Prodigal_Son

I quoted your post and was going to agree with some, but disagree with parts of this concept. But then I realized that every example that popped into my head had a direct tie to personal revelation serving as the catalyst for obedience and action! While I obviously haven't contemplated this idea too heavily, I think you may be right. The scriptures are the building blocks, no doubt - but without some member of the Godhead guiding and directing our interpretation of scripture, we'd be like everyone else: just guessing or taking votes on interpretations and meanings. It reminds me of Joseph Smith's response to what sets our church apart (to which he replied that it was The Gift of the Holy Ghost / revelation). A wonderful insight, thank you.

We're kind of arguing in circles, and perhaps not acting like we ought. So since I've become fairly adept in my role as "thread-killer" (usually through posts so intellectually anemic that nobody bothers to respond), here's my attempt on this one: WHEN SHALL THE LORD RETURN? THE SECOND COMING WILL ARRIVE JUST AS QUICKLY AS WE, THE DESCENDANTS OF JOSEPH, GET THE WORK DONE THAT THE LORD IS WAITING ON US TO DO... AND NOT A MOMENT SOONER. (So maybe if we all log out now and go do something good and righteous, we can advance His return by a good 30 minutes. )

Is that "Brethren" with a capital "B"? I just don't know why'd they'd be so bold as to hazard a date, given the fact that no man knows... Seems... incongruous.

Wow. A prophet declaring in General Conference from the pulpit is NOT revelation? What are you smoking?

Natural causes? Wow. Natural for Hollywood, I'm guessing.

I'll just reiterate a couple of things already mentioned: * Keep it simple, tempting as it may be to delve deeper. This class is neither the time nor the place. * Keep it on track! Very often the active members will make comments that put the class in waters way too deep for them to swim in. Be ready and prepared to curb those wanderings and focus on the pure, plain, and precious teachings of the Gospel.

Sorry, this is belated, but I came across this and your post popped into my head. So, here you go: Harold B. Lee G.C. April 1973 Gordon B. Hinckley, Christmas Devotional of 1987, printed in the Ensign, 02/1988 Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign 05/1980

... Just happened to be studying the birth of Christ and came across this information from a Jewish Rabbi about the presumed eventual arrival of the Messiah: Other references I found tell of how these newborn sacrificial lambs were cleaned with swaddling cloth as they were inspected - perhaps even wrapped in swaddling cloth for their protection! Thus, when the Angel explained that the babe would be found lying in a manger, wrapped in swaddling cloths - these specially trained shepherds needed no GPS, no map-route. They knew EXACTLY what/where the Angel was talking about! How's that for insight?! Simply amazing how much is out there that the Lord has provided that I don't know! I hope this adds to your understanding as it has to mine.

Hemi posted a great link the other day. I admit that I've read it twice and am still struggling to wrap my mind around it all, but it's extremely fascinating and suggests a very specific reason for why the shepherds witnessed what they witnessed. Pure speculation here: The peoples of the American Continent had their own signs - even that of a star as bright as day. And perhaps those of the east were granted a sign very much the same. But we do not have details regarding the star in the NT. I suspect we LDS just put the two together and assume, much as it's very inaccurately portrayed in nativity scenes, that the star was hovering over some nice, wooden barn - while wisemen and shepherds milled about. The wise men came later on, from the East. And Herod, when told about the star/sign - had NO IDEA what they were referencing, nor did his counselors! So what may have been obvious to some on planet Earth was, perhaps, not so obvious to others... Again, just speculation. I'm not at all surprised that Christ never visited (on record) the Essenes. The Essenes of Qumran were an extremist cult. They were a male-only, celibate group - die hard in their convictions. They believed that they were preparing for the coming of the Lord, shunning society - so that when the Messiah came and destroyed everyone else, they'd be the last/only ones left standing - and become the building blocks the Lord would use to create Zion. (Rather short-sighted, considering that whole celibacy thing.) As for the Dead Sea Scrolls not coming from them, that seems a bit of a stretch, considering that both the instructions and details of the Essene Cult AND the majority of the Dead Sea Scrolls all came from the same caves (primarily Cave #4). That being said, I haven't studied it too deeply, so I concede I could be wrong. ------------ Okay, if for some strange reason you're still reading this, I side with you in your concern over being passed by. And as I considered this, two independent thoughts came to mind: #1.) When Christ heals the lame man (of 38 years) at the Pools of Bethesda, a gathering place for the physically afflicted, the cripple has no idea who Christ is! The Triumphal Entry, 3 years of teaching... but this guy not only has never seen Jesus of Nazareth, but isn't even able to put 2 and 2 together when he's healed... Why? Why is it that Christ has never stopped by the Pools before? Why isn't He visiting these individuals who have faith (albeit misdirected) and seek healing? I'm not going to answer this, though I have some thoughts on the matter. Rather, I put this forward as a question worth contemplating that falls along the lines of your, "Lord, is it I?" query... #2.) Something that I've always been intrigued by is the way Lehi and Nephi (father and son) continuously receive completely independent spiritual experiences, visitations, and revelations - despite being on the same team, the same family, with the same righteous desires, heading the same direction. I have come to an appreciation for (though certainly not a complete understanding of) the fact that the Lord works with and nurtures each one of us so uniquely and independently - that there is no way that we can fairly or accurately contrast our own spiritual experiences with those of any other person past, present, or future. We know the #'s will be limited at Adam Ondi Ahman, right? Surely that's not because those are going to be the only righteous saints at the time! This life is so individualized - so taylored specifically for you and for me - that we only need obey and listen with faith... It may not be on the mountain height Or over the stormy sea, It may not be at the battle's front My Lord will have need of me. But if, by a still, small voice he calls To paths that I do not know, I'll answer, dear Lord, with my hand in thine: I'll go where you want me to go.

