deseretgov

I have that description too. Much better than the wikigod. Too bad there's not a better image of the plat.

Another fun tidbit from the wikiGod New Jerusalem

I think I get what you mean.

You mean that we will declare the laws of this universe in perfect unison with God? I learned a new word today.

Well I was hoping we could get a mod to split the thread. Essentially yes. Although not that I really nee dto remind you but it's not LDS doctrine, just my own personal opinion. Saying there is a "first God" is putting a finite term on a infinite idea. In eternity there is no beginning or end. There is no past or future in eternity. Sorry, that's the best explaination I can come up with. My finite mind can not comprehend the eternities. Well you also have to remember that we don't believe in Ex Nhilo. Meaning that we believe all matter existed in some form for eternity. It was never created neither can it be destroyed. We also believe the Spirit is a form of matter. So your question, in a LDS context, could also be extended to a spirit-only version of God. But in answer to your question the best I can come up with is what I said above.

Here's the White Horse Prophecy. It's the one about the Constitution hanging by a thread. What do you think? Has any of it been fulfilled? Or did Joseph Smith not really make this prophecy, as some people believe. Joseph Smith talking to Elder John J. Roberts, of Paradise, Utah. "I want to tell you something of the future. I will speak in a parable like unto John the Revelator. You will go to the Rocky Mountains and you will be a great and mighty people established there, which I will call the White Horse of peace and safety." When the Prophet said, "You will see it," I said, "Where will you be at that time?" He said, "I shall never go there. Your enemies will continue to follow you with persecutions and they will make obnoxious laws against you in Congress to destroy the White Horse, but you will have a friend or two to defend you and throw out the worst parts of the law so they will not hurt you so much. You must continue to petition Congress all the time, but they will treat you like strangers and aliens and they will not give you your rights, but will govern you with strangers and commissioners. "You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread as fine as as a silk fiber." At that time the Prophet's countenance became sad, because as he said, "I love the Constitution; it was made by the inspiration of God; and it will be preserved and saved by the efforts of the White Horse, and by the Red Horse who will combine in its defense. "The White Horse will find the mountains full of minerals and they will become rich (at this time, it must be remembered, the precious metals were not known to exist in either the Rocky Mountains or California). You will see silver piled up in the streets. You will see the gold shoveled up like sand. Gold will be of little value then, even in a mercantile capacity; for the people of the world will have something else to do in seeking for salvation. "The time will come when the banks of every nation will fall and only two places will be safe where people can deposit their gold and treasure. This place will be the White Horse and England's vaults. A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America, such as has never been seen before; for the land will be left without a Supreme Government, and every specie of wickedness will be practiced rampantly in the land. Father will be against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother. The most terrible scenes of bloodshed, murder and rape that have ever been imagined or looked upon will take place. People will be taken from the earth and there will be peace and love only in the Rocky Mountains. This will cause many hundreds of thousands of the honest in heart of the world to gather there, not because they would be Saints, but for safety and because they will be so numerous that you will be in danger of famine, but not for want of seed, time and harvest, but because of so many to be fed. Many will come with bundles under their arms to escape the calamities for there will be no escape except only by escaping and fleeing to Zion. Those that come to you will try to keep the laws and be one with you for they will see your unity and the greatness of your organization. "The Turkish Empire of the Crescent will be the first power to be disputed, for freedom must be given for the Gospel to be preached in the Holy Land. The Lord took of the best blood of the nations and planted them on the small islands now called England and Great Britain and gave them power in the nations for a thousand years and their power will continue with them that they may keep the balance of power; and they will keep Russia from sweeping her power over the world. England and France are now bitter enemies but they will be allied together and be united to keep Russia from conquering the world. The two popes, Greek and Catholic, will eventually come together in their decline and be united. The Protestant Religions do not know how much they are indebted to Henry VIII for throwing off the Pope's bill and establishing the Protestant faith. He was the only monarch who could do so at that time and he did it because the nation was at his back to sustain him. One of the peculiar features in England is the established Red-coat; a uniform making so remarkable a target to shoot at, and yet they have conquered wherever they have gone. The reason for this will be known to them some day as red is seen in a different color threading through under all history. The lion and the unicorn of England comes from there being so much blood of Israel in the nation. While the terrible things of which I have mentioned are going on, England will be neutral until it becomes so inhuman that she will interfere to stop the shedding of blood and history will be more properly understood. England and France will unite together to make peace, not to subdue the nations. She will find this nation so broken up and so many claiming government, till there will be no reasonable government. Then it will appear to the other nations, or powers, as though England had taken possession of the country. The Black Horse will flee to the invaders and will join them for they have fear of becoming slaves again; knowing that England did not believe in slavery, they will flee to them that they believe will make them safe. Armed with British bayonets, the doings of the Black Horse will be terrible." Here the Prophet said that he could not bear to look longer upon the scenes as shown to him in vision and he asked the Lord to close the scenes. "Continuing, he said: "During this time the Great White Horse will have gathered strength, sending out elders to gather the honest in heart from among the Pale Horse, or people of the United States, to stand by the Constitution of the United States as it was given by the inspiration of God. In these days which are yet to come God will set up a Kingdom never to be thrown down, but other Kingdoms to come into it, and those Kingdoms that will not let the Gospel be preached in their lands will be humbled until they will." "England the Germany, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Holland and Belgium have a considerable amount of the blood of Israel among the people which must be gathered out. Those nations will submit to the nations of God. England will be the last of the nations to surrender, but when she does she will do it as a whole in comparison as she threw off the Catholic power. The nobility knows that the gospel is true, but it has not pomp enough, and grandeur and influence for them to yet embrace it. They are proud and will not acknowledge the Kingdom of God or come into it until they see the power it will have. Peace and safety in the Rocky Mountains will be protected by the Guardians, the White and Red Horses. The coming of the Messiah among his people will be so natural that only those who see him will know that he has come, but he will come and give his laws unto Zion and minister unto his people. This will not be his coming in the clouds of Heaven to take vengeance on the wicked of the world." "The temple in Jackson county, Missouri, will be built in that generation. The saints will think that there will not be time to build it, but with all the help you can receive, you can put up a great temple quickly. You will have all the gold, silver and precious stones you need, for these things will only be for the beautifying of the temple. Also, all the skilled mechanics you want and the Ten Tribes of Israel will help build it. When you see this land bound with iron, you may look forward to Jackson county." "At this point, he made a pause, and looking up as though the vision were still in view, he said: "There is a land beyond the Rocky Mountains that will be invaded by the heathen Chinese unless great care and protection be given." Speaking of the heathen nations, he said: "Where there is no law there is no condemnation; this will apply to them. Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion. The last great struggle that Zion will ever have to contend with will be when the whole of America will be made the Zion of God. Those opposing will be called Gog and Magog. The nations of the earth will be led by the Russian Czar and his power will be great, but all opposition will be overcome and this land will be the Zion of our God. Amen."

