PapilioMemnon

"Our first and foremost article of faith in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is 'We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost' (Articles of Faith 1:1). We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe Them to be filled with the same godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe They are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing Them to be three persons combined in one substance, a Trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true." (Jeffrey R. Holland, "The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent," Ensign, Nov. 2007, 40)

Hello PC They are ONE in purpose, mind, ideas, thoughts, goals,... The same way He commanded us to be of ONE MIND. We, billions of people, can't be one physically, but if we came together to see/think/view/concepts, have goals, purposes the same way as Heavenly Father does, then we all are ONE. They are one in unity of mind, concepts, not physically. This way there are no divisions; we all have to come to the same concepts about God & Jesus Christ. If a president has two counselors, the same are part of the presidency, and can also be called presidents. Jesus Christ, when He offered the intercessory prayer, He stated it so clearly: John 17 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: If we are one, in unity, with His teachings, we are one with Them. Jesus Christ became one with the Father because "He didn't come to do His own will, but the Father's, and He always did those things that pleased the Father, not Him." If we learn to do the same, we will be one with Them, but NOT physically! We must come to have the same mind, the mind of God, see things as He sees, .... and then we can become and be one with Him just like Jesus Christ became one with the Father in purpose. 2 Cor. 13: 11 11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Hello, and welcome back!!! I'm also very happy for you to have all those essential things restored to bless you and your family!

Welcome here! :)

(Emphasis added) Isaiah 41 10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. Psalms 46 1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. 2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; 3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah. 7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. 10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be cexalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. 11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. D&C 123 17 Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed.

"Count your blessings; name them one by one. Count your blessings; see what God hath done. Count your blessings; name them one by one. Count your many blessings; see what God hath done.'' What are you grateful for at this moment? List at least 5 things you're feeling most grateful for (I'm sure we could count thousands of things though) I'm grateful for: 1. Heavenly Father & Jesus Christ's love & mercy! 2.My children: I love them! 3. My job: It helps support myself & my children, and help others in need 4. Our health! 5. That nothing has happened! :) Let's count our blessings and see what God hath done! Wishing you all a blessed and safe week! :)

It's unbelievable He wants to make us as good, loving, merciful as He IS with us! How much love is in it! Just thinking about that He sent His own Son for all of us, it's something beyond amazing... yes, look at the sacrifice He made when He did this, and the sacrifice our Savior did when He gave Himself in our behalf... so that we wouldn't have to suffer as much as He did if we repent! This is pure love; this is His message! This is how He wants us to become! I agree with you when you mentioned that some people get lost when they see exaltation only for its benefits... That's sad! It's much more than that! It's pure love and mercy! He wants to lift us up, and make us like Him (In heart, mind, love, mercy, forgiveness, ...)! I usually like to contrast that with us; some of us when has a little of anything, either education, power, authority of any kind, money, etc... they think of themselves above, better than others, and thus, they try to keep them where they are because to lift them up, it means they have competition... They fear that. That's sad! I'm glad you made that point!!!

Well, in the quotes he posted, it talks about men achieving the status that Heavenly Father has; then explains that Heavenly Father achieve that potential. I just responded in general, about the doctrine of exaltation, that we can achieve His potential and cited the references of the Scriptures related to it. I believe Traveler's way of explaining was through Jesus Christ; we do not viewed the doctrine differently, just explained it in different ways. He compared; I stated.

D&C 21 4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give aheed unto all his words and bcommandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all choliness before me; 5 For his aword ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith. 6 For by doing these things the agates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of bdarkness from before you, and cause the heavens to cshake for your dgood, and his name’s eglory. This scripture to me says it all; the promises are glorious!!!