Dreams (unless from God) are nothing more than your mind sorting and shuffling all your myriad thoughts. Everything you dream about is already in your head somewhere, somehow. And this process, insofar as it has been explained to me, has nothing to do with your worthiness or guiltiness. The only exception to that would be lucid dreaming: that state you can drift back into after you've awakened. In THAT dream state, you CAN control your dreams (some people actually apply themselves to master this art), and THESE dreams are often a DIRECT reflection of what's on your conscious thoughts.

Hey, Antonio! Good to have you on!

While, I didn't do more than glance at the list linked to, my own research makes me think we've got more than just a couple of years. Admittedly, however, anything on these lists could happen alarmingly fast, but some sure look like they'd take some time. Considering the fact that modern prophets have revealed that: the temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt first AND that it will be built by BELIEVING JEWS AND that the gospel will is to be preached to the Gentiles until they reject it and THEN be preached to the House of Judah ... I think we've got a bit of a window. Personally, I'll hit PANIC-MODE when - or when the Dead Sea is healed.

A Microsoft built media player along the same lines as Flash.

Wasn't that Packer? He's spoken so prolifically on the keep-one's-mind-clean subject...

By the way, when you say "Sin City" - are you referring to the BIG sin city (Vegas) or the little, Mormon sin city (Park City) ?

Welcome! 'Nuf said!

I have zero qualifications or experience with these matters - and when I run into that type of predicament, I look for what the brethren have said... Elder Oaks said this: When a marriage is dead and beyond hope of resuscitation, it is needful to have a means to end it. I saw examples of this in the Philippines. Two days after their temple marriage, a husband deserted his young wife and has not been heard from for over 10 years. A married woman fled and obtained a divorce in another country, but her husband, who remained behind, is still married in the eyes of the Philippine law. Since there is no provision for divorce in that country, these innocent victims of desertion have no way to end their married status and go forward with their lives. From MY reading of this, Elder Oaks implies that until that divorce is legit, you cannot "go forward with [your life]".

To simplify your life, install the Internet Explorer Engine into Firefox. Then all you have to do is click the firefox logo in the lower righthand corner of the window to switch back and forth between the two rendering engines. Also, it might be that you're trying to view Silverlight in Firefox. It can be fickle.

Hmmm. Straining at gnats... again...

Hello, Jeycat! While the tragedies you've suffered through (and still are) are beyond my own comprehension, I want you to know that I'm excited for you! We all lose the path at times. That's life. That's part of this mortal probation. But you're making your way back onto the path, and that's just awesome! It makes me think of my favorite of the Savior's parables (and my top-secret identity here on lds.net). The prodigal son, if you remember: "...when he came to himself... he arose and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him... [and] the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: and bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry." While your OWN son is in the sweet, protective watchcare of the Savior right now, YOU have been on a "journey into a far country" and are now returning back home! And though your guilt and self-disappointment mirror the son in the parable - NONE OF THAT IS OF ANY CONCERN TO THE FATHER!!! He cares not about the past. He only cares that you have made the necessary restitution to work your way back to Him!!! All He wants is you to feel joy and love; peace and happiness! Elder Holland, in a talk titled A Robe, A Ring A Fatted Calf, ended his thoughts with this poetic interpretation of that parable. "To Any Who Have Watched for a Son's Returning." by Mary Lyman Henrie He watched his son gather all the goods that were his lot, anxious to be gone from tending flocks, the dullness of the fields. He stood by the olive tree gate long after the caravan disappeared where the road climbs the hills on the far side of the valley, into infinity. Through changing seasons he spent the light in a great chair, facing the far country, and that speck of road on the horizon. Mocking friends: "He will not come." Whispering servants: "The old man has lost his senses." A chiding son: "You should not have let him go." A grieving wife: "You need rest and sleep." She covered his drooping shoulders, his callused knees, when east winds blew chill, until that day . . . A form familiar, even at infinity, in shreds, alone, stumbling over pebbles. "When he was a great way off, His father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him." Know, Jeycat, that you are loved. We, here on lds.net love you. But even moreso, your Father in Heaven and your Savior love you. Keep that in mind when insecurities come and people offend. Find that rod of iron, grab tight with both hands, and make your way along the path to the Tree of Life. There you'll find your son and THE Son - and together you can enjoy eternity in the presence of our Father in Heaven.