Exactly. The religion(word of God) will come from Jerusalem. The Political rule(Law of God) will come out of New Jerusalem. See my signature for more info about the political government of God. So rather Church headquarters will be moved to Jerusalem and national headquarters will be mover to New Jerusalem. I don't think everyone will move to Independance but a large priesthood gathering will happen.

Simple answer: Yes. Expanded answer: I believe that I can become just like my Father(God) is. I can become perfect. I can raise my own spirit children. I believe that I have the potential to be the Father of Spirit children in a completely different universe than this one. God will always be my God. God will always be my father. I will always worship Him.

Can I answer?

Good point. We should get a mod to split the topic.

No its is something totally unrelated. It's not some secret code. We were just trying to not say the word. I'm not sure if it's against to ruels to say it or not. I don't think I ever doubted that you believe in God. I have read all of those scriptures in context. Exodus chapter 33 speaks of when God spoke to Moses in the tabernacle. It doesn't mention the burning bush once. This is an entirly different encounter than on the Mountain. Please read the entire context of the verse to understand what we're discussing. I am reading the post. I'm replying too. Why aren't you replying to my posts? But Jesus Himself said in the Bible that people can see God. These are His words: Matthew 5:8 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. So Christ Himself said that the pure in heart will see God. Do you deny the words of Jesus? So fare I have quoted at least two scriptures from the Bible that says you are wrong. Would you please post some evidence toback up your postion or concede the point. I answered you. Are you ashamed to acknowledge my posts? How can you preach that God spoke to Moses via a burning bush yet have no grounds apart from one man who was not the Son of God? And technically speaking Joseph Smith is a son of God. I am a son of God too. We are all sons and daughters of God. But there is only one Son of God, an dthat is Jesus Christ. The Bible says that we are gods: Psalms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Not even the LDS church says that we will rule our own universes. I personally believe that is true but it is not found in any Church doctrine. No you didn't I answered you straight up. You must have not seen my responses becasue I answered you. Yet I keep getting a robotic avoidence from you. Me, me, pick me! I've answered you. I've answered you. I'm being honest and sharing my true view on these things. I even offered to answer any question you post.