Dr T, I don't know you, and vice-versa, but believe me, I'm simply stating things, and do not have any hard feelings towards you at all!!! I wanted to emphasize some aspects, and that's why I capitalized some words, to stand out, not meaning anything else at all!!! However, I really don't like the exchanges that are going on between the 2 of you (Sorry, that comes natural since I'm a mother ), and I'm glad that it seems to have ceased... I read most of your postings, and see and know what you believe because I used to be part of a church who taught that; I respect your views! My intention for this thread was & is for people to discuss the doctrine of the Godhead, and learn what LDS teaches about it, what we believe and teach, that's all! That's why I created it under LDS Gospel Discussions, and not under Christian Beliefs or something like that. Be well!

Let's remember that each practicing, believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints pays tithing along with many other offerings throughout a lifetime...

I have been from a faith that teaches the Trinity doctrine; When I started questioning it, and many other aspects of the faith that I could not find support in the Bible, no one could give me a straight answer with Bible support. At that time, I had NO idea about the LDS faith at all!!! Many other denominations, Christians, did not fit what I read in the Bible either. Almost 4 years after moving away from the Church I spent 17 years in it, I met the Missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The first lesson they taught me was the Godhead, and the restoration. IT SIMPLY MADE COMPLETE SENSE because the Bible is very clear about it. Just because I chose a different faith, I didn't begin calling the other churches non-Christians because they believe in the Trinity theory. WE ARE CHRISTIANS; THE NAME OF THE CHURCH BEARS HIS NAME, NONE ELSE. We believe in Jesus Christ and have TWO, not one, but TWO witnesses (The Bible and the Book of Mormon) that Jesus is indeed the Christ, the Son of God. Everything we do, we do in HIS name ONLY. No one else takes the glory; no other mortal being takes His place; He is the HEAD of HIS church, that bears HIS name, not of an Apostle, or any other mortal, ONLY HIS. I find extremely interesting that someone can affirm that we are not Christians; It just reminds me of Alma (& Amulek) in chapter 10 & 11. Elder Holland - The Only True God and Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper’s Bible Dictionary records that “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament].”3 So any criticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not hold the contemporary Christian view of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is not a comment about our commitment to Christ but rather a recognition (accurate, I might add) that our view of the Godhead breaks with post–New Testament Christian history and returns to the doctrine taught by Jesus Himself. We can just agree to disagree in simple terms without offenses. This thread is for people to discuss the doctrine of the Godhead, and learn what LDS teaches about it; it's not to become an argument of opposing views! Thank you!

Yes, it is taught. I'm glad, I don't like to debate Scriptures or doctrine. Link - Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father Gen. 1: 26 (Moses 2: 26) let them have dominion. Gen. 3: 22 (Moses 4: 28) man is become as one of us. Lev. 19: 2 (1 Pet. 1: 16) be holy: for I . . . am holy. Ps. 8: 5 thou hast made him a little lower than the angels. Ps. 8: 6 madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands. Ps. 82: 6 ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High. Matt. 5: 48 (3 Ne. 12: 48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father. Luke 24: 39 spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. John 10: 34 (Ps. 82: 1-8; D&C 76: 58) Is it not written in your law . . . Ye are gods. Acts 17: 29 we are the offspring of God. Rom. 8: 17 heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. 2 Cor. 3: 18 changed into the same image from glory to glory. Gal. 4: 7 if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Eph. 4: 13 Till we all come . . . unto a perfect man. Heb. 12: 9 be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. 1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him. Rev. 3: 21 him that overcometh will . . . sit with me in my throne. 2 Ne. 2: 25 men are, that they might have joy. 3 Ne. 9: 17 to them have I given to become the sons of God. 3 Ne. 27: 27 what manner of men ought ye to be . . . even as I am. 3 Ne. 28: 10 your joy shall be full . . . shall be even as I am. D&C 14: 7 you shall have eternal life. D&C 88: 29 Ye who are quickened by . . . celestial glory. D&C 88: 107 saints shall . . . be made equal with him. D&C 93: 20 you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified. D&C 93: 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. D&C 121: 32 every man shall enter into his eternal presence. D&C 129: 3 spirits of just men made perfect. D&C 130: 1 he is a man like ourselves. D&C 130: 22 Father has a body of flesh and bones. D&C 131: 2 (D&C 131: 1-4) in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order. D&C 132: 20 (D&C 132: 1-24) shall they be gods, because they have all power. D&C 133: 57 that men might be made partakers of the glories. Moses 1: 39 to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. JS-H 1: 17 I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy. See also 2 Tim. 2: 10—12; 1 Ne. 11: 11; D&C 50: 24.

