Justice

We now have a different Stake President (2nd since the one that told me). I'll ask again and see what response I get this time.

"Church History in the Fulness of Times" is the manual used in the Church Educational System. Might want to start there. You might even be able to find it on line somewhere.

Mosiah 26: 30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me. 1 Cor. 11: 26 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. If you are sincere you are forgiven. It does cause you to doubt your sincerety if you make the same mistakes over and over, but it should not cause you to doubt whether or not you will be forgiven if you are sincere. As far as what to think about during the Sacrament, I suggest you make a study of the wording of the prayers, and ponder over them during the Sacrament. They are deeply meaningful prayers and a person can devote many years to their study. As you take the Sacrament, ponder over what you've read and learned about the prayers that week. It's a very good time to receive revelation on what they mean to you.

It's not just the meeting itself, it's presiding over the ordinance of the Sacrament. When I was the 1st Counselor, the Bishop and 2nd Counselor were both out of town for a few weeks. I ended up having to go out of town one of those weeks. I contacted the Stake President and he is the one who told me the duty would then fall to the EQ President, and not the HP Group Leader. This Stake President was well versed in Church Governance, and unless it's changed, I'd say that's the way to go. Whether you think it is a worthwhile discussion or not, there is somethign that can be learned by how important it is for the right people to be in the right place at the right time in the Church. There is an accountability in the Church, and as a leader you should try to learn the subleties so you will be prepared for when it happens to you. I am going by the instruction I was given until I hear otherwise.

I've always understood that if the Bishopric is not present it would probably be arranged ahead of time that the Elder's Quorum President would preside at the meeting. President of the Aaronic Priesthood is the Bishop. President of the Elders is the Elder's Quorum President (obvious one). President of the Melchezidek Priesthood is the Stake President. Bishop and EQ President both hold keys, the High Priest Group Leader does not (neither does the High Council Member). By the way, if I'm not mistaken, the last deacon in the Ward would preside before a High Council member would. He is not in a presiding capacity.

Also, it could be related more to the family of God more than Himself.

That makes at least 5 Snow. :)

Thank you for that clarification. :) As far as this thread and discussion in general: I still believe that many think "evolution" requires that man evolved also. Once you separate man from the common understanding of evolution, it becomes believable and can even be supported in the Bible. If we stop discussing basic evolution and focus on the original question of did man evolve from a lower form of existence, the discussion would probably be much more enjoyable.

I think one is the "immediate" return of blessings for obedience. This is not discounting the rewards for obedience at the judgment bar, but that in addition to those eternal blessings, He also gives us happiness here on earth. This goes hand in hand with the discussion of the need for obedience, instead of the way many look at it, that obedience is a good thing but not necessarily required. Mosiah 2: 22 And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you. 23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. 24 And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?

I believe there was evolution. It's hardly possible to deny it as all evidence suggests there was/is. The Bible even describes the creation process much like scientists claim evolution took place. God spoke; elements obeyed; and over time they became what God commanded. Evolution. However, the question that should be asked, and I think the one being presented, is "Did man evolve also (from apes or monekys)?" I believe the answer to be no. My belief is that man was born of immortal parents. So, yes I believe in evolution. But, I voted yes, that man's body did not evolve from simpler species. I am not saying that it is impossible that God's intended method of getting man's body ready for their spirits was by evolution. It is a possible method. I'm saying I don't believe it. I'm saying I believe Adam was born of immortal parents. I take the end of Christ's ancestoral chain as literal: Luke 3: 38 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Actually, it means Proverbs isn't scripture either, because Exodus was long before. :) I am baffled, as you seem to be, how this argument can even be presented. It's as if people ignore how we got the Bible and that time transpired between all the books and prophets. They look at the Bible as a book that was just handed to us one day whole, in it's entirety. I believe this is part of the reason it is so misunderstood. Another argument you can use to this "evidence" against the Book of Mormon is that Revelation wasn't even the last book written in the Bible. It appears last, but chronologically is wasn't the last. So, you would have to do a chronological study and throw away everything written after Revelation.

Yeah, to think that was an accidental encounter doesn't do it justice. He could have appeared to anyone, anywhere. And, that it was even recorded in the Bible should give it some significance as well. Too many people look at what was said in the Bible and steer away from what they did. But, the events or happenings should speak just as loud and maybe even more clearly.

I've always wondered if Lilith wasn't a spirit only female that played some role, much like Lucifer, but was misunderstood because little was written. It seems logical that if Lucifer was allowed in the Garden of Eden that a female would have been as well. I don't know, of course, but as far as having physical bodies, Adam and Eve were the first man and woman born on this earth. I don't know where Lilith fits in, or if she was even real. I happen to think she was, but her role and person have been misunderstood, much like Mary Magdalene.

This is simple. Socialism wants the government in charge of certain things. Typically people are better off if they are in charge of those things. People give up responsibility for themselves whenever a government program is instituted to "help" them. They may be good programs, but those things should be done voluntarily by the people. The programs typically instituted by a socialist governement are designed to make the people reliant or dependant on that program. That is damaging to the people who become dependant on the program.