OHHHHHH. I get it now. Thanks. Hahaha.

Could you please PM me the "T" word. I'm not sure what you mean.

What answer are you looking for? It's so simple. We believe that we are literal children of God. We are his literal sons and daughters. Just as with any other child it is our potential to become just like our father. A Baby chick becomes a chicken. A puppy becomes a dog. A Baby horse becomes a...say it with me...Horse. A child of God becomes...guess what....just like the Father. Here's a verse right out of the Bible. No this isn't somme LDS version of the Bible this right out of the King James Bible, one of the most commonly accepted Bibles in all of Christianity. Psalms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. This verse says that we are gods and that we are children of the most High. Look this verse up in your Bible and tell me what it says. So why does it say face to face in the Bible? Exodus 33:11 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. That says the the Lord spoke unto Moses face to face. It didn't say face to bush or face to loud booming voice. It said face to face. Look this up in your own Bible and tell me what it says. Those quotes I gave you came out of the King James Version of the Bible. Many other Christian churches use this book. Look these verses up yourself if you doubt mh. Covers things up or wont tell you? Maybe you just need to ask better questions. So go ahead ask me anything. Anything ask away. I'm not doubting this at all. I believe this 100% So why does it say face to face in Ex 33:11? Please explain this to me. I'm not denying this. I believe this 100% Did you know that Jesus didn't give the Bible to the people. You do know where the Bible came from don't you? The Bible was assembled from the writings of various prophets. The Old tesatment was alreadyt around during the time of Christ. The twelve apostles wrote down their experiences and evetually after the apostles had died these were assembled into the New Testament. These books were first combined together in about 300AD. Look these verses up in your bible please: Job 19:26 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Jesus Himself said this one. Matthew 5:8 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Both of these specifically state that people can and will see God. Please tell me why you think these verses and even Jesus Himself is lying. Look those verses up in your Bible and post them for comparision. We believe the Bible All the scriptures I've posted are from the Bible only. Fortunately we also have the Book of Mormon and the words of modern prophets to guide us. We know not only what God wanted for ancient people but what God wants for us right now this very second. What lies? My sources are from the Holy Scriptures. Do you think the Bible is lying? I'll await your response to each verse I've posted. If there's no response I'll assume you agree with them.

What is your sources please. I'm not trying to be confrontational but I quoted that straight out of the Bible.

I never realized how close Kansas City is to Independance, Missouri and Adam-ondi-Ahman