Excellent thread!!! We need to fill our Spirits with the best things, and the Lord's things are on top of all of them! They are the best tools to help us remove the beams out of our eyes so that we can see. See whom? Ourselves before Him; our condition & state before the Lord. Then we qualify to assist others to see as well. The explanation of Mark 9:40 is crystal clear; we must make choices wisely! We should not allow our feelings to determine who we hang out, are friends with, and especially, marry! We must regard all, but we must make choices that will not compromise/jeopardize our commitment to the Lord; He will then protect & guide us! I loved the talk about Good, Better, and Best by President Utchdorf!

Hello Brother,... not sure if I can be of any help... but my suggestions are: 1. Pray & trust the Lord, just trust HIM - Pray until you let out all you have in you to Heavenly Father who can carry all these burdens... 2. Fast - If you can 3. Study, not just read, the scriptures; they will fill you with power and strength to face things, as you liken them to you 4. Go to the conference section: Conferences and go through them, and find topics that relate to your circumstances. Listen with an open ear... and open heart, and let is sink in... Elder R.G.Scott spoke precisely about Abuse this past G.C., this is for your daughter: To Heal the Shattering Consequences of Abuse 5. Please... for your sake, your wife's, and your kids', keep the commandments; they help you qualify for divine guidance, assistance!!! Don't give the enemy a chance to rejoice... & grab you. 6. Persist diligently... never give up! Just one more talk: Broken Things to Mend In our trials, we have a great opportunity to get closer to Heavenly Father, get closer and develop a relationship with Him, lean & rely on Him... Let Him guide, take the control! See these trials as opportunities to bond with the Lord, turn to Him! Through trials we prove ourselves to Him, and we are find out about ourselves. If you don't do things well at first, keep trying, practice makes it perfect! Just persist, but do not give up! Stand steadfast & immovable and this too shall pass! You're in my prayers!

We need to learn to discern the promptings of the Holy Ghost who speaks to us through our thoughts and feelings; we need to learn to distinguish the Lord's promptings from our feelings, and the enemy's promptings. Gal. 5: 22 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Kowing that first comes the thought (Analyze it), then the feelings (Analyze them), if they are "Fruits of the Spirit," then act (Behavior). If not, dismiss it! In Moroni 7, Moroni teaches clearly the way to know good from evil: Moroni 7 Enabling us to discern and be careful with Satan's traps! It's enlightening!

I feel that many of us, including myself, need to be careful not to fall into traps... Let's be wise! We, who profess to know, have a lot at stake! 3 Ne. 11: 29 29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of acontention is not of me, but is of the bdevil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another. We can state our points of view without contention; we can also leave when we sense contention.