I have a bit more detailed reason, and perhaps a bit more controversial to some. There were several sets of plates mentioned. The Plates of Brass The Plates of Ether The Plates of Lehi The Plates of Nephi (2 sets; large and small) The Plates of Mormon For the sake of this discussion, Joseph Smith translated the Plates of Mormon. It's true we also have the Small Plates of Nephi, unabridged, and we have Moroni's abridgment of the Plates of Ether. But, by and large, the Book of Mormon was taken from the Plates of Mormon, or the Book of Mormon.

Christ bridged this gap between His death and resurrection. He institutes the "missionary effort" from paradise to prison.

Or, Saturday's Warrior. I think Heavenly Father is more in charge than we realize. This topic can get deep, but I think those who are born with birth defects, such that limit their ability to choose, were among those who just needed a body. Some of them came to earth and were tried and tested and became prophets and such, but others had to fill this particular role. My belief is they are among the noble and great ones that were in the pre-mortal existence.

Yes, along the lines of people speaking about sacrifices... when they speak of personal experiences in general where they learned something valuable about life. I also notice it strong when people simply say what is true.

It requires being washed clean by the blood of Christ. The question is "How does one become clean through the blood of Christ?"

Yes. I don't believe He changed the water into wine because He was too cheap to buy some, or to save another a person some embarassment because they didn't provide enough. Water and wine are symbols of the blood of Christ during the ordinance of Sacrament. He provided the wine, just as He provided the blood for the sacrifice He made. I do believe there is a connection somewhere, but I have yet to find the whole meaning. I also haven't found what the significance is IF this was His wedding where He provided the wine... except other than the obvious.

You accuse me of assuming and reading into the text, and now you are. It could very well be, and makes more sense, that Mary asked Jesus because he was responsible to provide the wine. My older Jewish friend told me custom in the day was for the bridegrtoom to provide the wine. In any case, I just wanted to point out your assumption, since you accuse me of assuming. I don't think Christ would have considered it a crisis if they ran out of wine. And, there's no evidence outside of your assumption that Mary asked Jesus to intervene for someone else. More of your assumptions. In fact, it leans toward it being Christ's responsibility since His mother asked him for wine. It makes more sense that she would go to the person responsible. If there was. as you say, a host responsible, it seems Mary would have went to that person.

Where did you hear or read that the Jaredite Plates went back to Adam? Are you saying the writings did, or the actual authors did? So, what's your theory about the room where Mormon buried the Large Paltes of Nephi? Is it at the Cumorah we know? Or, some other hill called Cumorah? If so, where do you think it is?

I have always thought or just assumed this also. That's it. Mosiah 1: 4. Also, there is something interesting here: 1 Nephi 1: 2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. This means Lehi knew Egyptian, and since the Brass Plates were written in Egyptian, it means the Jews were accustomed to, or at least familiar with, writing in Egyptian, it seems particularly for keeping scriptural records. Moroni makes the point that they wrote in Hebrew also. But, it's interesting to think that the Brass Plates were written in Egyptian, and what implications that might have. I'll give you time to ponder on it and offer any insight. Also, it's interesting that the record of Coriantumr was written on a large stone... Omni 1: 20 And it came to pass in the days of Mosiah, there was a large stone brought unto him with engravings on it; and he did interpret the engravings by the gift and power of God. 21 And they gave an account of one Coriantumr, and the slain of his people. And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons. while Ether's record, presumably of the same events, was written on gold plates... Mosiah 28: 11 Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of brass, and also the plates of Nephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the plates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi; Ether 1: 2 And I take mine account from the twenty and four plates which were found by the people of Limhi, which is called the Book of Ether. Interesting how the secular record kept by Coriantumr, or caused to be kept by him, was on a stone, while the more spiritual record kept by Ether was on plates. Plates of Ether Plates of Brass Plates of Lehi Plates of Nephi Plates of Mormon Interesting. Also, except for just a few words and insights, the bulk of what we have from the Book of Ether is just a geneaology. Speaking of these 24 gold plates found by Ammon (not the son of Mosiah): Mosiah 28: 19 And this account shall be written hereafter; for behold, it is expedient that all people should know the things which are written in this account. We really don't know what is written in that account, except for a few abridged stories. But, we are told they will be made known to us in the future. Any more thoughts?

Moroni is referring to either the Large Plates of Nephi or the Plates of Mormon, correct? Not the Brass Plates? They never wrote in the Brass Plates, right? You're referring to Mormon 9, I believe. Mormon 9 (written by Moroni): 32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech. 33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record. Although, what he wrote here is something I was going to bring up when I gave you my theory. A few more replies and I'll show you where I think the answer is.

I don't know why I've always missed it before, but while reading today something jumped off the page. Have you ever wondered what language the Brass Plates were written in? The Book of Mormon clearly tells us what language the Brass Plates were written in. Does anyone know without looking? Where did you find it? I found it interesting.