (28-31, 55-59)-Disinheritance and Inheritance (32-33, 60-66) There are distinctions within each level or set of choices we make that brings covenant blessings or covenant cursings. A ladder appears when we recognize these categories of people as an ascending order, from the lowest (or farthest from being like God) to the highest (most like Him). John made it clear in one of his epistles when we obtain the highest rung: We find ourselves at any given time on one rung or another depending on the choices we make, or in other words, what spiritual laws we live or choose not to live. We are either ascending or descending. And if we are idle, well that isn't good either. You gotta climb. We qualify for God's presence (D&C 76: 51-58) when we enter heaven. Some people attain this state in this life. Others fail even after death. This seven part structure presents models on each level, or on each rung. We participate in the role of each model as we ascend or descend. Isaiah's "ladder" to heaven looks like this: Jehovah-God of IsraelSeraphim-Angelic EmissariesSons/Daughters-Servants of GodZion/Jerusalem-God's Covenant PeopleJacob/Israel-Believers in a Creator-GodBabylon-The Wicked of the WorldKing of Assyria/Babylon-Perdition At the bottom is depicted the archtyrant who conquers and destroys. People on the lowest rungs resemble the archtyrant as they follow his example of despotism. The more we resemble him, the lower we descend. Most of us are on the Jacob/Israel rung until we have experienced the baptism of fire. Conversely, the more we become like Jesus Christ, the higher we ascend. By looking at Israels' history and its people we can compare ourselves to them and see where we are on the ladder. Isaiah provides that yardstick for us. We don't need to wait until we die to ascend or descend. Knowing exactly where we stand NOW puts to rest any false "notions of grandeur" that we have about ourselves. It is entirely possible to ascend multiple rungs during this mortal life according to our desires, diligence and the Lord's will and timing. Joseph Smith continually urged the saints to seek their calling and election. Our Savior personally invites us through the Bible, the BoM and the D&C to seek Him, thus receiving the "Other Comforter." The City of Enoch ascended beyond what we normally have as a covenant people. We do not need to wait until some future time beyond mortal death to begin climbing. By having overcome that great gulf, Christ enabled us to progress in this manner. p.s. -- Throughout scripture we read about the descent and ascent of various prophets and people. Isaiah is a primary example. So is Abraham and Joseph who was sold into Egypt. Job is yet another. Moses, Lehi, Alma, and many more are on display, each representing a "type" of ascension. And of course, Jesus Christ descended below us all and so likewise, He ascended above all. Indeed we must descend before we can ascend. This principle is found throughout nature, even the universe. A tree must lose all its leaves and it becomes dormant through a period of descent (winter) before it is blossoms with life again. It is how the tree grows. Each season it is reborn.

What Traveler said. I have taught 14-16 yo Sunday School for many years and year after year after year it's the same. Blank stares. You do have the one or two kids who you just know have "those parents" who are diligent in teaching their children gospel principles, doctrine, etc, etc. and have a fundamental grasp of the lessons each week. It takes a lot of love and preparation to truly teach these young kids nowadays who are more interested in texting during class or whatever they all do with their devices. They do use them for all the gospel tools (manuals, scriptures, hymns, etc), but it's an easy cover for the browsing and texting that they do in between. I feel it a success if they can remotely recall what I taught the previous week.

Not that I can recall most of your posts, but I have appreciated a lot of what you have written over the years. I don't seem to recall disagreeing with any or many of them. We must be on similar wavelengths.

They have no problem judging. And yet none of them have offered to pick up this sister in your place?

Sure they can. But having been in different wards and branches in different countries, I can tell you that the "Mormon Culture" is not all the same. When I moved to Utah, I discovered a "unique" culture all its own. I personally do not equate this "culture" with what Zion is intended to be for surely in Zion all are equal in heavenly things. My wife is very independent minded and very introverted. She struggles in the company of fellow members in large numbers, especially in Relief Society. But she never hesitates to fill a need when she sees one whether in "church" or anywhere else in the neighborhood, in town or among strangers. One can be a private person and mourn with someone who mourns together. One can fast and pray for another and be of service to him or her without sounding a trumpet. There is something to be said, however, to being one heart and one mind with everyone is Zion. Surely in Zion, nobody is introverted. In the meanwhile, I sympathize with your plight. God bless you.