I feel the same way about not being able to find accurate/adequate words to describe this great blessing! In Mosiah 4, after the people heard the first part of King Benjamin's talk, the people experienced repentance, godly repentance, that enabled them to see their state before God. (Emphasis added) Mosiah 4 1 And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had made an end of speaking the words which had been delivered unto him by the aangel of the Lord, that he cast his eyes round about on the multitude, and behold they had bfallen to the earth, for the cfear of the Lord had come upon them. 2 And they had aviewed themselves in their own bcarnal state, even cless than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the datoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be epurified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who fcreated heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men. What brought them to view themselves that way? What did King Benjamin teach them before that? Mosiah 2 10 I have not commanded you to come up hither that ye should fear ame, or that ye should think that I of myself am more than a mortal man. 11 But I am like as yourselves, subject to all manner of infirmities in body and mind; yet I have been chosen by this people, and aconsecrated by bmy father, and was suffered by the hand of the Lord that I should be a ruler and a king over this people; and have been kept and preserved by his matchless power, to serve you with all the might, mind and strength which the Lord hath granted unto me. 18 Behold, ye have called me your king; and if I, whom ye call your king, do labor to aserve you, then ought not ye to labor to serve one another? 19 And behold also, if I, whom ye call your king, who has spent his days in your service, and yet has been in the service of God, do merit any thanks from you, O how you ought to athank your heavenly bKing! 22 And behold, all that he arequires of you is to bkeep his commandments; and he has cpromised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth dvary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do ekeep his fcommandments he doth bless you and prosper you. 23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. 24 And secondly, he doth arequire that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bbless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast? 25 And now I ask, can ye say aught of yourselves? I answer you, Nay. Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth; yet ye were acreated of the bdust of the earth; but behold, it cbelongeth to him who created you. King Benjamin taught quite a few principles there: pride and humbleness, recognition of God, gratitude to name a few. In a state of pride (Opposition, enmity) we cannot see, hear, or accept anything that is true. When in our pride, we question the Lord, we pit our ideas/thoughts/teachings against His. President Benson wrote thoroghly about this subject and said the core of pride is enmity, opposition, hatred torwards God and others. He also said that pride is the parent sin; all other sins come from it. BEWARE OF PRIDE: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1989.htm/ensign%20may%201989.htm/beware%20of%20pride.htm (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED - EYE OPENER) When the people addressed by the Prophet & king, became humble & meek, they were able to view they were completely dependent upon God for their existance, then they were able to come to see themselves in their real state, and their eyes were open! We cannot afford to take this for granted!!!

How merciful and loving Heavenly Father & Jesus Christ are! How glorious are the revelations we have received; They both restored truth, and clarified all things, opening the doors for the most glorious revelations to mankind! It is a natural reaction for the natural man want all the power, money, positions for him/herself, not share, not make others as good as they are, much less share kindgom, power, pure truth,..., and allow, teach them to became as they are. John 10 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: D&C 88 49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall bcomprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father: Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father Gen. 1: 26 (Moses 2: 26) let them have dominion. Gen. 3: 22 (Moses 4: 28) man is become as one of us. Lev. 19: 2 (1 Pet. 1: 16) be holy: for I . . . am holy. Ps. 8: 5 thou hast made him a little lower than the angels. Ps. 8: 6 madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands. Ps. 82: 6 ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High. Matt. 5: 48 (3 Ne. 12: 48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father. Luke 24: 39 spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. John 10: 34 (Ps. 82: 1-8; D&C 76: 58) Is it not written in your law . . . Ye are gods. Acts 17: 29 we are the offspring of God. Rom. 8: 17 heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ. 2 Cor. 3: 18 changed into the same image from glory to glory. Gal. 4: 7 if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Eph. 4: 13 Till we all come . . . unto a perfect man. Heb. 12: 9 be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live. 1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him. Rev. 3: 21 him that overcometh will . . . sit with me in my throne. 2 Ne. 2: 25 men are, that they might have joy. 3 Ne. 9: 17 to them have I given to become the sons of God. 3 Ne. 27: 27 what manner of men ought ye to be . . . even as I am. 3 Ne. 28: 10 your joy shall be full . . . shall be even as I am. D&C 14: 7 you shall have eternal life. D&C 88: 29 Ye who are quickened by . . . celestial glory. D&C 88: 107 saints shall . . . be made equal with him. D&C 93: 20 you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified. D&C 93: 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. D&C 121: 32 every man shall enter into his eternal presence. D&C 129: 3 spirits of just men made perfect. D&C 130: 1 he is a man like ourselves. D&C 130: 22 Father has a body of flesh and bones. D&C 131: 2 (D&C 131: 1-4) in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order. D&C 132: 20 (D&C 132: 1-24) shall they be gods, because they have all power. D&C 133: 57 that men might be made partakers of the glories. Moses 1: 39 to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. JS-H 1: 17 I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy. See also 2 Tim. 2: 10—12; 1 Ne. 11: 11; D&C 50: 24. Thank you for the nature of the thread! Useful and valuable!

