StallionMcBeastly

So.... your position is you dont know if he is right or wrong? You're unwilling to say?Logic tells us that we do not accept something as truth unless there is evidence suggesting that it is fact. Such a statement as Kimball's should not be made without providing evidence to support it. (At least if you want to be taken seriously). Jump through all the hoops you want, twist it all you want, but his statement regarding mmasturbation and homosexuality is wrong.

What I don't understand is that you seem to accept what President Kimball said regarding masturbation and homosexuality despite there any evidence to believe it? This is most certainly Presidnet Kimball's opinion. Perhaps he had anectodatal evidence to believe it? I do no know. I do see evidence contrary to his statement, however. Let's be honest - most men have/do masturbate (I'm speaking of non-lds men) and the vast majority are heterosexual. I'm curiuos as to what would prompt him to believe masturbation often leads to masturbation with others of the same sex, and therefore homosexuality? Also, regarding law of chastity violation and losing slavation etc.... my scenario mentioned nothing of losing salvation. I should clarify. There are 2 situations: a situation in which one child would die a young virgin, and another situation in which the child would live a full life while having, on a few occasions, violated the law of chastity. IMO President Kimball's writings suggest that the former would be preferable. I certainly disagree. "There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity -- realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world." -Heber J. Grant (quoted in Miracle of Forgiveness). From reading the book, I got the impression that losing chastity = losing virginity. Maybe others read it another way.

Thanks for your thoughts, JAG. I agree with you - masturbation in conjuction with porn can rewire the physiology of the brain. It causes 3 main changes to the physiology of the brain (according to what I've learned in my anatomy and physiology classes). 1) desentization - the normal dopamine levels in the brain stop being as effective, i.e. activities that would normally make you feel happy start to feel less desireable. 2) sensitization - new neuronal pathways form that make stimulation easier and easier. 3) hypofrontality - the prefontal area in your brain (the area that helps you interpret consequences/make decisions) becomes smaller. There's a few more that I can't recall. It's very interesting. Fortunately, these areas of the brain have high spasticity, which enables them to reform to their former physiology (althought this is a slow process). My Professor was passionate about this topic and I found it absolutely fascinating. Clearly, masturbation can cause changes in the brain. I'm definitely not arguing that. see no evidence to support that masturbation leads to homosexuality, as President Kimball stated. This must have been President Kimball's opinion since he did not provide any data.

Could not agree more! Preach it! :)

You sure like to nitpick. Lol ok, he said "too often leads". Again, I see no evidence that masturbation "too often leads" to homosexuality, do you? Where is the evidence for this statement? This is a complete falsehood. So yes, Kimball got this dead wrong - and that's okay. Why is that so difficult for you to admit? Prophets are not always right. It's okay to disagree with statements in the Miracle of Forgiveness - you can still sustain him in his Prophetic calling. I do. President Kimball quotes David O. Mackay "Your virture is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives." In my opinion, this is a harmful statement. Would you rather have your child die a teenager, knowing they were a virgin and kept the Law of Chastity, or have them live a full life that was spotted with LoC violations? Perhaps I'm interpeting it wrong, but to me it seems that President Kimball and President Mackay are suggesting the former would be better - and I find that crazy... but I still sustain them as prophets!

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Well, for starters, in Miracle of Forgiveness he said that masturbation will lead you to become homosexual..... also, it would better to die virtuous than to live and violate the law of chastity. Seems a bit cooky to me. Just my opinion. That latter example is opinion and can't be proven on way or another, but I see no evidence that masturbation leads to homosexuality? Am I mistaken? lol Anyways, to the OP. Hang in there! It can be difficult to learn of things that don't fit into the whitewashed version of church history we've been taught. It's okay, you can still maintain faith. There are many things that can be troubling to some - even faith shaking - but you can still choose to believe. It can be challenging. Eventually, you will see that these feelings of frustration/confusion you feel now will get better and you will be able to accept the falability of past church leaders. Good luck on your trial - stay strong!

Just mail order a bride from the Philippines

My condolences.