This is where the problem is. Think of who writies wikipedia. You should research from official sources. But before you even do research you need to establish a fundemental understanding. The understanding doesn't come from the writings of historians but from the words of God and the prophets. Read your Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Bible, and Pearl of Great Price. AFTER you read all of those, then you can read other books. Feast on the words of God, not on the words of men. Fisrt of all, what is wrong with the Mansons? Now Skull and Bones those are the guys you need to avoid. From what I've read Masons believe in God. They read the Bible. They aren't even a religion they are aplace for religions people to join. Perhaps its your own personal choice that makes the Masons such a bad thing. Thus anything connected with Freemasonry would seem bad too. It's great that you have had such wonderful experiences. Just keep reading what is important, the Word of GOD. Just think whcih will God judge us upon: our knowledge of wikipedia? Or our knowledge of His word. Don't worry about trying to become a god. Just try and live the best you can. If God wants you to become a god and you are doing your best there wont be a problem. If God doesn't want you to be a god then that ok too. Just whatever you do, do your best to follow God's commandments and everything else will take care of itself. God is in charge, trust in Him. Not really. It may be heresy according to some religions but is it heresy to God? If you believe the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church then you also must believe tat The true church the Jesus Christ established was lost and corrupted. Thus if teh Catholic church or Church of England or whatever says it's heresy, then they may be wrong, becasuer they don't have the complete truth. Don't get me wrong other churches aren't bad. They just don't have all of teh truth. They have parts of the truth. I can't think of any Biblical verses either. Does the Bible contain 100% of the word of God? IF you're LDS then you must beleve that it doesn't. Even the Bible itself says it doesn't contain 100% of the Word of God. or that man can become God! You're right Not even the LDS church says we can become God(Heavenly Father). We teach that it is our divine potential as literal children of God to become just like Him. We won't become Him, but become like Him. But actually the Bible does speak about this: Psalms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. That is correct God does not change. If God changed he would cease to be God. But this speaks about the actions of God not about His Physical body. Deeper ideas(Warning read at your own risk this is my own personal interpretation.) Also keep in mind that the Bible doesn't say everything. It only tell us things related to our salvation. The Bible doesn't talk about dinosaurs, yet they existed. But dinosaurs aren't important for our salvation. Becomoing a god is not important to our salvation. Having Faith in Jesus Christ, Repenting, being Baptized, recieving the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and Obeying the commandments the best you can until the final judgement, it what is important for salvation. Focus on those first. Yes we believe that. The doctrine of Eternal Progression does not contradict that. God was God before we were created as Spirit children, and that was a heck of a long time before the creation of the Earth or start of the Bible ever happened. Here's some scriptures, emphasis added. Genesis 32:30 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Exodus 33:11 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. Job 19:26 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: No Jesus Himself said this: Matthew 5:8 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Those are just a few references. It's quite clear that according to the Bible seeing God is not only possible, but actually happened. Let's examine this scripture. 'God is not a man...' This is where the hang up is. Notice that is says God IS not a man. This is present tense. In order for this scripture to contradict the idea of Eternal Progress then it should say 'God was not a man...' But that's not all it also give the reason why they says that God is not a man. this is: '...that he should lie;" This is becasue if God is a man then he would not be trustworthy. I've never met any human being that did not tell a lie. But since God is not a man that means that it is possible for Him not to lie. 'neither the son of man' God is also not the son of any man, because: 'that he should repent.' If Gos is a son of man or in other words a man, then He would not be perfect and woudl sin and have to repent. This scripture is defining God's nature in relationship to us. It's not talking about the enture 100% complete history of God. Yep. Gos has always been God and we will never become Him. But we will become like Him. Nope i don't think anyone is upset with you. Just remember a few things: Isaiah 28:10 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Doctrine and Covenants 98:12 12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith. God doesn't want us to understand everything at once. If He did we would probably literally explode. god gives us a little bit at a time. Line upon line our faith is built up. God will give us some information and then see if we can handle it. If we can handle that information He will give us a little more. Slowly over time we will build a knowledge of the Gospel. Don't expectto know everything at the begining, it's impossible. Also remember that it's not a race. Take things at your own pace. God knows what you need. Trust in Him and He will provide. And lastly read God's word. Focus on that. Other books are only there to help us understand God's word. But anything that takes us away from, or distracts us from God's word is not what we should use our time on. IF you focus on His words then He will give you more understanding. Even the prophet doesn't know everything. Have a great day and good luck!

I would suggest that if the President is to solve anything he must get rid of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is the source of most of the major problems we have in modern society. He can try and solve the symptoms all he wants but until he removed this parasite, no real change can be made.

Congratulations!

This is the best quote of the entire topic! In the Celetsial Kingdom we will all have the ability to choose good or evil, but exaltation required that we learn to only choose good. i think the biggest learning and progressing experience will be in the Celetsial Kingdom. This life is just like a basic starter course. In the pre-mortal life we learned the rules of the game. In this life we are learning "Rules of the game, Practical application of." The Celestial Kingdom is where we will actually play the game.