Several references posted from the Bible (Not even the Book of Mormon or D&C) have already showed clearly that They are three different beings, although one in purposes, mind, goals. We were created in His image (Gen. 2); He created us with spirit & body. From the talk from Elder Holland already posted: "We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four."

It is essential!

* To restore: to bring back into existence, use, or the like; reestablish "The Standard of Truth Has Been Erected" - President Boyd K. Packer - Gen. Conf. Oct. 2003 - "The Standard of Truth Has Been Erected" (Emphasis added) "The Church you belong to, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is the restored Church.3 When you know what restored means, you will understand why standards of conduct are as they are. Following the Crucifixion of Christ an apostasy occurred. Leaders began to "teach for doctrines the commandments of men."4 They lost the keys of authority and closed themselves off from the channels of revelation. That lost authority could not just be repossessed. It had to be restored by those who held the keys of authority anciently.5 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a remodeled version of another church. It is not an adjustment or a correction or a protest against any other church. They have their "form of godliness"6 and their goodness and value. John the Baptist returned through the veil to confer the Aaronic Priesthood, "which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins."7 A companion ordinance, confirmation and the conferral of the gift of the Holy Ghost, required a greater authority.8 Soon thereafter, Peter, James, and John, Apostle companions of the Lord, restored the higher or Melchizedek Priesthood9—"the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God."10 The Restoration did not come all at once. In a series of visitations, other prophets came to restore the keys of the priesthood.11 With the authority restored, the organization was revealed. Apostles were ordained, and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and First Presidency were organized as they had been anciently.12 The ordinances were revealed and authority given to perform them. The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ was translated and published. In it is "the fulness of [the] everlasting gospel."13 Other revelations were published—the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. From those books of scripture, we learned why the earth was created and who created it.14 There was opened to the early leaders of the Church the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the standards He requires of His disciples. We learned about the plan of redemption—"the great plan of happiness."15 We came to earth to be tested and to gain experience, with a promise that "through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."16" It's a delight to read and talk about the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. LDS members, please join and leave your thoughts on it! Questions welcomed!

Yeah... that's a nice piece of beef you're asking for.... but I would discuss that (Spirit world) on another thread... One subject per thread Let's continue drinking some lactose/fat free milk for now!

Originally Posted by Dr T I understand that as a LDS belief. It was a claim of Joseph Smith and so I understand why you want to hold onto that belief. I do not believe the Father has a body because I do not believe that He was resurrected. I do not believe the Father has ever lived and died like Jesus did. If they are/were the same being, the Father being a spirit, but the Son, who came to earth, obtained a body, and resurrected, meaning now He has a body, if They are the same, what did Jesus do with the body He resurrected then? The doctrine of the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, 3 different beings, united, one in all righteous purposes, have resurrected bodies, with the exception of the Holy Ghost, is plain and simple. The Bible shows that clearly; it's not only a claim by Joseph Smith.

abqfriend, I agree with much of what you said, and would like to add some food for thought: Alma 7: 12 12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities. 1. Broken Things to Mend - Elder Holland - General Conf. Apr. 2006 - Broken Things to Mend 2. Hope through the Atonement of Jesus Christ - Elder Neal A. Maxwell - G.C. Oct. 1998 - Hope through the Atonement of Jesus Christ Through the enabling and strengthening power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ people can overcome or bear(To hold up; support, to withstand stress, difficulty, or attrition) ALL infirmities (A bodily ailment or weakness; a failing or defect in a person's character) they face. Anyone who's battling anything that seems too much to bear or deal with, any confusion, emotional/mental issues, self-esteem, lack of faith,... well,.... anything... I strongly recommend a careful reading of these address. They are life changing! Good nite my friends!