Psalms 73:21 Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my reins. 22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee. 23 Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand. 24 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.

Nice signature. :)

Nephi quotes Isaiah. This concerns the destiny of the scattered tribes of Israel, including Lehi's posterity (Joseph/Ephraim/Manasseh). Nephi gives the interpretation after he quotes Isaiah in the next chapter, 1 Nephi 22: This is yet to happen. But the day will come when the house of Israel is literally gathered in-those who have been persecuted, spurned, stripped of their rights, etc (we see how the Jews have been treated over the centuries) and will be elevated to a position where "kings" and "queens" will support them. They will understand the truth that the Saints will not be ashamed who patiently and faithfully wait for the Lord to manifest Himself. We should all be faithful and not ashamed as we wait for His second coming.

I felt impressed to write this. Sticks and Stones - A Parable

If Christ appeared before you now, you could not endure His presence without being consumed. No man can see the face of God and live. You have to be transfigured as Joseph was in the grove so that he could see God and Jesus Christ. When you reach the point where you can see God in the flesh, it will be because you have been changed. Enoch's people had been changed. In other words, they received the "fullness" of His glory. Their translation had become their "rest." This is why Christ could openly walk among them, whereas with Moses, he could not, but instead go before them shrouded in a cloud or a pillar of fire. The Brother of Jared's story is an excellent example of this process, too. Once he had obtained the "fullness," Christ could no longer withhold His presence.

All of First Nephi is an "endowment." The endowment ceremony is symbolic of the real process. It is allegorical of the process, which Adam and Even underwent. Thus it is the reason each of us are either as Adam or Eve throughout the ceremony. Nephi's life from the time he was ejected from his home and into the wilderness was a series of receiving "tokens" and proving himself "true and faithful" until he parted the veil and talked with Christ. By the end of his second book, he had received the fullness of the priesthood. The Book of Mormon shows many examples of the endowment path. A careful study of the events at Bountiful shows the Savior as an "officiator" at the temple. Pay attention to 3 Nephi chapter 19.

We are not missing the covenant for salvation. That comes with the baptism of water and fire. Being saved and receiving the fullness of the gospel are not necessarily the same thing. It's important to take into consideration the timeline of events. The BoM indeed does contain the fullness of the gospel, or in other words, it is a road map to attain the fullness. A road map or a blueprint contains information to achieve an end. By holding the road map or the blueprint or the Book of Mormon does not transfer this fullness. This was so important that the Lord tasked Joseph Smith to translate the BoM before even beginning the restoration. The new and everlasting gospel is new because it is "new" to us. But it isn't new. It was first introduced to Adam. It was also introduced to other patriarchs throughout the dispensations following apostacy from the fullness. As I mentioned earlier, only Enoch succeeded in establishing the fullness over the span of 365 years, during which time the Lord ministered to his people in person. This is the whole point of obtaining the fullness. Once this was achieved, the city was taken in order to preserve its people from the judgment of the flood. It is everlasting because there is not end to it. There is no end to God or His creations for His course is one eternal round. Those ordinances are stepping stones to obtaining the fullness. One cannot be saved without being born of water and of the Spirit (baptism of fire). Christ is the keeper of the gate and He employs no servant there. Regarding the endowment, it's also important to understand the ceremony. The very first words of the endowment are that we have been washed clean, etc from the sins of the world and that we have been anointed to "hereafter" become kings/priests and queens/priestesses etc. We are very specifically told that "IF" we are true and faithful, we will some day be called up and anointed to become such. So you see, the endowment is merely a preparatory ordinance, which serves as an allegory and is only symbolic of a very real ordinance. You are not really Adam or Eve going through the real process of receiving the fullness. I love L. Tom Perry and all our current apostles and prophets. I reconcile what I posted with the Parable of the Nobleman, which I explained in my blog. Jesus Christ told the Nephites and Lamanites that the Gentiles would reject the fullness. Joseph Smith labored intensively to prepare their minds, but they fell to pieces like glass every time he tried to teach them. I place what Jesus Christ said in the Book of Mormon and in D&C above what you quoted. We can be sealed, etc in ordinance, but one must carefully pay attention to the ceremony to understand that being anointed to become something "some day" is not the same as being anointed to something now. One must, as Adam did, prove oneself true and faithful in all things when one "knocks" if one wants Jesus Christ to open. This is what Nephi taught and why he quoted Isaiah so much. It is what Jesus Christ taught at Bountiful, which I quoted and what Joseph Smith tirelessly tried to teach the early saints, when he exhorted them to continually all upon the Lord until they make their calling and election sure and so on. So by virtue of having the Book of Mormon as scripture, we do have the fullness of the gospel. Or in other words, we have the blueprint or the road map. But because the early saints treated it lightly, the Lord placed them under condemnation and since then has not lifted this condemnation from the saints. President Bension declared that it had not been lifted and Elder Oaks later reaffirmed this truth. D&C 84:54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received— 55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. 56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. 57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— 58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion. Once we understand the condemnation under which we are operating, we can begin to search the scriptures and come unto Christ to lift it. Thus the Parable of the Nobleman in D&C 101 where the Lord tells us that Zion is yet to be redeemed. But this will not happen until He has sent a scourge to cleanse the gentile nation. No apostle or prophet since President Benson's declaration has received or declared revelation otherwise. When this redemption does occur, the City of Enoch will return and THEN we will have OBTAINED the fullness of the gospel, which I have taken the time to explain by using the scriptures including and especially the Book of Mormon.