Well if you think about it it wasn't only Satan that when down the wrong path. 1/3 of our spirit brothers and sisters went down the wrong path. That's a pretty big percentage. But even in the Pre-mortal life there still had to be the option of evil. If there was no option of evil then we could only choose good and we would have had no free agency. So evil was possible, it just took Satan's pride to break away. This is the way I imagine it. Lucifer(pre-mortal Satan) admired our Father in Heaven. He knows that our potential is to become like Him. He loves our Heavenly Father but his attitude has a slight mixture of pride in it, maye a bit of jelousy. But not enough of either to be sinning. A council in Heaven is called. Heavenly Father asks for someone to be the Saviour. Jehovah stands and accepts. Lucifer thinks that he can impress God by presenting a plan where all His children can be saved. Obviously the exact mentatlity of Lucifer isn't known. He thinks that an adequate reward would be to be granted all of God's power. God refuses his plan, but because of Lucifer's choice/attitude/etc. and his pride, which increases, he doesn't back down. It's a very tragic, human story. It doesn't require a temptor just the right combination of attitude, choice, mentality, etc. Also we don't know what was exactly said at the council in Heaven. Since God was asking for someone to be a Saviour it was obviosuly explained that we would fall. It would also have been explained that the cause of the fall would have been somebody tempting Adama and Eve. Then that someone would continue to tempt humanity throughout history. Just some thoughts.

Nobody tempted him. He has agency too. He chose the wrong path himself.

I have no problem sharing the things I "earn" under the United Order. Because under the United Order everyone is working their hardest with what they have. It's like what I see around here Not everyone in the neighborhood needs their own boat. Why not just have one neighborhood boat and everyone share it. Everyone contribute to it's maintenance. But until we live under the United Order led by the Lord I have a right to the fruits of my labor.

The teachings of the church about "seeing the other side" are very limited. Most is just speculation. There are a few points of doctrine that have been given. The Spirit World: We believe that everyone who dies their body remains on the Earth an their Spirit moves into a place called the Spirit world. There are two places in the Spirit world, one is the Spirit prison, the other is the Spirit Paradise. The Spirit world is may be defined as Heaven and Hell but it is not what LDS ulitmately define as Heaven and Hell. The Spirit world is a place where spirits wait for the resurection where we will be reunited with our perfected bodies and then be judged by God. Our doctrine also has given us the location of the Spirit world. The location of teh Spirit world is right here on the Earth. The way i describe it is like a TV. The TV is only one location but has different channels. Another point of doctrine is that occasionally Spirits from Paradise may come to us with a special mission. I think that's pretty much all the church has officially said concerning interations between the Spirit world and our world. Now on to my pesonal speculation: I believe it may be possible for people to see the other "channel" of the Spirit world, at least partly. To explain my next point I must also explain some LDS doctrine, so just bear with me. We believe that we all existed as Spirits before this life. We lived with God. We reached the limits of our progression, meaning we learned all that we could and had done all that we could with our limits as spiritual beings. God wanted us to pregess and learn more so God presented a plan for us to gain physical bodies and learn about and experience physical things. God knew that becaue of the nature of physical things that we would do things that would make us unworthy to return to him. there was another Spirit there named Lucifer that presented another plan. In lucifers plan he would force everyone to do good and everyone would return to God. Lucifer wanted a reward for returning everyone to God, He wanted all of God's power. Some spirits liked lucifer's plan and chose to follow him instead of God. God cast out Lucifer and all those who followed Him. Everyone who chose to follow God will come to Earth and gain a physical body. Nobody who followed Lucifer(who became Satan) will ever gain a physical body. But those spirits who followed Lucifer come to the Earth and tempt us or try to trick us. Ok now that that is as clear as mud I will explain my own personal theories. I believe that Satan assignes certain spirits to tempt us. Satan knows us and knows which spirit can tempt us the best. I believe that those spirits become so attached to us and so involved in our lives that they may take on our traits and personalities. They don't become us obviously but they become like us. In their effecrt to weaken us at every turn they get so involved in our lives that they take on our behaviours. So after we die some of these spirits may continue to live out our lives even though we have moved on. They do this because this is what they have been so deeply involved in for about seventy years. This is where I believe hauntings come from. Now i hope I did my job of confusing you more. Well I wasn't trying to confuse you but my explainations do tend to get lengthy.

Those in Spirit Prison are anyone who hasn't recieved the ordinances of baptism, and recieving the gift of the Holy Ghost. They also must have faith in Jesus christ and repent. The restoration Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon are specific to our dispensation. They are not universal. Remember is it not required that a person be a Mormon to enter Heaven. Christ was never a Mormon. But I could understand those born during this dispensationmust learn about Joseph Smith, and the Book of Mormon. Actually I can imagine that there would be, since people will retain their same attitudes and beliefs. I can imagine those spirits who believe the Catholic religion would meet together and worship together. Perhaps some of those would even preach their beliefs.