My condolences.

I would say that just because she doesnt subscribe to the Mormon view of deity does not mean she has denied the spirit. She still believes in a loving God.

No, you have absolutely no reason to tell your friend your past struggles. Let go of the guilt you feel and enjoy life!

It seems logical to me that one's testimony could falter even if they recieved a true witness. Whether we like it or not, Joseph Smith is a pivitol figured in which we must place much faith in order to believe our 'witness' that the church is God's one and only true church. If we doubt Joseph Smith, it seems completely illogical to not also doubt the Church's claim of being the only true church. They are 100% correlated in my opinion. IMO This is possible even when having the kind of testimony that you describe.

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I understand where you're coming from. For me it's not difficult to imagine someone with strong faith to begin to question the truths they've been taught. For example, if your testimony is dependent upon the character of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young etc... and you come to learn of information that may discredit your initial perspective of who they were, then you may begin to doubt/question. Sure, your testimony should be built upon your witness from God - but, someone may even doubt their witness/feeling they received (especially since these witnesses and feelings are quite objective.. it's rarely a voice or visitation from heaven) when other foundations of their belief or weakened.

Very good question. There's more to play than testimony IMO. Some people have an easier time ignoring things that initially bother them. An older lady on my mission, for example, started reading Rough Stone Rolling but threw it away once it said things she didnt like. On the other hand, I can't allow myself to ignore the discrepancies. IMO, testimony plays a role, but some people cant help but critically analyze the truth - no matter what it may say. It would seem intellectually dishonest to disregard or ignore facts because they didnt fit my perspective.

Many people can have shaken faith despite being diligent and obedient in nourishing our spirit (prayer, scripture study etc.). Its a great over simplification to think that if one is diligent then they will never have a faith crisis. Prayer and scripture study doesn't magically cure all ailments. IMO, the church has done its members a great disservice in the way it presents its history. In church I was taught a near fictional representation of early church leaders and events. When I began learning of controversial issues that occasionally blot church history I was distraught. I grew up being taught of a nearly infallible church being led by leaders that were almost perfect. When the truth emerged that our history isn't quite the polished fairytale Id been taught, I had a struggle of faith. It was a real and difficult struggle. I felt lied too, misled, and deceived. It's easy to say "oh, he must have never really had a strong testimony" - but that is an easy cop out response. The truth is that when historical facts contradict what you've been taught in church, it feels as if you're world has been turned upside down. People who have these struggles shouldnt be labeled as weaklings or apostates, but they have a real conflict of conscience that needs to be understood. They need compassion. What have I done? I have realized that belief is a choice. I still choose to believe, despite the difficult history and other issues, because it makes me happy.

It could have been very strong, but even the strongest of faith/testimony can be shaken when we feel as if we've been misled.

I second Silhouette. This type of obsessing (not that you necessarily are) can be more damaging than beneficial. I know cause I've been there. It can get to a point where its hard to enjoy life cause we have a fanatical obsession with trying to be perfectly obedient. Theres a line of obsession that need not be crossed when striving to be good. Forgive yourself and move on. Good luck!

Sounds to me you are doing everything in your power to do what is right (you cant control random thoughts that pop into your head). Remember, we're human and imperfect, you're not going to be able to prevent these bad words from entering your mind. I think you should feel great about yourself because you choose not to say them or dwell on them. Good job! And IMO you are of course forgiven :-)

A love a good cat fight, meeooow

Curiosity got the best of you. It happens. Just try to be better from here on out :-) we all have weaknesses of the flesh. If you think talking to the Bishop would help you in some way, then do it. If not, then continue on trying to be Christ like and forgive yourself.

Gracepoint, Scandal, and Scrubs. The latter would be questionable to some, but my family enjoys it.

It's your life, if you don't want to go on a mission, or are unsure,then wait or don't go. I know the pressure is huge, but be strong enough to make the best decision for yourself. If you aren't sure if you believe the church then you won't be happy telling other people they should for two years. Good luck!

mother knows best, mother knows best, listen to your mumsy