Amen to all that! Satan has masterfully masked the meaning of this holiday season to an extent that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Each year I have a talk with my 4 boys about the Christmas season. I try to convey to them the ramifications of the scripture, "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." I explain that, just like everyone else's birthdays, we're going to get the Savior some nice gifts - and that this scripture (and Mosiah 2:17) tells us HOW to do it, and what He wants for His birthday. Among our varying efforts, we take them to school, the bank, Shopko, etc and have them continue to pick the snowflakes off the "Giving Tree" (Secret Santa type stuff) all through December and let them get all the shopping out of their system by allowing them to help us select the best gifts we can for those who are truly in need. It allows them to feel the excitement of reaching out, of lifting up, and of providing joy for others. It's not perfect, but it's how we have managed to live IN the world (of Commercial Christmas) but not OF it. (Note: I share this NOT as a matter of self aggrandizement, but in the spirit of mutual encouragement to any of those of you out there who might feel the same conflict that I do about the current traditional celebration of the Savior's birth.)

Sisterjanedoe1: First of all, let me say welcome! Second, let me express apologies for the fact that some of the responses to your genuine concerns have been less than Christlike. I'm not sure why this thread ended up in attack-mode. I sense that your spiritual edification is suffering from this adjustment in your life. I recognize how easy it would be to lose focus with multiple speakers and languages moving in tandem. And I respect the fact that there could be a natural feeling of begrudgment (I think I just made that word up) for those who've cut into your spiritual feast. It must be tough. And surely it's frustrating, coming to terms with the fact that this is likely to be a long-term situation. That being said, it makes me think of how - early on in my marriage - I felt frustrated by the fact that my personal spiritual growth seemed stifled by my newfound parental and marital responsibilities. I hated that so much of my free time was history - that I was so exhausted come evening, that I was lucky to even crack my scriptures open! For a long time, I actually felt like I was spiritually losing ground. In due season, however, the Lord helped me to understand that - though I wasn't growing and progressing in the ways I was accustomed to - there was tangential growth galore in my life. Sure, I was forgetting my memorized scripture masteries, and I wasn't doing so hot in other categories... but I was learning to sacrifice my wants for my wife's. I was learning to put off my desires for the welfare of my children. I was learning to play less and work more for the good of my family. I was learning empathy towards others. And on and on... Now we know that the Lord will not try us beyond that which we are able to bear, right? Therefore, the Lord has EVERY EXPECTATION that you can and WILL adapt to this next hurdle - and will grow in new ways as a result! Progress may not always be fun, but it IS always good for you. Hang in there. Speak with the leadership of your ward and stake. You have sustained them multiple times - so now's the time to walk the walk by trusting their judgment. Let them know your concerns, and ask for guidance in how you (and any other struggling ward members) can adapt to this new change. I wish you the best, and I know that you have every capacity to embrace this challenge and grow from it.

If that thought is one you didn't push out, but instead enjoyed contempating, then: Yeah, you bet it is! That's the Natural Man taking over, and it's sin. To yearn to make out with this newfound person is to selfishly yearn to gratify your carnal appetites with a stranger. Definite grounds for a yellow card. One of the primary points of the Sermon on the Mount is that PHYSICAL obedience (aka "The Mosaic Law") is not enough. Rather, MENTAL and SPIRITUAL obedience is the higher law demanding our obedience if we wish to "be... therefore perfect".

Hey, there. Welcome to the fold! Your situation reminds me of a story out of church history. It mirrors yours quite well. Rather than preach on it, I will simply share it with you and YOU can extract from it what you will: Parley P. Pratt, an apostle of Jesus Christ was sent on a mission to Canada. While there he converted John Taylor. When he returned home to Kirtland, the community was in heavy disarray and Joseph's standing as prophet was called into question by many who blamed him for the failure of the Kirtland Safety Society Anti-Bank. The feelings were so powerful and so deep, that even Parley himself began to question whether Joseph was a fallen prophet... Then, in a meeting of sorts, (please forgive me, I'm citing from memory) John Taylor called Parley out and said something along the lines of: you taught me, not all that long ago, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. And if he was a prophet THEN, then he's a prophet NOW. There Parley stood, being reprimanded and testified to by someone he, himself had just recently converted through his testimony and faith! And, praise be to God - for Parley was a mighty warrior from then on in defending Truth - he repented, sought Joseph's forgiveness, and was everafter loyal. ... I hope this helps. I hope you are able to recognize the potential for parallel between you and John Taylor.

This seems to fly in the face of the entire premise of us having our agency. Reminds me of the mistranslation in the Lord's prayer, "Lead me not into temptation."