I don't like the phrase. Nephi tells us that there are only two churches. The organization we are members of is indeed a church, or in other words, an organized body of saints. It is as "true" as the primitive church during Paul's days and as "true" as the ancient church during Isaiah's days. In other words, there is a body of saints, a number of prophets which taught them God's will, etc. Being "true," though, is a whole other discussion. I certainly believe the Book of Mormon is "true" and that the "fullness" of the gospel was restored, though very briefly and then forfeited or lost when the saints failed to build the Nauvoo Temple before Joseph Smith was taken. Since then, we have a great portion of the true gospel, but not the fullness. We do have the Aaronic Priesthood and a portion of the Melchizedek Priesthood, but not the fullness. The fullness will be restored when Zion is redeemed as prophecied by the Lord in D&C 101.

The word unbelief is used throughout the scriptures 70+ times, nearly 50 in the Book of Mormon alone. Moroni 7 is an excellent chapter on the matter. Context is key when using the word knowledge. When the brother of Jared parted the veil, he no longer had faith, for he knew, nothing doubting. This is central to understanding the fullness of the gospel.

I most absolutely without equivocation agree. These blood moons and the solar eclipses coming in the next two years are among the great signs in heaven (moon turning to blood, sun hiding its face, etc). In His mercy, the Lord showed me a recurring vision a year ago or two, which didn't make sense until this year's first blood moon. I hope and pray that everyone is receiving their own dreams, visions, personal revelations, etc from the Lord concerning the coming prophecied events.

The fullness of the gospel has been available to man since the days of Adam. But because of disobedience or disinterest, it was removed until the next dispensation. The Lord's intent and work was also to restore to the Gentiles the fullness of the gospel in the dispensation of the latter days, which required the fullness of the priesthood. He prophecied this to the Nephites and Lamanites at Bountiful: 3 Nephi 20:27 And after that ye were blessed then fulfilleth the Father the covenant which he made with Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed—unto the pouring out of the Holy Ghost through me upon the Gentiles, which blessing upon the Gentiles shall make them mighty above all, unto the scattering of my people, O house of Israel. 28 And they shall be a scourge unto the people of this land. Nevertheless, when they shall have received the fulness of my gospel, then if they shall harden their hearts against me I will return their iniquities upon their own heads, saith the Father. This is the same "fullness" that was offered to the Israelites when Moses led them out of Egypt: D&C 84:18 And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God. 19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God. 20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. 21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh; 22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live. 23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God; 24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory. 25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also... This "rest" is what the Lord offers His covenant people when they are obedient. It is this same "rest," which the prophet, Mormon taught his people and whose words were preserved by his son Moroni in the Book of Mormon: Moroni 7:1 And now I, Moroni, write a few of the words of my father Mormon, which he spake concerning faith, hope, and charity; for after this manner did he speak unto the people, as he taught them in the synagogue which they had built for the place of worship. 2 And now I, Mormon, speak unto you, my beloved brethren; and it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, and his holy will, because of the gift of his calling unto me, that I am permitted to speak unto you at this time. 3 Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven... We begin to see a pattern. The "rest" of the Lord is attainable by anyone who is sanctified by the Holy Ghost (baptism of fire) and goes on to "ask" and to "seek" and to "knock." Melchizedek attained this priesthood, which was given to the residents of the City of Enoch through their obedience. From the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, we read: JST Genesis 14:27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch, 28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God; 29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name. 30 For God having sworn unto Enoch and unto his seed with an oath by himself; that every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course; 31 To put at defiance the armies of nations*, to divide the earth, to break every band, to stand in the presence of God; to do all things according to his will, according to his command, subdue principalities and powers; and this by the will of the Son of God which was from before the foundation of the world. 32 And men having this faith, coming up unto this order of God, were translated and taken up into heaven. 33 And now, Melchizedek was a priest of this order What does it mean to be a priest of this order? Who are the priests of this order? Joseph Smith tells us: D&C 76:51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given— 52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. 54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. 55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things— 56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory; 57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. 58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God... Because of Enoch's obedience and those with him, they received of this fullness and established Zion, escaping destruction from the great flood. Because of the Israelite's disobedience, they failed to build Zion so that they could enjoy the same "rest" and thus wandered in the wilderness, both literally and symbolically. In 1833, the Lord gave Joseph Smith a parable as a warning that the saints at Nauvoo were about to forfeit their opportunity to receive this same fullness and fail grievously at building Zion. Because of their failure to build the Nauvoo Temple in the prescribed period of time, they forfeited the same fullness. Just as Moses was taken from the Israelites, Joseph was taken from the saints, leaving them to wander in a literal and symbolic wilderness, even today. Those who attain this fullness are those who are then called to testify to others to come unto Christ in like manner. Enoch, Moses, Isaiah, Nephi, Joseph Smith are just a few examples. This fullness is available to all God's children without respect to persons. One must diligently "ask" and "seek" and "knock."

Jacob beheld a ladder going to heaven. Angels went up and own this ladder. There are many rungs to this ladder, which represent our progress (or retrogress). In order to ascend, we must descend. Adam "fell" that we might be. Adam descended symbolically and literally. Jesus Christ descended below us all (D&C 122:8) and by virtue of descending all the way to the bottom, He ascended straight to the top. We cannot do this on our own. Through His atonement, we may "rise" or climb by virtue of His mercy (receive baptism of fire, receive calling and election, etc). There is a book called Isaiah Decoded by Avraham Gileadi, which beautifully explains the symbolism of this "ladder." The book of Isaiah was written to warn the Israelites that they would "fall" or be conquered if they didn't repent so that they could "rise." The history of Israel's conquest by Assyria is a type, even an allegory of the gentile nation (USA), which will also "fall" to an end time Assyria (and Babylon) because the US will reject the Lord. Babylon is alive and well in the US and in Mormondom. All that remains is for American to be swept off by the desolating scourge prophecied of by Isaiah and Joseph Smith throughout D&C. But But now I'm straying off on somewhat of a tangent. Some examples of "condescension" symbolically would be the process of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly or a tree losing all it's leaves and enduring a season (Winter) before being reborn (Spring growth/newness). Everything in nature and in the universe experiences these stages of condescension and ascension. It's quite beautiful.

The "fullness" of the gospel cannot happen without the "fullness" of the priesthood. The restoration is not complete: Parable Of The Nobleman

My first entry since Christmas. I've been prayerfully studying this subject for the last couple years. Parable Of The Nobleman

Currently reading Isaiah Decoded by Avraham Gileadi. It is arguably the most insightful commentary on the book of Isaiah.